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    Daniel Pearl Murder suspect transported...

    Just a follow up to all of the Guantanimo fiasco of a few weeks ago. The attached link shows the Daniel Pearl suspect being transported in Pakistan. Unfortunately I cannot paste a picture here, but it clearly shows the suspect shackled, hooded and gagged. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with this, it is indeed proper to do in cases of transporting prisoners. The point is that this method of transport is practiced the world over, including in Pakistan. Despite these pictures providing evidence of this "mistreatment", I bet we will not hear a word of it from Amnesty International. (sarcasm)
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/15/pea...ent/index.html

    [This message has been edited by Ohioguy (edited March 15, 2002).]
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    #2
    Someone told me he didn't want his current picture plastered all over the world and has asked to be hooded!

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      #3
      Brother Ohio, asalam o Lakum. The pictures that you see are to fool people like you. The guy in the Hood is not the suspect. The suspect has already been given to the US authorities. The Hood fools a lot of people. If he were real, why would they cover his face?

      Comment


        #4
        I volunteer at Amnesty International, and it doesn't really matter how despicable you are, or what country your in - they protest the maltreatement of prisoners. They were created to do this. They will likely protest it - it might not be as loud, but they will.

        The stink about Guatanomo, had more to do with the classification of the prisoners - not classifying them as prisoners of war and applying Geneva Conventions. The shackling and hooding of the prisoners was symbolic of this.

        The microscope often falls on the US because we expect more from it. Its part of the "civilized world" - to quote President Bush. I don't think Pakistan is percieved to be part of that 'world' yet - so human rights groups are less vocal about the maltreatement of prisoners, its an everyday occurance.

        Achtung

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          #5
          Achtung writes:
          "The microscope often falls on the US because we expect more from it. Its part of the "civilized world" - to quote President Bush. I don't think Pakistan is percieved to be part of that 'world' yet - so human rights groups are less vocal about the maltreatement of prisoners, its an everyday occurance."

          That's a pretty sad commentary. It suggests that human rights violations are overlooked where they are most prevalent and most in need of change and carped on where they are least prevalent. I agree with your premise but find it to be a "double-standard" of immense proportions. As pointed out by OG, the shackling and hooding of the Pearl suspect during transport in Pakistan is exactly the same as the shackling and hooding of Al Qaeda prisoners during transport in Cuba. Even though this shackling and hooding has been consistent since his arrest, I have not seen one single publication blasting a headline that this constitutes "TORTURE!!!" INHO it isn't. But then again I don't think it was torture to do it to the Al Qaeda either.
          "I met the surgeon general - he offered me a cigarette. " --Rodney Dangerfield

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            #6
            Actung,

            Was it you who said last week, right is right and wrong is wrong? I think folks here would argue that they should be included in the civilized world. My point is that the US should not be under such a microscope, just because it has an open and available press. Has anyone checked with Saddam's torture victims to see if they would prefer Guantanimo. Ooops forgot, the Red Cross and Amnesty international are not allowed to visit his victims. Perhaps you could "volunteer" in Iraq.

            If this is not the real suspect, or he did not want to be photographed, then why is the nice policeman holding his hand over his mouth? Could he be shouting something to the press?

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              #7
              Wrong is wrong. You guys are the ones who have established scales of moral equivalency. Why not apply those scales here - is the hooding and shackling of this prisoner morally equivalent to the sensory deprivation and humiliation of prisoners in Guatenamo Bay?

              I say wrong is wrong. Although I don't know the specifics of this case (with the exception of this picture), in general I believe prisoners should be treated with dignity - the way we treat them is a reflection of how we treat one another, its a reflection of civil society.

              The maltreatment of prisoners anywhere in the world should be deplored, whether it be in Iraq, the US or Pakistan.

              myvoice, I believe the cries of "torture" were leveled once it was learned that these prisoners were drugged and more specifically "deprived of their senses". This is a technique of 'torture', perhaps its more of a humane technique of torture, but nevertheless its classified as such.

              Achtung

              Comment


                #8
                Achtung:
                The cries of torture were for hooding and shackling specifically. The theory being "hooding" constituted "sensory deprivation."
                "I met the surgeon general - he offered me a cigarette. " --Rodney Dangerfield

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think it went something like this:

                  - hood: knocks out sight
                  - earmuffs: knock out sound
                  - mitts on hands: knock out touch
                  - gagged - knocks out taste

                  I'm not sure if they used nose plugs to knock out smell. But this was the story circulating - and this is what created the cries of torture.

                  "Pictures released of the men show them blindfolded, tightly shackled and forced to wear surgical face masks, ear covers and gloves, denying them use of key senses."
                  ( http://www.refuseandresist.org/newwa...02powcamp.html )


                  Achtung

                  [This message has been edited by Achtung (edited March 15, 2002).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Actung,

                    I am being perfectly "equivalent" here. The purpose of hooding a prisoner is to make it harder to attack an escort. Masks were fitted over some who were either "spitters" or may have had tuberculosis. Doctors and nurses and army medics work all day long in these with no ill effects.

                    The point here is that there are some whose sense of outrage overwhelms their common sense and knowledge of normal procedures worldwide. The misdirected out rage detracts from where the outrage really ought to be directed.
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                    Comment


                      #11
                      OhioGuy.

                      This issue was brought up a month or so ago on these forums as well.

                      I do not condone the treatment of prisoners in Pakistan at all. Its highhandedness to say the least. I know it coz its my home country.

                      That said, first of all, does a comparison of the treatment of the prisoners in Cuba to something similar in Pakistan or elsewhere justify the hooding and shackling of the Cuban detainees?
                      Secondly, the comparison is off-key. The prisoner in Pakistan is a murder suspect, and is being charged for that. The prisoners at Cuba have not been charged with anything, and will most likely be released soon. So theres no justifiable comparison here either. Though that does NOT exonerate Pakistani police in anyway.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The issue is different:

                        Guantanamo Base is a case of Prisoners of War being denied the rights they are due.

                        Omar Sheikh's case is that of a dangerous criminal being taken to court, where he will face charges relating to terrorism.
                        Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                        Al-Ghazali

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Mad Scientist,

                          What Rights in particular? First, by any stretch of the imagination no "prisoners of war" are ever released before the cessation of hostilities. The war in Afghanistan is certainly not over. Second, if they are to be charged, a reasonable period of time is necessary to post charges, and to develop a case. Third, at least the Al Qaeda group may well qualify as mercenaries who are specifically not covered by the Geneva convention. Look it up, and under every clause in the convention they would qualify as mercenaries. The only "missing piece" to convict them is that they were paid more than the Taliban fighters. If pay records or testimony can be gathered to prove this point, they could be tried.

                          But that is not really my point. PART of the outrage over these detainees is that they were "TORTURED", which made the headlines all over the world. My point is that reasonable security for high profile prisoners ANTWHERE IN THE WORLD would include SHORT TERM procedures such as the US used, and Pakistan is currently using for security during their period of transport.

                          [This message has been edited by Ohioguy (edited March 15, 2002).]
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