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    Future role of pakistans massive armed forces

    Now army is out of government business and i hope this was last time army ruled pakistan.

    Now question is do we need massive army

    please share your thoughts with us

    #2
    What I personally dislike is the appointment of serving and retd army officials at higher up posts meant for qualified civilians. I really admire Gen. Kiyani for pulling these people out of the jobs meant for civilians. The army's primary job is to focus on the defence of the country, and that should be it. We have multiple fronts where our army is engaged in, so I doubt a downsizing would be in the works.

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      #3
      Originally posted by desi ostrich View Post
      Now army is out of government business and i hope this was last time army ruled pakistan.

      Don't count on it yet, Once the great honest politicians have driven the country down to disaster army has to step in... Without uniforms dunda I am sure ganja and 10% would cut pak right from the middle.

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        #4
        Re: Future role of pakistans massive armed forces

        Army is never out of business...they are always in the background...civilinan governments know that well...
        The art of entering into Nothingness.

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          #5
          1. Correction! Our army is not massive. It is just below 500,000 active duty soldiers and officers. For a country as large as 175 million people, and very hostile neighborhood, we need more and not less. We should have additional 500,000 trained soldiers and officers.

          2. Army's overt intervention in civil politics is bad very bad both for the civilians and the military. This must stop. It will take strong resolve by both civilian and military folks to keep the civilians at the top of the government.

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            #6
            Re: Future role of pakistans massive armed forces

            thanks for comments

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              #7
              Re: Future role of pakistans massive armed forces

              Pak Army is about 1.1 millions including regular/standing troops and paramilitary forces like rangers, FC, etc. It is of course a massive army lfor a small country with a very week economy and is lik a white elephant consuming most of the revenue generated by the state with less left for human development...

              Russia which is so big and with such massive resources that it is said about it that sun never sits on Russia...and that is factually correct...when sun rises in Moscow, it sits Viladivosk...still Russia has just 0.6 millions army....

              Countries with huge economies have small effective armies...so pakistan army should be re-sized and ethnically diversified bringing in more Baluchis, Sindhis, pashtuns, Muhajirs, so it is not dominated by one province and doesn't interfere with democratic process...
              Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Nov 23, 2008, 10:08 PM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by desi ostrich View Post
                Now army is out of government business and i hope this was last time army ruled pakistan.

                Now question is do we need massive army

                please share your thoughts with us
                Are you suggesting number (strength) of Pakistan army is too high and since it is out of politics we need to cut down? Honestly share the info, what you ate/drank when you posted?

                Just by Pakistan army exiting politics Afghanistan, India, Iran, Russia do not disappear from the map.
                saaray Pakistan ka ek hi naara: ehtasab ehtasab!

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by LastOfTheDinosaurs View Post
                  Pak Army is about 1.1 millions including regular/standing troops and paramilitary forces like rangers, FC, etc. It is of course a massive army for a small country with a very week economy and is lik a white elephant consuming most of the revenue generated by the state with less left for human development...

                  Russia which is so big and with such massive resources that it is said about it that sun never sits on Russia...and that is factually correct...when sun rises in Moscow, it sits Viladivosk...still Russia has just 0.6 millions army....

                  Countries with huge economies have small effective armies...so pakistan army should be re-sized and ethnically diversified bringing in more Baluchis, Sindhis, pashtuns, Muhajirs, so it is not dominated by one province and doesn't interfere with democratic process...

                  its not always right to compare army with population, russia and Us may have less army as they compensate this with weapons and equipment they have at hand.

                  with army compared to next door neighbour, its not possible to cut arms forces to very low levels. its possible when india cuts its army size, but .7 million is alwasy deployed in Kashmir only.


                  Army is dominated by Punjab and NWFP, first Punjabis are more than 50% of the total population anyway so bound to have more numbers in everywhere.

                  btw , the apart from zia ul haq, other two major dictators were Ayub and Musharraf were not from Punjab!

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                    #10
                    Re: Future role of pakistans massive armed forces

                    Pakistan's army is not massive enough, given that there is a neighbouring country with a 2.5 million storng army that claims ownership of land under Pakistani control.

                    If you downsize a 1.1 million strong army (including reserves), how could it discourage attack from a 2.5 million strong force ?

                    Until the Kashmir dispute is settled, a large army is needed. Once the cause of military tension is removed though, of course Pakistan should make a dramatic cut in its armed forces.

                    Though not too dramatic, of course. History shows that the point at which a country realises it cut its military too much is usually the point at which it struggles to defend itself.

                    You have to always have a large enough army to deal with the threat that you never saw coming. Britain and France learned that in 1939, Russia and the USA learnt it in 1941, and many other examples through to even 1982 when Britain relearnt it in the Falklands war.
                    Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                    Al-Ghazali

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by LastOfTheDinosaurs View Post
                      Pak Army is about 1.1 millions........
                      That's a joke. There is a big difference between combat ready troops and the registered numbers. Combat ready means you have the food, fuel, ammo, and above all "Training".

                      Pakistan cannot deploy more than 25~30 fully equipped divisions if needed at this very moment. That means 250,000 to 300,000 combat ready troops. While India can deploy at least double that number.

                      Even if we an maintain some kind of deterrence with India, our problems are much more than India and they have always been.

                      Recent events have clearly shown that a very large number of Pasthun Khasadars and FC soldiers are poorly trained and badly equipped. And that's the main reason we have hundred of Pashtun soldiers being kidnapped by primitive tribals.

                      I mean it is a shame that Khasadars and FC men are so pathetic that they get roped in like little goats and cows.

                      That's why we ended up deploying regular soldiers in many places.


                      Originally posted by LastOfTheDinosaurs View Post
                      ......small country with a very week economy
                      .
                      This is the lamest argument one can ever see. Our economy became weak when we started having law and order problem. Far too many times we have sought political solutions to law and order problems.

                      Our areas in southern Punjab, FATA, and Karachi have become ganglands because our police, paramilitary, and army are not enough for 170, 000, 000 population that is about to reach 200, 000,000 soon.

                      What's the major difference between Karachi and Dubai? Law and order problems. Dubai police crushes any decent even if it is from Islamists. We on the other hand have used hands off approach in Karachi and thus given green signal to Bhatta Khors and terrorists of all hues and colors.

                      What is the difference between Mugadeshu and Kabul? Nill. Both the areas are under foreign occupation and their economies are like the cesspool of human waste. Why? Because they do not have a central authority that provides protection against the thugs and the gangs.

                      And your second point about Pakistan being a small country is a joke too.

                      Anyone who says Pakistan is a small country is living in dark basement with no sunlight and no fresh air. Providing safety and security to a population of 170,000,000 is non-trivial.

                      Look at what happened to afghanistan. Being primitive tribals they never realized the need of strong central army and regional police system. And guess what their mayor of Kabul needs gora gaurds and Afghans are too impotent to defend even their own president.

                      Afghan economy is in the gutter precisely because they destroyed their own army and police system.

                      So anyone who follows Afghans will become poorer and more destitute than you and I can even imagine. And if you don't want to learn from Afghanis, then at least learn something from Afghani's tribal cousins the primitive beings from Africa. From Siera leon to liberia to Somalia, you see the same self destruction that's a ditto copy of Afghanistan.

                      Like AIDS disease, these primitive tribals destroy their own army, their own police, and in the process they destroy their own selves.


                      Learn Khan badshaho learn, before you make yet another Afghani jannat in the middle of FATA. Learn before it is too late.








                      Originally posted by LastOfTheDinosaurs View Post
                      ......
                      Russia which is so big and with such massive resources .....
                      Read about Russian army before giving us pathetic example. Only Neo-Islamists and Neo-communists would use Russian examples. Hahahah

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