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Pakhtunkhwa!

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  • Zakk
    replied
    Zaavia is quotiung something quite true, but there is a difference between being of pashtun ancestry and being pashtun. Punjabi is defined according to language not ethnicity.

    Areas liks Khanewal and tribes from Nawabzada Nasrullah's, or in places like in Attock and Mianwali many people are of pashtun origin. Some still speak pashto as well, my Uncle was posted in Kasur and there is a fairly large concentration of pashtuns of Muhammadzai origin, many have gradually lost their langauge, and would refer to themselves as "Pathan" or "Afghans"

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  • zaavia
    replied
    Originally posted by Yemeen:


    As far as non-Punjabis living in Punjab, I have yet to meet a Pakhtun-Punjabi or a Sindhi-Punjabi.
    Yemeen, of course I wont mind you joining the discussion. I started this thread to get an idea of what the Pakhtuns say on this issue. As far as Punjabi Pakhtuns are present, there are many pakhtuns in the Seraiki belt, who are Pakhtuns and write Khans also with their names, but they wont say that they are Pakhtuns. I have met a couple of people in Lahore too, who are Kakkay Zai and some other tribe, but their grand fathers settled in Punjab 3-4 hundred years ago, so now they consider themselves as Punjabis. But if a Punjabi or some other ethnicity lives in Pakhtunkhwa even for a thousand years, will they be called Pakhtuns?



    [This message has been edited by zaavia (edited July 11, 2002).]

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  • Adnan Ahmed
    replied
    Originally posted by fakeer:
    the name was AFGHANISTAN.
    it was
    Yeah but even areas within Afghanistan have their own names..Paktia province etc etc. I would think that a place as distinct as NWFP which is seperated from Afghanistan my a huge chain of mountians would have had a name to distinguish itself.

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  • Spock
    replied
    Why should the province be renamed after one ethnic group in the first place? This is discrminating to the others. If it all we need to change the name of this province, it should be changed to 'Khyber', after a historical and a landmark pass.

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  • fakeer
    replied
    nwfp for sarhad

    wsfp for balochistan

    sefp for panjab

    swfp for sindh.

    go figure out yourself wat it means.
    these shud be names for all provinces pak has.


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  • fakeer
    replied
    Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
    What did the locals call NWFP before the British named it that??? The locals must have had a name from it.
    the name was AFGHANISTAN.
    it was

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  • Yemeen
    replied
    Salaam Zaavia, you donít mind if I join do you?

    The term Pakhtunkhwa was used by the 16th century poet Khushal Khan Khattak towards this land (NWFP) and Afghanistan in his poems. Before there was any significant amount of influence by any other group in this area, this area belonged to only one group of people, and that group of people was and is called the Pakhtuns. So far the only people asking for the name change are Pakhtuns, so others donít even come in the picture. If today we vote on names, the likelihood of the name Pakhtunkhwa getting most of the votes is higher then any other name because most of the people living in this area happen to be Pakhtuns.

    As far as non-Punjabis living in Punjab, I have yet to meet a Pakhtun-Punjabi or a Sindhi-Punjabi. You might get these types when intermarriages occur, but so far all the non-Punjabis that I have met who are born and lived in Punjab have instantly told me what their actual backgrounds are. I have yet to meet a Sindhi from Punjab calling himself a Punjabi, and I have yet to meet a Muhajir from Punjab who class his/herself Punjabi. So that point doesnít hold any water. But if thatís the case, since we should care about our brotherly neighbor and countrymen, we should remove the ISLAMIC part from Pakistans identity since we have Hinds, Sikhs and Christians living with us. If we have to be fair, then lets be that to the fullest. No games.



    [This message has been edited by Yemeen (edited July 10, 2002).]

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  • Spock
    replied
    Khyber is a good name...

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  • Adnan Ahmed
    replied
    What did the locals call NWFP before the British named it that??? The locals must have had a name from it.

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  • zaavia
    replied
    I think that this issue should be resolved and for that the government should create a consensus. I am not sure, what implications the dual nationality issue will create, at the moment too, because of the rugged terrain, I dont think any one can stop the Afghan or Pakistani pashtuns from crossing the border, into each other's territory.

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  • Zakk
    replied
    I dont agree with the Pakhtunkhwa argument Zaavia, I am just stating the arguet people have stated.

    Interetingly there are many prominent leaders from Hazara who would not object to the province being called Afghania, while Pakistan may have had a dispute with the old Afghani government, things are very different, renaming it Afghania and ensuring things like dual nationality for FATA tribes and some free trade agreement you will see that whole issue disappear. Pashtuns have gained more out of Pakistan then they ever will in Afghanistan economically and politically, but when rights are trampled on, no self respecting person from any group doesn't stand up to be counted.

    Let us hope this issue is resolved amicably and we move on to more pressing issues. Politcs in the end is like a conveyer belt, when one issue gets stuck because of stubborness, all the rest get stuck behind it.

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  • zaavia
    replied
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Zakk:
    The argument to take into account Kohistani, Seraiki and Hindko speaking people into account when renaming is flawed, after all Baluchistan,Sind and Punjab are not dominated by the people the Province is named after, so why should Pashtuns compromise using that argument?


    Zakk, as far as Punjab is concerned, as I mentioned above that, Punjabi isnt some ethnicity. Any one, even a Pashtun or Baloch living in Punjab are Punjabis. And the name of Punjab is very old, as far as the position of NWFP is considered while renaming it, if its name is converted to Pashtunkhwa, it would completely alienate Hazaras and others from it. Therefore before renaming it the situation should be evaluated well.

    In the end though it's the peoples choice that matters, and I believe the people of the Province should be allowed to choose, either by a referendum or through their representatives. It is not a big issue, and it has only been made a big issue because
    the right to rename has been denied.


    I agree with you on this one, that the people be allowed to choose the name by referendum as this name, which is the legacy of British is still continuing to be with us, although its 54 years since they left.

    [This message has been edited by zaavia (edited July 10, 2002).]

    [This message has been edited by zaavia (edited July 10, 2002).]

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  • Zakk
    replied
    Than you for the compliment Zaavia

    I believe, there are several different opinions on the renaming NWFP pakhtunkhwa

    1) Originally the Muslim League supported the renaming as part of it's alliance with ANP, Nawaz Sharif was actually in favour of renaming the Province Pakhtunistan, something which the ANP declined to agree, citing that people would think they are seceding from the country.

    2) The argument to take into account Kohistani, Seraiki and Hindko speaking people into account when renaming is flawed, after all Baluchistan,Sind and Punjab are not dominated by the people the Province is named after, so why should Pashtuns compromise using that argument?

    3) Despite the argument in (2) above, I believe moderation is the key, there are several sides to this, one is Pakhtun is a word used by only certain groups, the proper word is pashtun. Khwa is considered an abuse in some langauges, so I dont like that either

    4) Dont care for Gandhara either, Sarhad aint a museum lol!


    My person favourite is Afghania, the letter A in Pakistan stands for Afghania, and people from hazara have no objection to that word.

    In the end though it's the peoples choice that matters, and I believe the people of the Province should be allowed to choose, either by a referendum or through their representatives. It is not a big issue, and it has only been made a big issue because
    the right to rename has been denied.

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  • zaavia
    replied
    Yeah actually, I think Gandhar or Gandhara province would be a very good name, as it represents the history of that province.

    [This message has been edited by zaavia (edited July 10, 2002).]

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  • Adnan Ahmed
    replied
    I have always liked the name Gandhar province. It gives people a sense of history, a place you would want to visit. Tourists would love visiting the Buddhist capital of "Gandhar" province. Think about it.
    But if you want to use nameS that reflect the province in terms of geography or topography etc... Then I suppose the best name would by the Kyber province.. Five rivers of Punjab, Indus of Sindh and the great Kyber pass for "NWFP."

    [This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited July 10, 2002).]

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