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    900 Pakistaniz dead ?

    There are remours here that all of the pakistanis who went to afghanistan to fight for taliban have been executed by NA . There is no way for us to confirm that does any one know any thing about this ?
    More over according to what I have heard is that the religious parties who invoked all this are not claiming their dear bodies .

    #2
    some of the news and scenes on tv have given such indication, if it is true, its really sad and unfortunate both for pakistan and as well as for the families of the victims.
    I think the left behind families should get to the "greebans" of those fanatic mullah's whose shortsightedness caused this huge loss.

    but you know this will happen again some time in future unfortunately as these ppl who incited innocent ppl to die in name of Allah, would save thier pathetic lives to do the it again in name of God.As its thier living and business and you know no one quits his buisness

    Comment


      #3
      Freemind just because you are an atheist that does not give you the right to insult our religion.
      Second atleast learn to spell.
      It is Allah.

      Third you started a thread which got moved or deleted or whatever where you insulted the Pakistani govt.
      I would like to start up the conversation again, as you say pakistan was wrong to support the Taliban in the first place, and it is wrong now to support the US against the Taliban.
      So my question to you is - people have a bad habit of not answering and running from questions i hope you don't do that.

      What would you propose for us to do.
      We can't support the Taliban in your opinion, and we can't help the US.
      So what should we do [sarcasm]oh wise one[/sarcasm]

      ------------------
      Ours is not to reason why;
      Ours is but to do and die
      You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by FreeMind:
        First of all, 'Allah' is arabic word, so no point about its spellings. I can even write Ullah, and it should have been fine. Bernard shaw did not invent Allah

        Agreed.


        1. First of all, Pak army has to admit its follies in acting like warloards in pakistan, india and afghnaistan. This militancy should end.

        Unfortunately, they are not the only ones who act like warlords. If we had no army at all, other countries would be in Pakistan permanently rather than using it only occasionally.

        2. Any govt in Afghnaistan (communist, taliban, Tajiks, etc.) should be acceptable to pakistan, with no buts and ifs. So Paki rmy has to tender an unconditional apology to Afghans for interfering in 1979 with the help of Saudis and American ba$tards.

        Any government in Afghnistan should be acceptable to Pakistan if it is a government that the majority of the people of Afghanistan want. If it has been put there for the convenience of russia or america, why should we accept it. And it does concern Pakistan because that is where the refugees end up.


        3. In Sep 11 context, USA should not have been given any logistics support or ground facilities. We dont want to be involved in super power's problems. See ur size and then act accordingly. From liaqat ali khan, every paki miliatry ruler has the desire to make Pak frointline state of USA. This should stop right now.


        You are right, it should never have been given, even though it might have started yet another world war - the americans would have just taken it and china would have decided to come to the aid of Pakistan - to keep its face.

        4. Paki mitlatary should leave its rule on pakistan

        What other options are there? Benazir is abroad. Nawaz Shariff is in jail (as far as I know). The other parties you call religious zealots. Don't even mention the stupid Imran Khan - the man not only does not have a brain, he is a licker of white a**e and would sell the country to anyone in the west who told him that yes he really is white - and actually be too stupid to realise that he has sold the country.

        5. Paki miliatry should act like a passive element in state, taking orders from civilans setup.

        See above. Only if we have a valid civilian option which I cannot see.

        6. All the military leaders in 1999 coup should be hanged, inclduing Mush. This would send a signal to USA and others not to hire hookers inside Pakistan. Pakistan is for pakis not military.

        Military is part of Pakistan. It does not come from outside. In fact I think that is where the people who should be going into politics go. That is why there is so little choice when it comes to politics.

        7. Miltary budget should be drastically reduced. We dont need 5 lac army. we want to progress. Lets invest on human resources and infra structure.

        We do need the infra structure etc, unfortunately reducing the military budget would probably mean that countries like US don't even bother to ask when they want to use anything they need.

        8. Peace agreements should be signed with India, with no conditions attached. Let Kashmiris wage their own war.

        Why no conditions - if the voice of the majority had counted at the partition of India and Pakistan, Kahmir would have been part of Pakistan. Why no conditions - when India has, I believe, killed about 30% of the muslim population there - I am not sure of this figure - so correct me if it is wrong but is not a matter of no consequence. Again, the refugees end up in Pakistan.

        9. Nuclear arsenals should be handded ovver to UN. What is the use of these arsenals when one verbal threat from USA can make our military leaders pee in their pants.

        The only day that we are going to have equality in the world is when we do have the killing equipment. It is lack of killing equipment that lost Palestine, destroyed Iraq, Bosnia, Chechinia (cannot spell this) and is in the process of destroying Afghanistan. Any way UN is not a non-partisan organisation - it is ruled by america and its cronies - why do you think there are not that many resolutions against america.


        [This message has been edited by Shada (edited November 19, 2001).]

        Comment


          #5

          Good civilian rulers do not come from skies. They come from an evolving democratic process. If u kill Bhutto, exile leaders (no matter if they were corrupt or not), and do not let any democratic process to continue ans get established, then my friend, u will no hope in 100 years.

          Since 1987, civilain govts in Pak were powerless. From Junejo, BB to NS, everyone made compromises with the military to come into power. The civilian leaders were like municipal leaders. They dodnt have any control over foreign policies, and budget. Miltary budget (consuming 40% budget) could not be discussed in NA. Appointments in army was no longer a civilian affair. Army was acting like a war lord. ISI was funding IJI type religious coalitions against secular parties. Sectraian parties wre being assisted by army to pit one sect against the other so that civilina govt could not fucntion well. Elections were held when the winning party had been decided, and the part leader made all sort of compromises.

          In this situation, 100 years of civilian rule can not produce good leaders.

          u can not start a democratic process, saying if Imran Khan, NS or Bhiutto is the right candidate. Just hold elections under supreme court rule, let the ppl decide what they want. In the first phase, all crooked ppl would come, but in deacdes (yes, no quick solution) this process would get u good rulers. There r no quick fixes. Those who look for another Kamal Atta Turk in army, should have read army's achievements in bringing shame, insult and infamy to pakistan and paksitanis.

          And one word about ur fear that other countries would occupy Pakistan if we decrease military budget. How much is Japan spending on its defence? How many countries have invaded it? Even Russia kneal down before it on Japan's claim of some islands under Reussian occupation for decades. Why? Only strong human resource and industrial base makes u an invincible force. This is not 4 th centurry. What was the last country occupied by another country in recenet history? Did China invade HK? or Taiwan? It is keeping its peaceful policy and ckaim over Taiwan. And it has laready got HK. We can do the same thing in Kashmir.



          [This message has been edited by FreeMind (edited November 19, 2001).]

          [This message has been edited by sabah (edited November 20, 2001).]

          Comment


            #6
            [QUOTE]Originally posted by FreeMind:
            And, yes, it was politically wrong to assist muslim extremist against communist govt of Afghanistan in 79. It was more wrong to create Taliban type Frankestein. And it was more morally wrong to kill the children that u brainwashed in ur madressas, helped them to control Afgnaistam, and then turn ur back on them.

            Ok so it wrong to help Afghanis fight for their freedom.
            Then what should we have done??
            It is wrong to kill those who have been thought by us?
            Ok what should we have done?
            You are big on complaints, small on actual constructive arguments.

            It is the lowliest of low act, a termendous betrayal, that has damaged the pakistani character in the whole world. When we handed over Ramzi yusuf (our own citizen) to US without any legal process (even UK takes more than 1 year to extradite to USA), some American attorney in USA said "Pakis can sell their mothers for few bucks". This statement has onmce agains stressed our national character, thanks to paki army, and its militant religious policies.

            You can blame BB for that stupid move.

            1. First of all, Pak army has to admit its follies in acting like warloards in pakistan, india and afghnaistan. This militancy should end.

            And what should they do then?
            Give each other a nice hug and get back to work?

            2. Any govt in Afghnaistan (communist, taliban, Tajiks, etc.) should be acceptable to pakistan, with no buts and ifs. So Paki rmy has to tender an unconditional apology to Afghans for interfering in 1979 with the help of Saudis and American ba$tards.

            Yeah you are dreamer with out any semblance of reality.
            Has the US yet apologised for the vietnam war?

            3. In Sep 11 context, USA should not have been given any logistics support or ground facilities. We dont want to be involved in super power's problems. See ur size and then act accordingly. From liaqat ali khan, every paki miliatry ruler has the desire to make Pak frointline state of USA. This should stop right now.

            Ok and what should we have said?
            Fact off?
            And if today we were being bombed you would be saying the exact opposite.
            What should we have done instead?

            4. Paki mitlatary should leave its rule on pakistan

            And what let BBB come back to power again.
            Hell no, rather have military rule than her.

            5. Paki miliatry should act like a passive element in state, taking orders from civilans setup.

            That is wishful thinking.

            6. All the military leaders in 1999 coup should be hanged, inclduing Mush. This would send a signal to USA and others not to hire hookers inside Pakistan. Pakistan is for pakis not military.

            Ah ok who would do that?
            Who would come to power?
            Who would run the election?
            And how can you be sure that they won't become US chamchas?

            7. Miltary budget should be drastically reduced. We dont need 5 lac army. we want to progress. Lets invest on human resources and infra structure.

            There i agree.

            8. Peace agreements should be signed with India, with no conditions attached. Let Kashmiris wage their own war.

            Ok they i say we should just shut down our FP completely.
            First you say it is wrong to side with the US and then it is wrong to fight for our muslim brothers.
            How do you suggest the govt do that without having riots and all hell break lose on the streets?

            9. Nuclear arsenals should be handded ovver to UN. What is the use of these arsenals when one verbal threat from USA can make our military leaders pee in their pants.

            Who is aiming to fight the US?
            It is to fight india.

            You speak like one inexperienced on gobal realities and real poltik.
            I have a dozen or so questions.
            I would like them answered.
            All of them.
            No selective choosing.

            You complain and complain but don't say anything constructive.

            Shada, China come to the aid of pakistan against the US?
            You got be joking.
            That would have never happened.
            Imagine the US an china going to war, you want judgement day to come early or something?

            Freemind (lack of common sense):

            100 years can not produce good leaders and democracy does not have to lead to stability.
            Japan and Pakistan - you are comparing their defence budgets?
            Man you have no clue about global politics do you?

            China got HK beause the treaty expired.
            They knew they would get HK no matter what.
            It was not an issue.

            ------------------
            Ours is not to reason why;
            Ours is but to do and die
            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

            Comment


              #7
              http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...4981-1,00.html


              Pakistanis blame the Mullahs of Pakistan for joining Jihad.

              There, the Pakistanis tell a uniform tale of deception. Mullahs in Pakistan told them Americans were fighting against brother Muslims in Afghanistan and that it was their duty to join the jihad. "The mullahs cheated us," says Saeed Hanif Mohammed, 60, a member of the fundamentalist Pakistani militia Harkat-ul-Mujahideen. "A lot of people died, but we couldn't care about them--we had to save ourselves." He pauses. "I just want to go home." The Northern Alliance guards say barefoot Mohammed Haji Meer, 55, was one of the Pakistani commanders. "All these people are Muslims," he says, gesturing at his jailers. "Of course we regret coming here. The Taliban just left us--the people who wanted to fight thought they would be coming back."


              Comment


                #8
                How much is Japan spending on its defence? How many countries have invaded it? Even Russia kneal down before it on Japan's claim of some islands under Reussian occupation for decades. Why?
                Dude! Look where Japan is on the map.. now take a closer look at where Pakistan is? No comparison especially when Japan had their ass whooped and took refuge in defence treaty with the US who are their mama's now. You fight Japan means you fight the US .. so THAT"s why no one tackles Japan.

                I agree with the general (no pun intended) sentiment that the army should curtail it's role in politics and return to the barracks.

                I do think we've lost a lot with the all army rule.. but sadly we've lost more with corrupt civilian rule. When it's not the army selling us to foreigners, it's civilians.

                We need nationalist movements, NOT religious movements. These jokers can't offer prayers together, they can't run a country. What we need are loyal upright Pakistanis who are willing to die.. cuz rest assured, as soon as there's a leader who's not up for sale to CIA, he'd be taken out.

                JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is not the end of fight against the crusade. Those who fought and paid the ultimate price are the real mujahids and their families should be proud of their courage and bravery. Talibans would have done the same thing, had Pakistan been attacked by a foreign aggressor.

                  [This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited November 20, 2001).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Isnt it strange that Pakistani media PTV Khabarnama didnt even care to mention that 900 Pakistani citizens were killed in Afghanistan and before that 32 Pakistani citizens and 84 Pakistani citizens were killed in Afghanistan, while PTV's headline was that 4 Kashmiris were killed by Indian army.

                    Is Pakistani media interested in Pakistani citizens or Kashmiris

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
                      Dude! Look where Japan is on the map.. now take a closer look at where Pakistan is? No comparison especially when Japan had their ass whooped and took refuge in defence treaty with the US who are their mama's now. You fight Japan means you fight the US .. so THAT"s why no one tackles Japan.

                      I agree with the general (no pun intended) sentiment that the army should curtail it's role in politics and return to the barracks.

                      I do think we've lost a lot with the all army rule.. but sadly we've lost more with corrupt civilian rule. When it's not the army selling us to foreigners, it's civilians.

                      We need nationalist movements, NOT religious movements. These jokers can't offer prayers together, they can't run a country. What we need are loyal upright Pakistanis who are willing to die.. cuz rest assured, as soon as there's a leader who's not up for sale to CIA, he'd be taken out.

                      Yes, we need nationalist govt. A govt which honors and respects the national dignity. A govt which recognizes the value of human resource, and spends money on education, health, and infrastructure.

                      Regarding Japan, i think, we had our asses too whopped in the last 50 years. With all Japan's wealth, they could have started new military build up, but they did not. And it is not just Japan. The point is that, if ur foriegn policy is neutral, and u r peaceful towards every country in general and neighbouring country in pasrticular, no one is going to touch u. And if they do, all other countries would be afraid of letting the aggressor set a precedent. Just like what happned when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Were there any Shia Pakistanis amongst those who died in Afghanistan?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The Alliance has had no direct contact with commanders of the foreign contingent fighting with the Taleban in Konduz, but is in talks with Afghan Taleban leaders, who are demanding guarantees for the safety of their comrades from around the world before agreeing to surrender the city.

                          There are known to be Chechens, Pakistanis, Indonesians, Punjabis, Arabs, Uyghur Muslims from Xinjiang in western China and a handful of Britons of Pakistani background in the encircled city. There are also 1,000-2,000 Muslims from Uzbekistan, who were led by Juma “Jumaboy” Namangani, a former Red Army paratrooper, who was killed in a recent US air raid on the city, according to Alliance leaders.

                          -------------------------

                          Interesting.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Freemind you want answer my questions?

                            ------------------
                            Ours is not to reason why;
                            Ours is but to do and die
                            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Yogi:
                              The Alliance has had no direct contact with commanders of the foreign contingent fighting with the Taleban in Konduz, but is in talks with Afghan Taleban leaders, who are demanding guarantees for the safety of their comrades from around the world before agreeing to surrender the city.

                              There are known to be Chechens, Pakistanis, Indonesians, Punjabis, Arabs, Uyghur Muslims from Xinjiang in western China and a handful of Britons of Pakistani background in the encircled city. There are also 1,000-2,000 Muslims from Uzbekistan, who were led by Juma “Jumaboy” Namangani, a former Red Army paratrooper, who was killed in a recent US air raid on the city, according to Alliance leaders.


                              lol, surprising that NA buffoons would issue more and more staements which would give Taliban more and more respect in the Islamc world. Yes there are also many pakistanis and arabs and chechens in kashmir too. Many went to fight in bosnia, many during the afghan jihad. Surprising NOT ONE in NA? lolz
                              That gives credence to even more to taliban and their popularity by the fact that even muslims from Uzbek republic joined the Taliban. Apparently there were 2 uzbkes the khovs, povs and yovs who yearn for the revival of Ummah and rushed to join their brethren in taliban and those who call themselves "afghan uzbeks" (just like their use of the tern "arab afghan") who get support from puppetov karimov and their israeli, russian and smelly indian masters...

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