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    military government?

    I have always been in favour of musharaf but many people have not been. I have no intention to say that these people are wrong as every 1 is entitled to their own opinion. After listening to mushraf's speech that he made before the referendum...after knowing all the facts and figures..and the improvement that pakistan has made since hes arrived I was completely in favour of his vote. However, to my knowledge people do not think that a military government is good for pakistan. My question therfore is WHY??..If pakistan works better under a military government then why noT??..I wuld be greatful to hear peoples views on WHY they do or Dont support military governments...let me inform you though that pakistan has made a lot more improvement under military governments, in my opinion, than it has under democratic ones. What do people think about this statement?

    #2
    Originally posted by pkfan:
    I have always been in favour of musharaf but many people have not been. I have no intention to say that these people are wrong as every 1 is entitled to their own opinion. After listening to mushraf's speech that he made before the referendum...after knowing all the facts and figures..and the improvement that pakistan has made since hes arrived I was completely in favour of his vote. However, to my knowledge people do not think that a military government is good for pakistan. My question therfore is WHY??..If pakistan works better under a military government then why noT??..I wuld be greatful to hear peoples views on WHY they do or Dont support military governments...let me inform you though that pakistan has made a lot more improvement under military governments, in my opinion, than it has under democratic ones. What do people think about this statement?
    Agreed Man!

    Armymen In Civil Depts Asked To Report To GHQ
    http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/today/main/top14.htm

    ISLAMABAD (NNI) – The Chief Executive Secretariat Friday directed all the military personnel including the star officers working with the civilian departments since October 1999 and otherwise to immediately report to the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi for further orders.

    The notification has been issued in the wake of the threats and prevailing tense situation at the common borders with India and also keeping in view the threats of the leadership in New Delhi, the official in the CE Secretariat revealed to NNI.

    “All the military officials ranking from Major General and down, working with the civilian departments since October 1999 and otherwise should immediately report to the GHQ, Rawalpindi for further orders,” the source referred the notification issued from the CE Secretariat.

    It would be pertinent to mention that General Pervez Musharraf has been serving the four major positions including President, Chief Executive, Defense Minister and Chief of the Army Staff.

    Although General Muhammad Yousuf Khan, Vice Chief of the Army Staff, has been serving in a wonderful manner on behalf of the COAS. But General Musharraf himself is taking care as the Commander of the Pakistan Army, especially since December last, when India deployed its many hundred thousands troops at the war time locations at the common borders with Pakistan.

    “All the uniformed officials including NCOs, JCOs and top level from Lieutenant to Major General, have been directed to report immediately as the military command need them to be posted in the wake of the threats of the Indian leadership,” the source said

    Long Live Pakistan

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      #3
      hey thanks for sending in a link..its a shame other people didnt reply to atleast appreciate or if not argue against the point tht I was making...
      thanks a lot for ur reply...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by pkfan:
        hey thanks for sending in a link..its a shame other people didnt reply to atleast appreciate or if not argue against the point tht I was making...
        thanks a lot for ur reply...
        Any Time Dear

        Long Live Pakistan

        Comment


          #5
          Under the circumstances Mushrraf is the best choice we have.

          Comment


            #6
            I understand your sentament that Military has performed overall better then the civilians.....excluding yahya khan ofcourse... but there has to be a separation of military and gov't......we have to evolove a democratic method whereby a good and ohnest leader can be chosen...this is how most modern nations are...and we have to live in this world and improve our economy..and having a civlian structure helps

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              #7
              Originally posted by Bhadsha:
              I understand your sentament that Military has performed overall better then the civilians.....excluding yahya khan ofcourse... but there has to be a separation of military and gov't......we have to evolove a democratic method whereby a good and ohnest leader can be chosen...this is how most modern nations are...and we have to live in this world and improve our economy..and having a civlian structure helps
              I think ppl in pakistan r confusing MODERNISATION with WESTERNISATION....just because the western countries at the moment are working better with democratic governments it does not mean that we should as well. I think if we cant choose and hones leader for our country than who is better rather than our military...the military who loves pakistan adn fights for pakistan.
              At the moment in pakistan people are wearing western clothes, acting like westerners, doing evrything they can to b more wester because they think this is MODERNISATION...well its not, bcause they are two completely different words. If pakistan wants to be a modern country then it should first figure out which government it can work best with...so far it has been a military government that has been in favpur of pakistas modernisation, pakistanis should not compare themselves with what goes on in the west to become modern they should firstly see their own flaws and fix those and then try to pick up other positive things like the west.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Abdali:
                Under the circumstances Mushrraf is the best choice we have.
                Best Best Ever Man!

                Long Live Pakistan

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by pkfan:
                  I think ppl in pakistan r confusing MODERNISATION with WESTERNISATION....just because the western countries at the moment are working better with democratic governments it does not mean that we should as well. I think if we cant choose and hones leader for our country than who is better rather than our military...the military who loves pakistan adn fights for pakistan.
                  At the moment in pakistan people are wearing western clothes, acting like westerners, doing evrything they can to b more wester because they think this is MODERNISATION...well its not, bcause they are two completely different words. If pakistan wants to be a modern country then it should first figure out which government it can work best with...so far it has been a military government that has been in favpur of pakistas modernisation, pakistanis should not compare themselves with what goes on in the west to become modern they should firstly see their own flaws and fix those and then try to pick up other positive things like the west.
                  You The Man!

                  Long Live Pakistan

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Why democracy!!

                    The British because of their own pragmatic experience in Britain and later in former colonial areas like Canada and India developed an institutional approach by the phrase “progressive realization of responsible government”. This phrase appeared first in India and came out of documents and statements associated with the Government of India Act of 1919.

                    The American approach to democracy is best defined in terms like those of Lincoln when he referred to “government of the people, by the people and for the people”. The American Declaration of Independence of 1776 was even more specific and made it clear that the purpose of all governments is to secure “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. And, if the government fails to promote these natural rights then the people can alter or overthrow it.

                    The Islamic approach is basically moral and spiritual as stated in the Qur’an. In chapter 80, the Qur’an makes it clear that the common man, however poor or disabled he may be, has a right to ask questions about his concerns even to the Holy Prophet.
                    In addition, the Qur’an emphasized the institution of shura (consultative councils) at all levels of society.

                    Living and living with dignity are two different things.. role of army is clearly defined in Constitution and that is to defend external threats though its primary goal has been to conquer its own country

                    Superimposition of the military on vital aspects of civil and political life over the decades has stripped civilian authority of even its basic functions. Look at federal or provincial administrations, universities, examination boards, public utility corporations, state research institutions, the military has gradually taken over in the name of promoting accountability and reducing corruption. Militarisation is not just limited to the public sector - name a vital sector of the economy and the military runs it tax free, clearly undermining any chances of fair competition, besides crowding out scarce investment resources required for private sector development.

                    The military’s unquestioned dominance of state affairs coupled with its holy cow public image allows it to act the untainted
                    angel while holding its civilian counterparts accountable for their actions.
                    Under the Musharaf military regime’s much touted accountability process, civil officials and anti-military politicians are hauled up in the name of fair account- ability while military officers are excluded under the convenient pretext of existing stringent internal accountability mechanisms.

                    - how many army men were charged in 1983 civilian massacre in Sindh in MRD movement ?
                    - how many were brought to justice in 1988 Ojri Camp debacle.. when missiles and rockets were flying all over Pindi/Islamabad killing and terrorizing common people?

                    And what you say about progress? Getting $$$ in Afghan war or getting some money for aiding US after 9/11 is not progress.. when basic rights are taken away from people its not progess but a mockery in front of the whole world.. if democracy is such a curse why Musharaf is pledging it? Political struggle against oppresion by peopel of Pakistan against dictators in past decades has been the hallmark of courage of people..while few supported tyranny its encouraging that most have favored free will..




                    [This message has been edited by Degas (edited May 19, 2002).]
                    Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The point is not not how the army has effected the field of education, transport, etc. The point is that the Army's OVERALL performance considering the past and the present situation has caused pakistan to improve in many fields.For xample, pakistan is not in as much debt as it was during democratic government. When nawaz sharif launched karz utaaro mulk savaaro scheme even the poorest people in pakistan gave whatever they could to support this strategy of payig off debts for a brighter future. But not EVERY rupee, penny, dollar, etc went towards paying off the debt, if it did it would have given a better result in the end. I ask where did tht money go?...No one could question the prime minister, mr.sharif. Now however pakistan has paid off 1/3 of its debts in the only time that mushraf has been the leader...there has been no scheme and yet the debts being paid at a fast rate..WHY?...because the leader MASHALLAH is sincere. Also pakistan's stock exchange at the moment is one of the best in the world. This is a massive improvement as it had nearly gone down the drain at the time mushraf came into power. Lets also take ZIA into consideration. he by far has been one of the most influential leaers in the improvement of pakistans economic situation and its relaion to other countries in terms of freedom. I therfore think that Military government is better for pakistan as THE COMMON people of pakistan do not suffer. EVERYONE IS TREATED EQUALLY. Under democratic governments however the difference between the rich and the poor in the rural and the Urban areas is far more obveous.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger:
                        You The Man!

                        Long Live Pakistan
                        waisai pakistani tiger tahnks a lot for supporting me withmy opinions glad to know u agree...
                        Also waisai im not a man..


                        ------------------
                        If they shall take away my pen i shall not cry for i have dipped my fingers in the blood of my heart

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by pkfan:
                          . Under democratic governments however the difference between the rich and the poor in the rural and the Urban areas is far more obveous.
                          .. during Zia's 11 years moral decadance of our society was at peak.. with drug mafia virually taking over the country.. arms smuggling and the worse Afghan policy led to Pakistan's bleak position..
                          ..though hands were cut off poor people and they were flogged all over country how many rich people were brought to justice?
                          During democracy however: meak in case of pakistan at least some developmental works are done.. plus with democracy we know whats going wrong but dictators holy cows can never be questioned..Zia tyranical rule was sretchede with the start of Afghan war and $$ poured for years gave false impression that country was progressing. In the end it left few people dirty rich while poor suffered even more..
                          And above all dictators can never lead the country to progress and glory.. they only bring shame and bad name to country!
                          Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            can I just ask you a question befoe I continue my argmnt...ARE YOU FROM A RICH, MIDDLE CLASS, OR POOR FAMILY?...DO YOU HAVE A POLITICAL BACKGROUN?...sorry if my questions sound offensive I don't mean for them to in any way...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by pkfan:
                              I think ppl in pakistan r confusing MODERNISATION with WESTERNISATION....just because the western countries at the moment are working better with democratic governments it does not mean that we should as well. I think if we cant choose and hones leader for our country than who is better rather than our military...the military who loves pakistan adn fights for pakistan.
                              At the moment in pakistan people are wearing western clothes, acting like westerners, doing evrything they can to b more wester because they think this is MODERNISATION...well its not, bcause they are two completely different words. If pakistan wants to be a modern country then it should first figure out which government it can work best with...so far it has been a military government that has been in favpur of pakistas modernisation, pakistanis should not compare themselves with what goes on in the west to become modern they should firstly see their own flaws and fix those and then try to pick up other positive things like the west.

                              I would agree with this if the Army was actually doing a better job. But with prices of staples rising ever since Mush came in, with development spending the lowest ever,etc. it is just not true.

                              Of course I don't even have to talk about the huge damage the Army under Zia did to Pak.

                              Not that we can question the Army, they have ZERO accountability to the people of Pak so we never know the real story about how much money they are making, buts its not for nothing Corps Commanders are nicknamed 'crore commanders'!

                              PS. I am a lower/middle class Pakistani with no affiliation to any past or present ruler.


                              [This message has been edited by RealDeal (edited May 19, 2002).]

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