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    Quran - Science - Language of Quran - Science of Interpretation & Alot More

    Just wish this was not done by Moroo. In some of his clips from years ago, he casually spoke so dirty language that his name alone makes you throw up. But Engineer Mirza's talk is enlightening. That's why I have to share this.

    It is need of these times for all the humans of the world but especially muslims to learn arabic language themselves & correctly understand Quran instead of relying on modern certified muftis/molvies/mutawwaas. Majority are misleading the masses as the real knowledge becomes rare. The real knowledge is becoming rare because common muslims have found alot of other worldly engagements to keep them busy than to have time focusing on or learning the true message of God. Prior every home focused on giving their children islam education at home because the parents themselves also had better Islamic knowledge than muftis of today's world.

    If one's not honest in their search of knowledge, then he/she can make a 1000 Interpretations of Quran's verses but none will be correct or accurate because insincerity of the hearts does not allow to see from the noor of almighty & hence mistakes are bound to be made. That is the case of majority muftis today. Alot is lacking.

    Watched only till 30 minutes so far but already feel it must be shared to all the muslims through out the world.

    That's why Hinduism is where it is now. Whatever the message was brought down to their prophets was strictly kept between the pundits of the first order of higher ranks. The common public was not conveyed the correct knowledge, was misled by those pundits for their own interests... to hold on to & retain their 'important' status in the society. They misused the authority & given to them as religious leaders. Are muslims not following the same footsteps ? Making the religion a 'less' important subject only the muftis can/should learn. A common muslim is good to learn/do anything in the world but obtaining true knowledge from the Quran has become such a 'rare', 'outdated', 'unfashionable' thing that majority population is not attracted to gain the wisdom it has to offer.

    The only way to not become a muslim majority following the same footsteps as hindus wrt Muslims religion - Islam, it is important for every individual grom every muslim home to learn arabic & understand the Quran & also teach to their children to enable them to better ressolve any issues faced in their daily lives. No one else can teach us better than our own selves.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1KzH1Rt-k


    May Allah reward engineer Mirza for challenging the widespread jaahil trends in pakistani society that are carried out in the name of islam.

    The link is useful for all muslims and (unbiased, nonhateful, nonextremist) nonmuslims.



    Edit: tried to correct typos. Hope none is left now but am sleepy so ignore if any still not corrected.
    Last edited by SleekDesign; Jun 13, 2022, 10:10 PM.

    #2
    His views about music:

    He probably forgot to mention that most of music have lyrics placing women or the human lovers in general in place of God. Must we not be careful uttering such words that comprise of 'shirk' ? & any music that makes you act upon impulse, make senseless wrong decisions messing up your own or others lives, take you away from the righteous path is all forbidden. It is just like any form of media / any medium is forbidden when MISUSED against the good. But not forbidden when used positively, constructively. Same is the case with music.

    Even more reasons to never marry if husbands/wives have to live like brothers/sisters

    More later...

    Comment


      #3
      I first heard about Engr Ali Mirza a few years ago on GS itself. Since then I’ve formed an opinion about him. Engr Ali Mirza is an amateur. He doesn’t have bad intentions, but he is wrong in believing that mere translation is enough to understand Islam fully.

      At 00:44:00, he says that whenever a person wakes up, that is the time of Fajr for him. That is totally wrong. That is only permitted if the person had made all arrangements to wake up on time for Fajr but still missed by accident.

      At 00:54:00, he is wrong again about music. Music is haram according to the consensus of scholars. I listen to music but do not justify it. No wonder celebrities find Engr Ali Mirza so wonderful.

      At 01:35:20, he is wrong about pictures. Pictures 50 years ago were created very differently, 100 years ago they were created even more differently. Creating a picture the way it was created 100 years ago is still haram. The severity of prohibition decreased due to the methods used in creating pictures.

      Let’s say you have constant pain in your legs, and you pick up and read a textbook on human anatomy. Even if you have an excellent grasp of the English language, still you will not be able to cure yourself. Your pain will have a far greater chance of being cured by a doctor even if his English is not as good as yours. The reason is the process through which a doctor is trained. The process that was refined over hundreds of years. Although differences of opinions among doctors exist, and then we decide based on the opinion having consensus among doctors. Note that consensus does not mean every doctor agrees, it means more doctors agree with a particular opinion..

      Similarly, knowing Arabic alone is not enough to interpret the Quran and Sunnah correctly. A Muslim should strive to learn Arabic for sure, it is the best language to study and understand Islam. But knowing Arabic alone does not mean one is ready to interpret the Quran and Sunnah the way one pleases. Commands in the Quran and Sunnah are not open to interpretation. Many people have come forward with various interpretations from time to time. For example, there were some people who started giving azaan in Urdu and Punjabi because they interpreted the command to give azan that way made more sense. The only correct interpretation of Quran and Sunnah is the one that the prophet (pbuh) taught to his companions (ra), then the companions(ra) taught to their followers, and the followers taught to their followers, and through several generations they reached us with a full chain of verification.

      Preserving that chain of interpretation is the biggest work done through various generations after preservation of the sunnah. Dars-e-Nizami is the process that trains Molvis and Muftis in this discipline. It has been refined over more than 300 years. Just like there are insincere doctors, there are insincere Molvis and Muftis too. But since we still don’t stop going to doctors, we should not stop seeking guidance from Molvis and Muftis either due to some bad apples.

      Comment


        #4
        decentGuy


        1. He is indeed referring to those people who care enough to make niyyat to wake up in fajjr. Slept with that intention but could not wake up. Offcourse, why would people who did not intend to wake up for fajjr would be interested to read fajjr at any other time of the day ?

        Also, people must be informed that during & atleast 15-20 minutes after the sun rise, it is for hidden to pray fajjr. It is in the hadees (I heard it is in bible too) that the sun rises from the horns of satan. If people happen to wake up during those 15-20 mins & rush to pray fajjr then that's wrong. Many people end up doing that because they're not aware of those for hidden 15-20 mins to pray.



        2. Personally, I don't like music. Don't listen to it as it gives me headache. Yeah liked it as a kid/younger adult. It might be forbidden by scholars because of the fitna associated with it in modern world. Most of the music being made either comprises of shirk or it is satanic, violent. It's rare to find good music. & it sure is no comparison with the peaceful frequencies the Quranic recitation brings to hearts.

        But that still does not mean Quran or the prophet prohibited music. He sure prohibited the negatives associated with it. The scholars have also forbidden women from visiting mosques & graves while the prophet pbuh did not. The reasoning of scholars, here also, is the fitna associated with a practice not forbidden by Allah & his prophet pbuh. I know from my mother that during my grandmother's time, women used to visit mosques. Later, it was forbidden due to some fitnas arising. Similarly, visiting graves by women is also not free from fitna in places like Pakistan. So that is the scholars reasoning of forbidding it. If any individual wants to listen to music, any woman visits mosques & graves while at the same time stay free from the negatives associated with it then it is not forbidden. However, women must not visit graves frequently. But still none of the above three practices forbidden by Allah & the prophet pbuh.

        BTW, it is a news to me that celebs find him wonderful. I think people with better commonsense find his take on any subject important. He is many ranks higher in his understanding & explanation of any issues as compared with mufti tariq masood. The later is careless in his choice of words.


        3. Again, the element of fitna associated with making pictures is the reason many scholars took it as haram. The fitna of taking pictures of an important figure of the society as too important, going as far as to worship him/her. When you put any human in place of Allah, that's shirk. So he made it clear, the fitnas involved. If any individual is able to keep those fitna away then all of the the things not forbidden by Allah & the prophet pbuh are not haram on him. Every individual must be aware well about him/herself better. If they're honest, they'll decide to keep away from fitna causing things.


        decentGuy, tell me how much difficult would it have been for almighty to forbid anything through Quran or the prophet pbuh? There are so many other things forbidden so how much difficult would it have been for Allah & the prophet to forbid things which later islamic scholars forbade ? Allah did not & the prophet did not. The wisdom in that is that there are always going to be 'exceptions' in every society, in every country, in every community who do not find the negatives attractive. Individuals who intentionally or unintentionally have the will power to keep the negatives away. Or know when to avoid if it is not in their power to keep the fitna away. That is the wisdom behind certain things not forbidden by Allah & the prophet pbuh themselves. It was not difficult for them to do so.

        When I said people must learn Quran & interpret themselves, I was referring to those who are smart enough to 'accurately' interpret. Also, I always mention the word 'majority' for molvies misguiding the masses. I never said all of them are misguiding. Just like exceptions in everything else, good, wise ulema also exist. Offcourse, there are the wise ones too but not everyone knows who/where they are. And not every one can connect with any of them to get instant answer to any question bothering them about an issue.

        So my suggestion is for all those who realise (feel like a donkey) walking behind a jaahil molvi's fatwaas just because he was 'trained' & was given a certificate to issue any fatwa for the common people. & who fear that following a jaahil molvi may turn him/her away from the religion.

        If you do not find jaahil mullahs' jahalat to be a threat to your belief in islam then you & others like you continue to follow them. Accuracy & detail is very important to me, personally. If I don't have direct access to any such trained islamic scholar with better, sophisticated understanding on islamic issues then I must be able to comprehend any verse / word myself. And there are many people just like me. My post was for those people. The 'DIY' kind.

        I was reading tafseer of surah Rehman some time ago. Ruby (yaqoot) & coral (marjaan) are both red stones. The translation does not mention they're white or red in colour. Just the names. But in the tafseer, ruby stone was mentioned as red while marjaan as 'white'. Maybe the person opting to put up those colours names, when there is no mention of the colours in translation itself, did it because he was impressed with 'white' colour of skin ? I, personally, find natural skin color of any person attractive. Even if I was a man, associating white skin color with 'hoors' in jannah will not attract me 'more' towards them. If there is a type of white coral stone that exists even then stating 'white' as the color of coral stone is retarded because natural organic coral stone is pale red. Ruby is deep red. There is no mention of 'white' in the translation. The person whose interpretation is read by most of world was SURELY impressed by white skin color & hence wrote something not mentioned in the translation.

        Similarly, I found so many more unnecessary additions in tafseer of not only in surah Rehman alone but in so many other places which are not mentioned in the Quranic translation & which entirely change the whole meaning of the actual translation. At times, leaving me to wonder whether those tafseers added in different copies of quran were written by a biased nonmuslim?!

        Similarly, there are so many places I felt some accurate details were needed to understand translation of specific words/verses. But accurate, proper explanation was skipped.

        Yeah we don't stop going to doctors. I do not mean stop checking what molvies say about a certain issue. But if you feel like a donkey following a certain 'bad apple' then must keep yourself equipped with correct knowledge & do not follow those bad apples.
        Last edited by SleekDesign; Jun 14, 2022, 11:11 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          We must remember that interpreting the Quran and Sunnah through generations and developing a robust tradition of interpretation is ultimately a human project

          Comment


          • SleekDesign
            SleekDesign commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes. And all the tafseers are based on the 'mentalities' of the humans writing them. One can easily tell their likes/dislikes through the way they have written those tafseers. There are too many things you'll find which surely have link to those humans' mentalities but have no links with the translation itself. Many times, I re-read after skipping the parts not mentioned in the original translation & I'm blown away by the actual meaning which is so simple. Not at all complicated. Some parts of tafseers make the message not only complicated to understand but also difficult to follow. Some parts make it easier. & some parts make you keep searching the translation & wonder how that context has any link with the original translation.

          #6
          SleekDesign
          You have raised some very good points but we’ll lose the forest for the trees if we delve into the finer points before addressing something more fundamental. If we do not agree on the fundamental point, even our agreement on the finer points will be meaningless.

          The fundamental point is regarding the authority to interpret the Quran and Sunnah. Do you think any human can have more understanding of the Quran and Sunnah than the prophet (pbuh) himself ? Of course, not. Then is it possible for someone in the 21st century to come up with a new interpretation and claim that God forbid, the prophet (pbuh) misunderstood something in the Quran and Sunnah? Of course not as well.

          The Prophet(pbuh) taught the Quran and Sunnah through words and actions to his companions. The interpretation that was taught to the companions is the only correct interpretation. All four Fiqhs (Mālikī, Shāfiʿī, Ḥanafī, and Ḥanbalī) have strived to get closer to that interpretation. Not only the lives of companions were largely documented, but the lives of Tabi'un and Tabi' al-Tabi'in have also been largely documented. People usually only focus on the preservation of the Quran and Sunnah. But huge efforts were made to document the teachings of Tabi'un and Tabi' al-Tabi'in as well. The goal to preserve and document all those teachings all the way from the companions to the Tabi' al-Tabi'in and beyond is to get closer to the only correct interpretation.

          Pakistan is blessed to have institutions like Jamia Binori Town, Wafaq-ul-Madaris, Jamia-tur-Rasheed, Darul Uloom, and more where people have spent their entire lives to review, study and teach the documentation to get even closer to the correct interpretation. Everything that molvis and muftis from these institutions say is backed up by hundreds of years of documentation. People like Engr. Ali Mirza only interprets on the basis of translation of the Quran and Hadees.

          Comment


            #7
            decentGuy

            I'm unable to understand where & how you saw me objecting to the understunding of the Quran by the prophet pbuh ??? I am referring to what the later mullahs/molvies made unlawful which neither the almighty nor the prophet made unlawful ?

            I am objecting to all those additions & subtraction by later 'certified' molvies dividing muslims which were not given by the prophet pbuh. Do you see the difference ? Give me one hadees prophet pbuh said it is okay for one muslim to call the other muslim a 'kafir'for belonging to a different sector ? Give me one (authentic) hadees where the prophet pbuh ordered to kill a person who had insult him ? Why are the muslims claiming to hold so much regard for the prophet pbuh refuse to follow his footsteps ?

            Engineer Ali mirza encourages every muslim to carry out thorough study of the religion. What do you see wrong with it ?

            I also believe every muslim must learn arabic & must be able to understand the translation himself. That does not mean every person must start publishing his translation & the interpretation and distribute among all muslim communities. If that is what you understand from my post then blame yourself. What I'm saying is that every muslim must know atleast that much of islam well to be able to read the Quran, the translation and understand the actual meaning instead of being so inept forcing him to consult the 'bad apple' category of mullahs that end up turning him away from the religion.

            From your post, it seems that those opposing engineer Ali mirza are mostly the ones who want to stick to their respective sectors misguiding muslims.

            The 4 sectors you mentioned:

            Fiqhs (Mālikī, Shāfiʿī, Ḥanafī, and Ḥanbalī)

            Each of the 4 above has further divided into many branches & driven away from the original message. Please visit any Pakistani masjid to know the extent of jahalat they're spreading. It is unbelievable. Original message of islam has no place for that kind of jahalat.

            Although Hanbali is one sector about which I am not aware whether it has many branches. And that sector is basically the most closest to Quran/hadees. It is best to stick with Quran & hadees. Removes any doubts of being misguided by anyone. I'm quite confident, I'll not misguide myself. Although, I cannot trust Pakistanis divided in so many sectors over so many differences created by themselves, not by the prophet pbuh, to not misguide me. I choose the safer option. Thank you.

            I have also found out that there is some white coral stone used mainly in building construction in the west. Maybe the one writing that tafseer only knew about that white coral stone made for construction purposes. I was referring to the naturally produced organic coral gemstone which is pale red in color. Not sure how much natural that white coral made for construction purposes is.

            Comment


              #8
              SleekDesign

              Do you consider Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddique (ra), Hazrat Umer (ra), Hazrat Usman (ra) and Hazrat Ali (ra) as movlis too who came later and added/subtracted things to make lawful things unlawful, and unlawful things lawful? Also, do you think knowledge and piety of the closest companions of the prophet(pbuh) regarding the commands of Islam would be less than anyone alive in the 21st century?

              Don’t get offended, I’m only trying to make a point with an example. Can you cite a reference from the Quran or Hadees which prohibits eating s h i t ? If you cannot cite such a reference, should Muslims consider eating it halal ? Of course not. The point I’m trying to make is that merely using references of Hadees and Quran does not give us the correct interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah. For that we must use the chain of interpretation that has been preserved by the companions, then Tabi'un and then Tabi' al-Tabi'in and so on. That is exactly what the 4 Fiqhs have done, rather than making additions or subtractions to the interpretation. The scholarly consensus within any of the four fiqhs is what one should follow to remain on the right path rather than just relying on translations of Quran and Sunnah to please their desires.

              As far as the two examples you cited of alleged additions/subtractions by molvis. As far as calling someone Kafir is concerned, there are many acts that make a person or group Kafir. If some of those acts are done by a person or group they can be called Kafir. For example Quran 2:88 calls people who curse Islam as Kafirs.

              Second you asked about authentic hadees about the prophet(pbuh) ordering someone to be killed for blasphemy. At the time of the conquest of Makah the prophet (pbuh) forgave everyone except the blasphemers. There are many instances of killing of blasphemers from the time of the prophet(pbuh). Blasphemy is like a disease, if it is not nipped in the bud it spreads in a society like homosexuality, and causes fasaad. One authentic hadees of direct ordering by the prophet (pbuh) is Sahih Bukhari Book 59, Hadith 582. There is again scholarly consensus on the issue among each of the 4 fiqhs.

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by decentGuy View Post
                SleekDesign

                Do you consider Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddique (ra), Hazrat Umer (ra), Hazrat Usman (ra) and Hazrat Ali (ra) as movlis too who came later and added/subtracted things to make lawful things unlawful, and unlawful things lawful? Also, do you think knowledge and piety of the closest companions of the prophet(pbuh) regarding the commands of Islam would be less than anyone alive in the 21st century?

                decentGuy ,

                Quite clearly, you are trying so hard to put words in my mouth which you desire & hope me to say. In your previous post about the prophet pbuh & in your latest post about the companions. You will fail, miserably, just like all the evil schemers. I can clearly see how you're trying so hard to make a brand new case of 'blashphamy' on me. Why do you keep on connecting my words to your own thoughts of what I have said instead of stating what I have 'actually' said ?

                I told you I was objecting to all those additions / subtractions of the later '*specifically* the mullahs of Pakistani origin' that created divisions & uncountable sectors in islam which have divided muslims so much that you find one muslim from one sector calling out the other muslim of another sector a kafir. Read 2nd para of my post # 7 in which I made it clear in the same post. Then why are you so blind to see what I have clearly stated ? Why trying to place your or someone else's words in my mouth which I have neither stated nor believe in ? Whose instructions are you taking ?



                QUOTE=decentGuy;n16704981]

                Don’t get offended, I’m only trying to make a point with an example. Can you cite a reference from the Quran or Hadees which prohibits eating s h i t ? [/QUOTE]


                I'm sure there are people saluting your effed up reasoning of comparing eating **** as an acceptable norm among common humans of the world to justify a 100 & more different sectors in islam & so many other divisions all based on UNIslamic practices. In other words, you are claiming that all the muslims in the world were eating **** after the demise of the prophet pbuh & the companions & or were close to doing that & your most superior pakistani mullahs came to their rescue & saved them by creating so many unislamic practices in the religion including all the sectors, taught them to declare all the muslims of other sectors except their own as kaffirs ? That is why the world must bow down to your Pakistani mullahs for their nobel service to islam ?



                Originally posted by decentGuy View Post


                If you cannot cite such a reference, should Muslims consider eating it halal ? Of course not. The point I’m trying to make is that merely using references of Hadees and Quran does not give us the correct interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah.

                Here, you rejecting the words of the prophet pbuh himself. He said, "O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray."


                Are you rejecting his words because your mullah told you to do so & you give your Pakistani mullah priority over the words of the prophet ? What is going against the words of the prophet pbuh himself if not blasphemy? Should I not accuse you of comitting blasphemy here as all the sectors generated by Pakistani mullahs in pakistan are so fond of doing that against other muslims ?



                Originally posted by decentGuy View Post

                For that we must use the chain of interpretation that has been preserved by the companions, then Tabi'un and then Tabi' al-Tabi'in and so on. That is exactly what the 4 Fiqhs have done, rather than making additions or subtractions to the interpretation. The scholarly consensus within any of the four fiqhs is what one should follow to remain on the right path rather than just relying on translations of Quran and Sunnah to please their desires.

                "...rather than just relying on translations to please their desires...".... which desire do you think me or anyone suggesting that all the born muslims must learn arabic language, read the translation themselves, ponder over the words to understand the correct context rather than taking Islamic wisdom from the bad apply category of Pakistani mullahs ? Do not skip this question. I need to know exactly which 'desires' have you assumed in your noble mind that I, engineer Ali Mirza & many other muslims want to 'please' for encouraging all the muslims to read & research islam to the best of their ability ?

                You also skipped to say why do you think it is so wrong with any muslim suggesting all the muslims must read islam as an essential subject starting from home, learn arabic language & not allow the misguided cursed ones to misguide him/her too ?



                Originally posted by decentGuy View Post

                As far as the two examples you cited of alleged additions/subtractions by molvis. As far as calling someone Kafir is concerned, there are many acts that make a person or group Kafir. If some of those acts are done by a person or group they can be called Kafir. For example Quran 2:88 calls people who curse Islam as Kafirs.


                You again have changed my original words to suit your answer. Let me paste here again from my post # 7: "...
                Give me one hadees prophet pbuh said it is okay for one muslim to call the other muslim a 'kafir' for belonging to a different sector ?" Now read what you have answered.

                I spoke about born muslim of one sector calling the born muslim of another sector a 'kafir'. Are you saying it is okay ? & are you claiming such instances happen because the muslims 'curse' Islam ? Do you claim engineer Ali Mirza to be 'cursing' Islam in his videos ? Because I have seen too many people of other sectors calling him 'kafir'. Would you also claim I am 'cursing' islam because I strongly believe every child born in muslim homes must be taught arabic language, must be given Islamic education just like the modern day conventional education, like muslim children used to be given during earliest days of islam & hence I'm also a 'kafir' ? Do not be offended. I am trying to get to your level of intelligence & understand your motive for replacing my words with yours.




                Originally posted by decentGuy View Post

                Second you asked about authentic hadees about the prophet(pbuh) ordering someone to be killed for blasphemy. At the time of the conquest of Makah the prophet (pbuh) forgave everyone except the blasphemers. There are many instances of killing of blasphemers from the time of the prophet(pbuh). Blasphemy is like a disease, if it is not nipped in the bud it spreads in a society like homosexuality, and causes fasaad. One authentic hadees of direct ordering by the prophet (pbuh) is Sahih Bukhari Book 59, Hadith 582. There is again scholarly consensus on the issue among each of the 4 fiqhs.


                The reference of the hadees you have given: Sahih Bukhari Book 59, Hadith 582' does not exist atleast on the internet. Can you provide a link to the same ? I need to read & research it. It is not possible in this day & age for a Sahih hadees to not be available on the internet. So kindly provide a link where I could read it ?


                Comment


                  #10
                  ^^^ Sure, here is one link. Here is another link.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    decentGuy



                    Both your links are useless because they provide no details on the reasons why that guy Abdullah Bin Khatal was killed. However, through his name, many links came up. One of them:


                    https://islamcompass.com/abdullah-bi...innocent-life/


                    As per this link, that guy was ordered to be killed by the prophet pbuh because he had committed murder of an innocent. Punishment of a murderer in Islamic shariah is murder. & the guy he murder was an innocent slave over such a stupid reason that he didn't cook his meal.

                    Who told you the 'story' that prophet pbuh ordered his murder because he had insulted him ? He was not the only one that insulted the prophet. All the anti-islam nonmuslims of Arabia used to do that. Why would he order murder of only 9 men at the time of conquest of Makkah ? Only 4 of them were killed (NOT for committing blasphemy). Rest were pardoned for different reason:


                    https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...quest-of-mecca

                    Also, that happened on the day of conquest of Makkah. In other words, during the time of war.

                    Are you sure your source of that story is not a kafir source ? Because only Kafirs spread disinformation about Quran, ahadees, islam & islamic history. And all the goons joining foreign sponsored muslim jihadi groups are trained using the same material with false stories.

                    Their sponsors misuse those terror groups to carry out organized crimes in Pakistan against innocent pro-islam, pro-pakistan, patriotic good, educated people, through the similar criminals that manage those groups. The local criminals that manage those groups hide behind the banner of Islam. Exactly what Abdullah Bin Khatal did. He caused treason by hiding behind banner of islam & killed an innocent. He was not killed for insulting the prophet pbuh. Any muslim who uses that story as a justifiable reason to kill muslims & nonmuslims as a 'revange' for 'insulting the prophet's is actually a murderer. Not a jihadi & not a 'shaheed' (if he dies while killing his target). Mumtaz Qadri was not a 'shaheed'. He committed murder of an innocent who had not killed anyone. The prophet pbuh would have ordered his murder too for killing an innocent. Recall all the murders committed of all the innocents in Pakistan that were falsely accused of 'blasphemy'. Masoom logo ko islam k naam py openly qatal kr dia jata hai or koi puchta tk nahi. Esi qom py khuda ka azaab hai tau kya ajeeb baat hai ?

                    I asked for an 'authentic' hadees where the prophet pbuh had ordered to murder someone for insulting him. You have given only this hadees. Turns out the reason of his murder was definitely NOT blasphemy. Any common person with an average IQ can tell.

                    If you have any other 'authentic' hadees from which it is clear that the prophet pbuh ordered to murder anyone as a revenge of his insult then I'll wait for you to share it to discuss further.
                    Last edited by SleekDesign; Jun 15, 2022, 11:04 PM.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      ^^^ That is not true. Relying on Shaikh Google will only lead to such fake stories. Ibn Khatal was killed for blasphemy. Ibn Khatal was a poet and used to recite verses abusing the Prophet (pbuh).

                      Comment


                      • SleekDesign
                        SleekDesign commented
                        Editing a comment
                        It is your story that is 'fake'. I do not use google. Have not used google in more than a decade. Not being able to recognize the truth when it is put up right in front of your eyes is also a form of wrath of Allah. You want to choose falsehood & stick to it by your own choice. That is nothing but wrath of Allah to keep you from choosing the truth over falsehood. Let someone make dua for you. I'm not so generous for the egoistic ones.

                      #13
                      ^^^

                      If you do not have any fear of Allah, which your continued lies & false accusations on me for holding a constructive suggestion I wrote, clearly prove that you do not, then have some fear of Allah & stop LYING in the name of the prophet pbuh & in the name of God.

                      Jaahil people's too many false assumptions about others lead them to that state. In the end, they're left with nothing but to justify their beliefs with falsehood.

                      1. I do not use google

                      2. I asked you to provide your own favourite link for me to read & research you provided only with the prophet pbuh ordering killing of someone with no further details.

                      3. I searched through his name using a different search engine, NOT google & read a few different links before choosing the one with all the minor details.

                      4. Your latest addition to your post about Abdullah Ibn Khatal writing verses to insult the prophet pbuh is also taken from the same link which I provided. But claiming that he was ordered to be killed while completely turning a blind eye that he committed murder of a slave the prophet pbuh sent with him is a complete FALSEHOOD.

                      5. Abdullah Ibn Khatal killed an innocent but refused to admit his sin, repent & face the prophet pbuh. Instead, he sided with Kafirs. You continue to LIE using the name of the prophet pbuh without any remorse. Refuse to admit your sin & repent. How are you going to face prophet in the after life ? Do you really believe you're doing a service to islam ?

                      You were taught 'kafir version' of islam, were told lies about the reason why the prophet pbuh had ordered his murder. Sanctity of life of an innocent was more important to the prophet pbuh than his own self. Are you also rejecting that fact ? You do not have to repent here in this thread online. Unlike you, I'm not fighting this to satisfy my ego. I'm fighting to bring to surface the actual facts because these similar lies associated with Islam for political purposes by anti-islam global mafia to push all muslims into falsehood & then to successfully defeat them, has brought upon all the muslims the wrath of Allah. But ESPECIALLY Pakistani muslims. Because they're the majority muslims who were trained with that material.

                      If you continue to hold on to those false beliefs when Allah has given you the opportunity to see the truth then you are a hypocrite & a liar. & I do not get along with hypocrites & liars.

                      You can continue to present your argument wrt other points in my posts & keep giving me the opportunity to expose more lies associated with islam by the hypocrites. I am already on that global mafia's target list that trains muslims, to fight 'their kafir jihad' for them, through that material written by them. I have nothing to lose so I'll continue to expose the lies infused in islam by them wherever & whenever I find them.


                      Edit:

                      I have edited my earlier post to include this link. I wrote the prophet had ordered killing of 12 men. No, it were 9 people including 2 women. Only 4 of them were killed but rest were pardoned.

                      https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...quest-of-mecca
                      Last edited by SleekDesign; Jun 15, 2022, 11:02 PM.

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                        #14
                        Continuing the analysis of the video conversation of engineer ali Mirza, somewhere during the conversation, he said the only reason any human wants to attain a certain status in life is merely for women, 'sex', etc. ? Either I misunderstood what he meant or he really does not know that it is human nature to work for a better life than he was born with. That is a very natural human trait & all a human wants to do by attaining a superior status whether in terms of honor or wealth is to struggle to provide better for his community, all associated with him. Maybe he was referring to the 'bad apples' of any society that desire women/sex after attaining a desirable state in their community. Or those carrying primitive genes in 2022 ? But with normal humans, it is just to provide better living not only for themselves & their loved ones but all around them & wherever they see in the world.

                        Then there are those who have certain goals. exceptional goals, life purposes for which they were sent to the world. Dunia esy he chalti hai. People with big goals exist to balance out a large number of 'losers' out there. I think he is speaking about those 'losers' of primitive DNA when he says that.

                        He needs to probably talk to more successful people not necessarily from his own circle. Not implying him to be a loser, offcourse not. But he needs to study more in that area that many people than he can imagine have goals different than what he believes. That belief belongs in jaahils of the world. And he is not a jaahil so he must learn / experience more over that subject & update his knowledge.

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