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    Who do you think is behind the Karachi Bomb Attack

    http://www.paknews.com/voting_result.php?id=79

    How come opposite:
    RAW scored 44%
    Al-Qaeda. 47%
    May be Administrator are not aware about this figure. Anyway.
    Dated on 11/05/2002.


    ------------------
    Fight for Justice

    #2
    I forone belive we shouldn't fall into the India trap...which is blame everything on ISI.....first let the police come up with some proof then lay the blame....

    ------------------
    "Zindagi mein to sabhi pyar kiya karte hain.....meri jaan mein to maar kar be tumhe chahoon ga"

    Comment


      #3
      What does the ISI have to do with this..even if ISI is the big bad wolf of the country (someone needs to explain to me this whole ISI issue in detail someday)...what would they get out of a terrorist attack in Karachi,and that too on Frenchies helping us out with our defense issues?

      Hmmm...maybe the Indians were sponsoring Al Qaeda....

      I'm sorry, had to pop this one in this post!

      Can u imagine...OBL shaking hands behind closed doors with VJP! ROTFL
      I believe in dragons, good men, and other fantasy creatures.

      Comment


        #4
        I would list 4 options.

        1. Mossad
        2. RAW
        3. Al-Qaeda
        4. A local loony

        ------------------
        I’m just a freedom fighter
        No remorse
        Raging on in holy war
        Soon there’ll come a day
        When you’re face to face with me
        You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

        Comment


          #5
          what is Mossad CM.. sorry never heard about him.. ???

          ------------------
          Zindagi khail hia
          Khail main agar choot lag jayee to roona kaisa,
          Kuch na payee to schakayat kaisi,
          Aur jo kuch paya hia ose khoona kaisa

          Comment


            #6
            Mossad is the Israeli secret service. The best in the world. On average they have around 70 to 80 spy's total. However due to the vast and wide spread jewish diaspora, they don't need anymore. They are the best at what they do. Sabotage, assassination, espionage etc. There is one book out on the Mossad, it got published, yet i have never seen it in a book store. It was written by a former Mossad agent. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the book.

            Also there is an author who has written novels about the mossad as well. One of the best examples of a Mossad agent, is the story of the 1967 war and how the Syrians lost the Golan heights. A mossad agent, inflitrated the Syrian high command, got all the top secret information and location of weapons on the golan heights and heck was best friends with the Syrian commander incharge of the operation. He was found out only after the war had started. There is an excellent movie on this story. Again i can't remember the name of the agent (who is dead and buried in Syria) or the name of the book or movie. I suck at names. Oh well.

            Edit: Here is a link from Amazon, notice how many books are out of print. Now my IP i bet is being scaned by the CIA or something.
            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...429811-1252855


            ------------------
            I’m just a freedom fighter
            No remorse
            Raging on in holy war
            Soon there’ll come a day
            When you’re face to face with me


            [This message has been edited by CM (edited May 14, 2002).]
            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by CM:
              I would list 4 options.

              1. Mossad
              2. RAW
              3. Al-Qaeda
              4. A local loony

              CM is your list is true in order of preference also or a random one.

              Comment


                #8
                Absolutely random.

                ------------------
                I’m just a freedom fighter
                No remorse
                Raging on in holy war
                Soon there’ll come a day
                When you’re face to face with me
                You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                Comment


                  #9
                  So did I believe. But, if it is a local, you cannot simply get away calling him a loony. There must be reasons, esp. for a suicide bombing. Let us see, it could be that some people in Pakistan are not happy with the way General is running the country and seeing that they have no way left to give vent to their grievance, go for such extreme step. What do you say?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Frankly i hold most fundo groups in Pakistan to be loony. Crazy idiots who don't have an iota of intelligence. Firstly killing those frenches hurt our chances in future military development. How is that not helping India and Israel? Second since when are frenches our enemies. Wait its because they are white. I get it, it is ego thing. The fundos aren't gora enough, so they take out their frustrations on gorays. Also if you are upset with the govt, you attack frenchies? That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

                    ------------------
                    I’m just a freedom fighter
                    No remorse
                    Raging on in holy war
                    Soon there’ll come a day
                    When you’re face to face with me
                    You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The Karachi blast emphasised with defeaning effect is Musharraf's underlying weakness in his need for a popular endorsement. This, on the other hand, also reveals that Pakistan is now the world's best known haven for terrorists from Taliban, Al Qaeda and home-grown extremists. And as you said, it is goin to harm India more as now Musharraf will find himself constrained in exercising the traditional Pakistani method of venting steam - declaring open season on India by terrorists.

                      From Fundo point of view, it is logical to attack goray, as it is an attack on Musharraf indirectly. What fundos can't do themselves, they will make the western powers do for them, i.e. push Musharraf out of job.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Has to be some very stressed out anti-pakistani element... This leaves us with either RAW or those depressed al-qaeda remnents in Pakistan (who were very disheartened to see what the Pakistani govt did to them).

                        I would vouch for al-qaudians as RAW is not capable of carrying out such blasts. However if there was an odd explosion in a small unimpoartant coaster; the explosion not even hurting an ant inside the bus, then Id say its RAW.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'll go along with Mr. Spock.
                          Now beam me outta here scotty.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
                            What does the ISI have to do with this..even if ISI is the big bad wolf of the country (someone needs to explain to me this whole ISI issue in detail someday)...what would they get out of a terrorist attack in Karachi,and that too on Frenchies helping us out with our defense issues?

                            Hmmm...maybe the Indians were sponsoring Al Qaeda....

                            I'm sorry, had to pop this one in this post!

                            Can u imagine...OBL shaking hands behind closed doors with VJP! ROTFL
                            youve misunderstood my comment..... what I meant was that anytime anything happens in India they automatically blame it on ISI...as such we should not be like them we should first find proof and then point the finger at the culprit

                            Comment


                              #15
                              EX Soviet inteli. officer believes it could be India.
                              http://www.thereporter.net/viewfull.asp?ID=86

                              May 13,2002

                              ASHGABAT (PPA) -- European and Russian observers have voiced similar
                              opinion that, in all likelihood, India may have engineered the recent
                              brutal killing of French engineers in Karachi who were overseeing
                              construction of Khalid class (Agosta B90) submarines, reports PPA
                              correspondents Tariq Saeedi in Ashgabat and Sergi Pyatakov in Moscow.
                              "Only India stands to benefit from this massacre [of French
                              engineers]," said a western European diplomat based in Central Asia.
                              When asked to explain his point of view, he said, "India has recently
                              concluded agreement to build six Scorpene class French submarines.

                              First of these submarines will be ready in 2006 and till that time
                              India has no way to counter the sub-surface superiority of Pakistan's
                              Agosta [submarines]. Moreover, Indian shipbuilding industry is in no
                              shape to undertake construction of submarines right away. It will be
                              at least 2 to 3 years before India can up date its shipbuilding
                              facilities to begin construction of Scorpene. India will benefit
                              immensely if [submarine] construction programme of Pakistan is
                              thwarted."

                              Similar view, with a new twist, was expressed by Genandy Kamarov (not
                              his real name), a retired officer of KGB. He said, "Forgive my
                              perverted mind if I see sinister designs where there may be none but
                              the Karachi incident smacks of RAW-MOSSAD connection." Kamarov
                              explained that according to his own sources, Israeli Prime Minister
                              Ariel Sharon called in Mossad director Ephraim Halevy in the third
                              week of February and gave 'precise instructions' to 'get the assassins
                              of Danny Pearl.'

                              According to Kamarov's theory, 'precise instructions' to get Pearl's
                              killers include close collaboration with RAW because Pakistan is one
                              of the few countries where Israel does not have an effective network
                              of its own. Referring to a recent incident where an American 'free
                              lance journalist' was detained at Karachi airport because he was
                              carrying a video film showing entrance gate of Karachi central prison,
                              Kamarov said someone high up intervened and procured release of the
                              'journalist' along with the video.

                              Why the video of main entrance of Karachi jail ?, asked Kamarov. Is it
                              part of Israeli plan to get at killers of Pearl?, he wondered.
                              Elaborating on his theory, Kamarov said, "It is the first time since
                              1972 that an Israeli prime minister has issued direct orders to get at
                              assassins of a Jew. Now, if we assume that RAW and MOSSAD are working
                              jointly to get at Pearl's killers -- and there are reasons to assume
                              that they are working together. Pearl, before his kidnapping, was
                              staying with an Indian lady in Karachi who had been denied Pakistani
                              visa but somehow managed to get it and came over to Karachi.

                              The same Indian lady intervened for release of the American journalist
                              who was carrying video of Karachi jail. What is the connection between
                              Pearl and this other American journalist, and who is that Indian
                              lady?" "Now, remember that in the shadowy world of espionage and
                              betrayal, there are no friends and no enemies. We all have our jobs to
                              do and we work without emotion, in cold blood. If RAW is helping
                              Mossad get the Pearl killers, RAW will want something in return. That
                              'something' can be a workable plan to halt Pakistani submarine plan
                              because at the moment Indian armed forces are superior to Pakistan in
                              every respect but one : They don't have anything to counter the threat
                              posed by Agosta submarines."

                              For all intent and purpose, it appears that Kamarov's theory stands on
                              solid ground because the Karachi massacre seems to have achieved a
                              heavy blow to Pakistan's Agosta 90B submarine programme. By extension,
                              it has also caused a substantial damage to Pakistan's economy in terms
                              of investors' confidence. No one but India stands to gain from this
                              tragedy. Concluding his remarks, Kamarov said, "Indians cannot hope to
                              get their Scorpene submarines till 2006 and they will do everything to
                              prevent Pakistan from getting an edge over India in terms of
                              sub-surface vessels till that time."

                              The fact that India's shipbuilding facilities are in shambles and
                              India has no way to build submarine quickly, is supported by Strategic
                              Affairs, a highly respected professional journal, which carried these
                              remarks in its September 2001 issue : "Ironically, the simulator
                              acquisition is taking place at a time when India's domestic
                              submarine-building programme is mired in uncertainty because of the
                              poor state of its shipyards." News from Indian quarters also suggests
                              India's undisguised happiness over the sad incident. Indian Express on
                              9 May 2002 quoted a jubilant Indian naval analyst :
                              ‘‘There will no doubt be a loss of confidence among the
                              French. Other group of specialists from France will be apprehensive
                              about coming to Pakistan." says Commodore Uday Bhaskar, Deputy
                              Director, India’s Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
                              (IDSA).

                              Given the fact that some of India's 'strategic assets' are scattered
                              along its coastline, within easy reach of silent Agosta, India seems
                              quite willing to make all efforts to halt Pakistan's indigenous
                              manufacturing plan of sub-surface boats. Failure to do so is not
                              desirable for Indian policy makers because in that case they will have
                              to remain subdued till 2006 when first Scorpene will be able to set
                              sails with Indian flag. The Indian Navy plans to build 26 submarines
                              in the next 30 years but the only shipyard capable of building them,
                              Mazgaon Dock in Mumbai, needs a considerable infusion of money to
                              develop the infrastructure.

                              There is no indication yet that the Defence Ministry has that kind of
                              money. Indian attention is now focused on the French Scorpene
                              submarine, which is to be built in India under license from DCN. Here
                              too, the poor state of infrastructure at Mazgaon Dock could be an
                              obstacle. Even if funds are released by the year-end, it could take
                              two-to-three years to modernize the yard. Scorpene has been designed
                              and developed jointly by DCN (Naval Construction Directorate) of
                              France and Izar (formerly Bazan) of Spain. Under code name Project 75,
                              India is planning to build and acquire 30 submarines, raising the
                              total number of sub surface vessels in its fleet to 45 within next 30
                              years. Scorpene, hailed as "silent killer" is the first submarine
                              India plans to build.

                              Later, the construction plans may include Russian Amur class
                              submarines. Scorpene is said to be superior to Agosta although no
                              substantial reasons are offered to prove its superiority. In realistic
                              and practical terms, Scorpene is inferior to Agosta in all respects
                              but one : it provides a more 'silent' platform. The main advantage
                              conventional submarines such as Agosta and Scorpene have over nuclear
                              submarines is their element of surprise. A conventional submarine
                              moves silently while a nuclear submarine makes a peculiar 'signature
                              noise', created by its atomic reactors.

                              Under optimal thermal conditions, a conventional submarine like Agosta
                              or Scorpene is almost impossible to detect in deep waters. The only
                              drawback of conventional vis-ŕ-vis atomic submarines is that they have
                              to come up periodically to 'snorkel' and charge their batteries. This
                              drawback has also been rectified with introduction of MESMA (Module
                              d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) independent air propulsion system
                              which gives it under-water endurance quite comparable to nuclear
                              submarines.

                              Both Agosta and Scorpene are equipped with this system. Except for
                              'noise factor' Scorpene, though pricier, is not superior to Agosta.
                              Scorpene has a maximum range of 6400 nautical miles at 8 knots while
                              Agosta can go almost twice that distance at higher speed : 11000
                              nautical miles at 11 knots. Scorpene has a rated endurance of 50 days
                              while Agosta has the endurance of 68 days, a clear advantage when you
                              are operating away from your home base. Both Scorpene and Agosta can
                              operate at a depth of more than 350 meters. Agosta has the ability to
                              'sprint' for a reasonable distance at a speed exceeding 40 knots.

                              According to a report carried by Hindustan Times on 22 February 2002,
                              highly-placed sources in New Delhi and Moscow informed that India is
                              negotiating with Russia for the lease of an unfinished Akula-II
                              (Shark) Bars class nuclear submarine. Work on this submarine was about
                              85 per cent complete when its construction stopped in 1996. This
                              unfinished submarine is reportedly "sitting" at the Amur Shipbuilding
                              Plant at Komsomolsk-na-Amur in eastern Siberia. Negotiations for its
                              lease have been going on for over three years. It is expected that by
                              the end of this year India will get possession of this submarine which
                              is capable of launching atomic warheads.

                              Another indication of Indian Navy's nuclear ambitions also came from
                              Hindustan Times, which on 15 February 2002, informed that officers of
                              the Indian Navy and Air Force have commenced training at the Bhabha
                              Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Trombay, to learn how to handle nuclear
                              devices.

                              A nuclear submarine, even though equipped with nuclear warheads, will
                              be ineffective against Pakistan for the time being because it will
                              lose its element of surprise against stealthy Agosta 90B. By derailing
                              Agosta project, India can hope to maintain sub surface superiority
                              till 2006 when its Scorpene submarines will begin floating out of the
                              construction dock. Reportedly, India also has 3 Amur class submarines
                              in advanced stage of construction in Russia though the information
                              could not be confirmed from independent sources. India is also aware
                              of the painful fact that with retirement of INS Vikram from the
                              service, Indian Navy has only one aircraft carrier, INS Viraat. The
                              alleged aquisition of the STOBAR carrier Gorshkov and the MiG-29K's to
                              operate from it are not going to be enough to provide the kind of air
                              superiority India craves - the sortie rate from this carrier isn't
                              enough and the aircraft doesn't have the payload/range of a catapult
                              launched type.-PPA

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