Going to a Burial

[decentGuy]

I was wondering how many times do Muslim men go to burials these days. Not talking about Namaz-e-Janaza or Quran Khwani, but actually going to the graveyard to lower a dead body into the grave. I went to only one burial in the last 10 years. And that too happened while I was in Pakistan. I realized that I had forgotten so much. For example, I was not even able to open the knot that is used to hold the kafan in place.

So my question is, how many times have you guys been to a burial in last 10 years ?

[krash]

In the part of US I live size of Pakistani community is relatively small so most people do go to burials if a community member passes away. In the last 10 years I can recall going to 5 burials, including one yesterday.

[decentGuy]

In the part of US I live size of Pakistani community is relatively small so most people do go to burials if a community member passes away. In the last 10 years I can recall going to 5 burials, including one yesterday.

That is quite a good number. I have moved so often in the US that I hardly get to know the local community well enough to get such updates. Also, if it's during the week then I would be at work. I've been to only 1 burial in the US, and that too happened more than 10 years ago. When I was living in Pakistan, I used to go to at least 1 burial every 6 months.

[Bobby1]

Unfortunately life expectancy in Pakistan is low, when I was in Uni there, it was common occurrence that we used to go to Janaza several times of year. We still had quite a few aged 50/60 deaths here. I am not sure if itâs genetic or lifestyle out, of my gora friends, fathers in late 80s are still helping out in shoveling renovations
I wonder why life expectancy is so low there, 66
Iran has 76. Maybe waterborne diseases and pollution
They say body strength is an indicator of longevity. I think both genders should lift weights.

[decentGuy]

^^ I think what you are suggesting is a mere illusion. Something we all would like to believe in but isn’t really true. For example, those who've lived around college campuses mostly, may start believing that there are no old people or people don’t age around here, but that is just an illusion, which I came to learn more about after I learned how old people are discriminated against by various housing policies around college campuses.

Similarly, not seeing too many burials is also an illusion because we live in a society that has 99% non-muslims. The expenditure of the cheapest burial is around $10K, not a small amount. An average burial costs around $15K. As a result, more and more non-muslims are getting cremated. I think going to burials is an important reminder of the reality. But since there aren't many opportunities to do so, one could loose touch with reality when in such an environment. Moreover, if we look at death records of our cities we will discover that death while young is far more common than we think it is.

[SID_NY]

Very unfortunately many times in last 10 years.

One of the most dreadful thing in childhood is to visit any freshly deceased person's home. Growing up I found myself in extremely difficulty while trying to find words for condolence so much so that I almost avoided many times. But in last few years my family has suffered very serious losses, some of them were actually very young aged. But yea its very painful every single time.
As of now we've got a very big and tightly coupled community so every other day get to hear about a janaza. I try attending Janaza and thats pretty much it. Unless its very close one, I usually avoid going to burial.
Overall I believe attending these sad yet realistic events do give you a reality check and make you stronger.

[Bobby1]

^^ I think what you are suggesting is a mere illusion. Something we all would like to believe in but isn’t really true. For example, those who've lived around college campuses mostly, may start believing that there are no old people or people don’t age around here, but that is just an illusion, which I came to learn more about after I learned how old people are discriminated against by various housing policies around college campuses.

Similarly, not seeing too many burials is also an illusion because we live in a society that has 99% non-muslims. The expenditure of the cheapest burial is around $10K, not a small amount. An average burial costs around $15K. As a result, more and more non-muslims are getting cremated. I think going to burials is an important reminder of the reality. But since there aren't many opportunities to do so, one could loose touch with reality when in such an environment. Moreover, if we look at death records of our cities we will discover that death while young is far more common than we think it is.

The stat about average longevity in Pakistan at 66 seems correct to me. Do you dispute that stat. Many of my friends were in early twenties when they lost their fathers. Pakistan is a very young population. In Canada if we take out some ethnicities the caucasians have longer life spans than Japan in some affluent communities. In my community see many in their 80s volunteering. I see them even doing laborious volunteer work. I had an older associate and her mother was still living alone in early 90.
The life expectancy stat is readily available on Google.
AH both my parents lived to early 80 however things have changed now with detoriating hygiene and lifestyle.
Anecdotally my first wife father died in low 50, second in Atlanta at 63, her uncles in 50s etc.
I don’t believe in fallacy that you derive lessons by going to burials. If that was the case, why a country where people frequent the burials are the highest in corruption?

[decentGuy]

^^ You’ve made some good points and I have no problem if you see it that way. I do not doubt your numbers either. Reminders and advice are like a medicine, on some people they work on some they don’t.

Then there are some “other factors” too. For example, there are so many reminders and advice on tv, internet, etc. in the US about avoiding things that could land an individual in jail, yet the US has the largest number of people incarcerated. That’s how “other factors” come into play.

Anyway, I think there are 3 places a person should try to visit as much as they can:

1- Prison - hopefully to meet someone incarcerated
2- Graveyard - hopefully to someone else’s burial
3- Hospital - hopefully to attend to someone else admitted

People have sung songs, gave commencement speeches, and have written books about the effects of those 3 places on them. There are such insights one could gain at those places which are hard for me to describe. Not everyone benefits the same though as I mentioned before.

[Bobby1]

^^ You’ve made some good points and I have no problem if you see it that way. I do not doubt your numbers either. Reminders and advice are like a medicine, on some people they work on some they don’t.

Then there are some “other factors” too. For example, there are so many reminders and advice on tv, internet, etc. in the US about avoiding things that could land an individual in jail, yet the US has the largest number of people incarcerated. That’s how “other factors” come into play.

Anyway, I think there are 3 places a person should try to visit as much as they can:

1- Prison - hopefully to meet someone incarcerated
2- Graveyard - hopefully to someone else’s burial
3- Hospital - hopefully to attend to someone else admitted

People have sung songs, gave commencement speeches, and have written books about the effects of those 3 places on them. There are such insights one could gain at those places which are hard for me to describe. Not everyone benefits the same though as I mentioned before.

You are right in a way, my friends father went to visit Pakistan and got dental work done there and contracted hepatitis and passed away here. That burial convinced me to never take a chance for any of my family members to not visit. I have seen so many elderly people not making it back. We always hear nightmare stories and yet people get so excited to visit and don’t learn the lessons.

Yes, visiting hospitals taught me many lessons about smoking, drinking, obesity etc.

My beautiful ex associate had visited the expo where they display preserved dead bodies. They d add how cross sections and stuff snd diseases organs due to drinking, obesity, smoking, inactivity etc, that would be a wonderful place to visit. She was saying westerners have a different relationship with death and are very comfortable talking about it. Eg. they drink, laugh and celebrate the life the deceased person had.

After my friends dads funeral the Molvi lectured about if we had Ibrat, I didn’t like that much as I would have preferred molvi to focus on Jannah and rewards and not on burning till eternity Especially since the deceased was namazzi and hajji and a pious person

[Bobby1]

Also decriminalizing drugs may help the prison numbers go down. When people have no hope and nothing to lose than they are really not scared of committing crimes. USA is a complicated society, I am much happier in Canada where we have better social and welfare system and unemployed don’t need to steal to eat.

[Cashmere]

Not even once.. I think everyone should attend the burial process at least once in life. Helps put a lot of things into perspective.

Bless!

[SID_NY]

Lucky you Cash, lucky you!

[Santiago TheShepherd]

I was wondering how many times do Muslim men go to burials these days. Not talking about Namaz-e-Janaza or Quran Khwani, but actually going to the graveyard to lower a dead body into the grave. I went to only one burial in the last 10 years. And that too happened while I was in Pakistan. I realized that I had forgotten so much. For example, I was not even able to open the knot that is used to hold the kafan in place.

So my question is, how many times have you guys been to a burial in last 10 years ?

That is a very decent thought. In my last 6 years in the US, probably 1 or 2, but before then, I would just attend a janazah every 2 months... One of the things that I really miss about Pakistan is, attending that reminder of the reality of life.