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victorian or islamic morality?

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  • Sahdia77
    replied
    Thanks for sharing. I hear many conflicting stories, some say it's fabricated and Ali (ra) didn't want to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl, others say it's true. Who knows. Ali (ra) didn't marry other females either until his wife passed away. Perhaps his wife didn't want him to marry anyone else during her life, perhaps there were other reasons, who knows.

    All this makes me happy with the choices I've made regarding my own marital status. I'm not interested in a husband who only likes a wife for sex, then indulges in his sexual fantasies by marrying another woman, most males in our times don't take a second wife to help society and help the second wife, in most cases it is only lust or the wish to have a son for example, if the first wife didn't produce a son (for which that same male is actually responsible). I know that most males can't be faithful to 1 female for the rest of their life, I've seen the marriages of so many people around me to realise that this is how most males are. Only a rare male will be happy for decades or perhaps even his entire life with 1 female. Even though most males are hypocrites by demanding that females only stay loyal to 1 male for the rest of their lives. They become angry if the wife initiates a divorce. Females get in a lot of trouble even for important life choices such as marriage.

    Interesting, while females are fighting for their basic rights, males are fighting for acceptance of marrying as often as possible without society making any judgements.

    I want to say, it's nice to share perspectives here. I can't discuss these topics outside of our culture because most people say that every single Pakistani or every single Muslim is like this.

    Leave a comment:


  • decentGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sahdia77 View Post
    The prophet (saww) wasn't happy when the husband of his daughter wanted a second wife.
    I didn't knew about that before reading your comment so had to do some investigation. While what you wrote is true but that point alone misses out on very important details. The perspective 2nd wife was the daughter of Abu Jahl, an enemy of Allah.

    This story does not give the slightest support to those who try to use it to restrict plural marriage. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) dealt with this when he said, in the same story, “and I am not making any permissible thing forbidden, or any forbidden thing permitted.” - Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3110; Muslim, 2449
    For further details check out commentary of scholars and watch:

    Leave a comment:


  • batameez
    replied
    ^ welcome back sahdia

    love reading your posts

    @ post 25

    Leave a comment:


  • Sahdia77
    commented on 's reply
    Yes, females can divorce if their husband is horrible, but social pressures and their angry family members don't always allow that. And even if a female is lucky enough to leave a bad marriage, often her life is still destroyed, especially when she isn't rich. Even well known established females aren't always treated with respect after divorce. A male can divorce as often as he wishes, nobody cares. A female will be called names, people forget that many of the mothers of our ummah were divorced females.

  • Sahdia77
    replied
    This notion, that women in the west are powerful really depends on the kind of family they have. I've seen countless Pakistani (and Indian) women not being treated well here in the west by their own family members. There are thousands of females in western countries, who are not allowed to make their life choices, not even in marriage. Many females in the UK don't come back to school after holidays, being married off even if they didn't want to. In the Netherlands, I see this especially with Turkish girls. I know many more examples from females of different backgrounds and different ages who are forced in a life they don't even want.. The choice females in the west have to make is unfair; be unhappy for the rest of your life, by doing everything your family demands. Or making your own important life choice, which will make their families angry, even if their own choices are not unislamic.

    Yes, there are powerful Muslim females too, fortunately. I'm happy to see them on more and better platforms, but we're not there yet. Lucky are the females who have supportive families. With more examples, I hope more families will stop forcing their females in a life they don't want. There are strong females in Pakistan too. When your own family supports you, no matter where in the world you are, you will be strong and a voice for the rights of other humans.

    And marrying more than 1 female in our age, I don't know. The prophet (saww) wasn't happy when the husband of his daughter wanted a second wife. It is difficult for men to treat all wives equally, so it's understandable. In our times, there are enough males to marry a muslim woman (how sad that many also marry underage girls and a lot of those girls have died because of that), so it's not really necessary. In our culture, a second wife is also often used as blackmail, when the first wife doesn't have children immediately or when she doesn't have a son, only daughters. Even though the male is the one that determines the sex of the child, still the wife is blamed. Depending on how horrible a family is, these things still happen in the west to Muslim females.

    I'm not saying all men with a second wife are horrible. Second marriage is just used in a very problematic way in our culture which has nothing to do with islam anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • Das Reich
    replied
    Originally posted by krash View Post

    Should women have the same choice?
    sure they can divorce husbands one after another but cannot have multiple at the same time

    fine example in sukayna bint Hussain

    Leave a comment:


  • a7mado
    replied
    Originally posted by krash View Post

    This verse is always interpreted as that men must be treat all wives equally - i.e practice justice among the wives.
    But, what about justice between wife and husband? Unless the 2nd marriage is with the freely given consent and approval of the first wife, there exists a situation of injustice between husband and wife.
    Even if the first wife chooses not to leave because of social/financial pressures or because she has invested too much in the relationship she is still being treated unjustly because the husband acted unilaterally and the wife did not consent.

    I believe the above verse prohibits such behavior.
    Exactly. In this age of information that we currently live in, where everyone lives to please themselves, it is very easy to offend and upset someone. Grey areas are becoming more and more black and white.

    These days people get offended if you look at them differently. So, its impossible not to upset women just by the mere thought of being in a polygamous marriage, especially when you state the underlying cause to be that you're too horny and that she cannot satisfy you anymore, which is such a pathetic excuse.

    If you treat women as disposable pleasures, they have every right to not give a f-ck about you, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • krash
    replied
    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post


    why is it so hard to commit ? well you get bored that is why. I mean my fav food is nihari but if i eat it every day I will be very bored of it too
    Should women have the same choice?

    Leave a comment:


  • krash
    replied
    Originally posted by a7mado View Post


    I will quote directly from the word of Allah.

    “but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:3]
    This verse is always interpreted as that men must treat all wives equally - i.e practice justice among the wives.
    But, what about justice between wife and husband? Unless the 2nd marriage is with the freely given consent and approval of the first wife, there exists a situation of injustice between husband and wife.
    Even if the first wife chooses not to leave because of social/financial pressures or because she has invested too much in the relationship she is still being treated unjustly because the husband acted unilaterally and the wife did not consent.

    I believe the above verse prohibits such behavior.
    Last edited by krash; Jun 16, 2021, 09:41 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • a7mado
    replied
    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post

    why should a man commit to one woman when Prophet [saw] has made it halal to marry multiple ones and have slavegirls , plus that is the example of the Sahaba [r.a] and Tab'een [r.a] as well
    Again, it was to limit the number of women you could marry, not an encouragement.

    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post
    Can you name some source that says polygamy was only for a specific time and now its not valid ? or slavery for that matter ?
    First and foremost, sunnah is not fard. Secondly, I did not claim that polygamy was prescribed for a particular period of time. All, I'm saying is that in this day and age, we can never live up to the expectations of other people, let alone deal with them justly.

    I will quote directly from the word of Allah.

    “but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:3]

    We live in an age where personal desires trump all. Considering that, do you think you have what it takes to be just between multiple women that demand your attention? Let's be honest, nobody is man enough to admit that they can't.

    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post
    ofcourse we cannot have slavery in this day and age because of international laws but polygamy can exist so why should it not be practiced?
    Because there is no benefit to doing so. Yes, marrying a widow or an orphan would be considered an act of kindness perhaps, but lets be honest, lets assume you are in your 20's, would you marry a widow who is in her 50's?.

    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post
    why is it so hard to commit ? well you get bored that is why. I mean my fav food is nihari but if i eat it every day I will be very bored of it too
    No offense, but I feel bad for women that marry men with such mentality. Whatever happened to being loyal to one? Why are you using deen as an excuse, if you can't keep your d**k in your pants?

    Leave a comment:


  • Das Reich
    replied
    Originally posted by a7mado View Post

    I do not understand the concept of polygamy, unless it serves a purpose, which in this day and age it doesn't. Remember, 4 wives was a way of trying to limit the number of marriages a man can commit to.

    I can't think of any reasons why a man needs to have more than one wife. Unless, he has parted ways with his first. In which case, everyone deserves a second shot at married life and companionship.

    Why is it so hard to commit to one person and then try to make it work?
    why should a man commit to one woman when Prophet [saw] has made it halal to marry multiple ones and have slavegirls , plus that is the example of the Sahaba [r.a] and Tab'een [r.a] as well

    Can you name some source that says polygamy was only for a specific time and now its not valid ? or slavery for that matter ?

    ofcourse we cannot have slavery in this day and age because of international laws but polygamy can exist so why should it not be practiced?

    why is it so hard to commit ? well you get bored that is why. I mean my fav food is nihari but if i eat it every day I will be very bored of it too

    Leave a comment:


  • a7mado
    replied
    Originally posted by Das Reich View Post
    So I have noticed that there is a lot of pushback and resistance from many religious muslims [both men and women ] against multiple marriages for men

    makes me wonder whether we follow islamic morality in this respect or a victorian pseudoislamic model?
    I do not understand the concept of polygamy, unless it serves a purpose, which in this day and age it doesn't. Remember, 4 wives was a way of trying to limit the number of marriages a man can commit to.

    I can't think of any reasons why a man needs to have more than one wife. Unless, he has parted ways with his first. In which case, everyone deserves a second shot at married life and companionship.

    Why is it so hard to commit to one person and then try to make it work?

    Leave a comment:


  • Obama
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

    Unfortunately we are all to blame, we let the Jahil, Vile, Barbaric paedophiles hijack our religion, religion is not to be taken literally but in what the spirit of guidence was. The spirit should be kindness, goodness, empathy and caring and above all fairness. Islam needed rapid population growth in those times but not anymore.
    Bobby1 Bhai you have a very Mechanical Logic when saying "Islam needed rapid Population growth" That is such an Uneducated statement!.................

    At the time of our Holy Prophet PBUH it was The Prophets personality and his Dawah to All Mankind to join the ranks of Islam!.....during the time in Medina in this period and soon after Fatah Meccah all of Arabia converted to Islam! mind you they were ALL Idol Worshippers and within one generation All became Muslim!

    Even to this day Islam is the Fasted growing religion on our Planet because of Converts or Reverts and not because Muslims have a higher birth rate ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Das Reich
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

    I wouldnt wish it on you, I have two strong, educated, beautiful independent wives and I fantacize about flying off the balcony of my 22 storey condo building. I keep taking chit and smile and do whatever I please lol.
    I hear you I have perfected divorce as a very useful tool, one wife at a time is the best

    Leave a comment:


  • Das Reich
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

    Unfortunately we are all to blame, we let the Jahil, Vile, Barbaric paedophiles hijack our religion, religion is not to be taken literally but in what the spirit of guidence was. The spirit should be kindness, goodness, empathy and caring and above all fairness. Islam needed rapid population growth in those times but not anymore.
    we need negative population trends in many if not most muslim countries
    Our "religious" muslim women in the west are the BIGGEST problem just look at these clowns
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Sarsour
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar
    dangerous rabble rousers and armchair [twitter] terrorists
    we need more sane balanced leaders like this man
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuhdi_Jasser

    Leave a comment:

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