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    pakistan caste system

    Lest we in Pakistan feel complacent that we have no such 'backward' system of primordial discrimination, note that a recent Human Rights Watch report on caste abuse included Pakistan in the list of countries where this is found. Is there a huge difference between the way Christians in this country are treated and Dalits in India? Street-cleaners, sewage workers, rubbish collectors here will invariably be Christian; most 'clean' Muslim households will not let them use their dishes. And while we do not oppress our Christians in the way Bihari higher castes, for example, oppress Dalits, we have the blasphemy laws. More than any other community, Christians have been the innocent victims of these laws. Many lie rotting in jail on the flimsiest of evidence.

    In an Urdu short story the main character recalled how he had fallen in love with a Christian nurse while staying in hospital, but had been forced to give her up under pressure from family and friends. Those same family and friends warmly embraced the woman he eventually married - a white, English Christian. The story illustrates how our bias against native Christians is derived from the Hindu caste system; many of today's Pakistani Christians are the descendants of Dalits.

    Even among Muslims there is an informal caste hierarchy, with 'high' and 'low' castes. The latter, generally referred to as 'kammis', include barbers, butchers and other performers of menial tasks (or their descendants). In matrimonial ads - those excellent barometers of social perceptions and values - one of the criteria listed will be for boys/girls of the same zaat: 'match required for Arain doctor, only Arain families need apply'. Zaat differentiation has migrated abroad with our expats as well: Pakistani families in the UK or US, just like their Indian counterparts, socialise and marry on the basis of zaat.

    Other forms of caste discrimination are found across the globe, but the general pattern is the same. Eradicating it will involve more than the simple passage of legislation. The Indian Constitution, for example, does not recognise the existence of castes, and bans discrimination against Dalits. Such paper injunctions bear little relevance to the real India.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The News International, Pakistan

    Update | Top Stories

    #2
    Originally posted by rvikz:
    Lest we in Pakistan feel complacent that we have no such 'backward' system of primordial discrimination, note that a recent Human Rights Watch report on caste abuse included Pakistan in the list of countries where this is found. Is there a huge difference between the way Christians in this country are treated and Dalits in India? Street-cleaners, sewage workers, rubbish collectors here will invariably be Christian; most 'clean' Muslim households will not let them use their dishes. And while we do not oppress our Christians in the way Bihari higher castes, for example, oppress Dalits, we have the blasphemy laws. More than any other community, Christians have been the innocent victims of these laws. Many lie rotting in jail on the flimsiest of evidence.

    In an Urdu short story the main character recalled how he had fallen in love with a Christian nurse while staying in hospital, but had been forced to give her up under pressure from family and friends. Those same family and friends warmly embraced the woman he eventually married - a white, English Christian. The story illustrates how our bias against native Christians is derived from the Hindu caste system; many of today's Pakistani Christians are the descendants of Dalits.

    Even among Muslims there is an informal caste hierarchy, with 'high' and 'low' castes. The latter, generally referred to as 'kammis', include barbers, butchers and other performers of menial tasks (or their descendants). In matrimonial ads - those excellent barometers of social perceptions and values - one of the criteria listed will be for boys/girls of the same zaat: 'match required for Arain doctor, only Arain families need apply'. Zaat differentiation has migrated abroad with our expats as well: Pakistani families in the UK or US, just like their Indian counterparts, socialise and marry on the basis of zaat.

    Other forms of caste discrimination are found across the globe, but the general pattern is the same. Eradicating it will involve more than the simple passage of legislation. The Indian Constitution, for example, does not recognise the existence of castes, and bans discrimination against Dalits. Such paper injunctions bear little relevance to the real India.


    Are you saying Indian people don't have servants? By the way servants i not a caste sytem idiot, they are not considered as "untouchables" and some of them in my house had mad friends with me and they were treated nicely with a home, education and health for them and their family. So there rvikz

    Comment


      #3
      but still names like chaudry are used
      in pakistan. in marriage ads you will
      see what type of caste they would want to select.there are lot of disputes involving
      mohajir man and pathan girls.there is no such thing as permanet under class?

      Comment


        #4
        ------------------------------------------------------------------
        FAMILIES ENSLAVED BY A LIFE OF CASUAL BRUTALITY
        Suzanne Goldenberg in Matli, Sind province, reports on the
        rehabilitation of Pakistanis freed from bonded labor
        Like his grandfather and father before him, Rupo Koli was
        born a slave, and all his days were the same: long, hard
        hours in sugar cane fields, with a...rope hissing through
        the air towards his shoulders when he faltered under the
        burning sun.
        Life was bearable until four years ago when Rupo, his wife
        and eight children were sold for 50,000 rupees (1,000 BPS)
        to Ali Baksh Leghari of Batin district, a landlord whose
        cruelty still makes them shiver with fear.
        They wore leg-irons in the field and were made to squat at
        wooden posts before they were chained for the night. They
        were beaten when the landlord was drunk or had guests to
        entertain, and were paid only in flour, in such miserly
        qualities that for several days every month they ate grass.
        "If we...took an onion from the field, the landlord used to
        beat us," Rupo said. Otherwise, they survived by gulping
        down a paste of uncooked flour and water and the occasional
        chilli; the landlord wouldn't spare the cooking fuel.
        Forty-eight hours after human rights activists and police
        led Rupo out of bondage, the bazaar in this...town remains a
        source of wonder for him. Rupo has walked into town three
        times this afternoon...
        Neither Rupo, ...about 40, nor his father can remember the
        original debt that reduced the family from free men to
        bonded laborers, but after years of back-breaking and unpaid
        labor on sugar cane plantations it had unaccountably grown
        to 118,000 rupees (2,360 BPS).
        Although his story is horrifying, Rupo recounts it as if it
        were completely normal - and in this part of Pakistan it is.
        ..in the southern province of Sind, feudal landlords rule
        as they have always done: with casual brutality.
        Bonded labor was outlawed only in 1992. Shakeel Ahmed
        Pathan, the Sind representative of the Human Rights
        Commission of Pakistan, argues...officials are reluctant to
        enforce the law, partly because they are themselves from
        landed families, and partly for fear of offending the most
        powerful people in the land.
        Many of Pakistan's leading politicians are landlords,
        including the prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, and demands
        for argicultural reform in the past have met with fierce
        resistance.
        Sind's agricultural wealth depends on bonded labor, mostly
        tribal (meaning indigenous) or so-called untouchable Hindus,
        called haris, for labor-intensive and highly profitable cash
        crops like sugar cane which are replacing traditional
        agriculture.
        For the haris living on vast banana or sugar estates, the
        landlords are akin to God: quick to anger, slow to forgive,
        and unanswerable to no one. They rule unencumbered by such
        modern niceties as land reform, taxation, trade unions or
        rights legislation.
        "All landlords think...haris are their property," Mr. Pathan
        said.
        So much so...landlord Ibrahim Mangrio did not worry about
        witnesses when he grabbed Meran Devi by the hair and dragged
        her into a field. "He would rape me in front of my mother,
        he would rape me in front of the entire world," Meran said.
        Hanif, the...eight-year-old burrowed into her side,
        is...living proof of her shame. She said his father's only
        concern for his future was that Hanif bear a Muslim name.
        The original debts often forgotten, unscrupulous landlords
        take advantage of the haris' illiteracy to ensure they can
        never be free. ... The haris spend their lives on the
        estates in conditions the Human Rights Commission describes
        as private jails.
        There was no question of escape, said Meran's mother, Jhema
        Devi. The estate was patrolled by armed guards. "We died
        there; we were born and married there. We didn't leave his
        land for 22 years."
        ..with the intervention of human rights activists who
        bombard officials with complaints about bonded labor or
        sometimes raid estates to liberate haris, about 1,000
        peasants have been freed.
        For their pains, Mr. Pathan said, the activists have been
        beaten and threatened with reprisals; several landlords have
        turned up at his office in Hyderabad demanding...he pay for
        the haris he has taken away. Despite an encampment of freed
        haris a mile from the Matli police station, the local police
        chief denies all knowledge of bonded labor in his district.
        The rude shelters...where Rupo and Jhema Devi live with 400
        to 500 other recently freed haris are the local equivalent
        of the "underground railway" in the southern US states
        before the civil war.
        The haris remain desperately poor. Most have only one set of
        clothes and afew battered kitchen utensils. But they are
        beginning to find work as paid farm laborers, taking home 80
        rupees a day. As the fear of being recaptured by their
        landlords lessens, the haris chart their own physical
        transformation. They stand straighter...
        "Now I am becoming less...black," Jhema Devi said. She had
        never been able to wash properly before.
        The haris have a temporary protector in the local church,
        but the Irish priest in Matli...describes their freedom as
        tenuous. The haris are too unused to independence to know
        how to avoid falling into debt. Some of them have become
        trapped again.
        ---------------------------------------------------------------
        ---------------------------------------------------------------

        Comment


          #5
          rvikz aka honestali u are a moron. When it comes to caste discrimination India is second to none. How fanatic can you get when you even avoid the shadow of a low caste. You realy want to compare racism India v rest of the world get a copy of "shame of India" from CBS 60 minutes by Christiana Amanpour...

          If you interested I can post the text version one more time.

          Comment


            #6
            The arrogant feudal lords of Sind and Punjab have treated their own people like dirt for centuries. They conqured them all by use of force and reduced them to the level of untouchables politically and socially. In rural Punjab and Sind waderas/feudal lords are the upper caste and people are their subjects and entitled to no respect. Come Muhajirs and pose a challenge to the primitive stronghold of Punjabi and Sindhi feudals. So the feudal and arrogant ethnic rulers of Pakistan invented Quota system in Sind (Only in Sind , not in Punjab or other provinces).

            Most Muhajirs now can not go to higher institutions of learning or professions. Can not compete for the state functionerires because they would outscore Feudal families who never work hard to improve talents but grab every position of power free. To reduce Muhajir participation in running Pakistan they have to be isolated as nobodies in a feudal society. They must be treated like dirt as the masses of Punjab and Sind are treated by the rulers.
            Muhajirs are able to fight back today but thanks to quota systyem , a few generations in future they will also become docile and dirt like subjects as the people of Punjab and Sind have become over time of feudal oppression.
            CASTE SYSTEM MAY BE DYING IN INDIA. IT HAS BEEN REVIVED IN PAKISTAN . MUHAJIRS WILL BE MADE THE NEW LOW CASTE OF PAKISTAN.

            Question: Will Muhajirs of Pakistan accept their new status imposed on them by the feudal legislators of Pakistan?

            Answer: No way , whatever the cost. Bengalees did not.

            Comment


              #7
              Cast system in Pakistan

              As everyone is very well aware that Pakistanies were originally Hindus converted in to Islam. Vhen they were converted these people didnot forgot their roots. They converted along with their cast, that's the reason of cast system in Pakistan

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Abdali:
                rvikz aka honestali u are a moron. When it comes to caste discrimination India is second to none. How fanatic can you get when you even avoid the shadow of a low caste. You realy want to compare racism India v rest of the world get a copy of "shame of India" from CBS 60 minutes by Christiana Amanpour...

                If you interested I can post the text version one more time.
                Abdali... some clarifications about what has been posted .. is this true?
                forget india .. every knows about the indian caste system, tell me about the discrimination that is prevalent in PureLand.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rudra:
                  Abdali... some clarifications about what has been posted .. is this true?
                  forget india .. every knows about the indian caste system, tell me about the discrimination that is prevalent in PureLand.


                  Ahh comparing apples with oranges.... For every thing we have in Pak u have it in India plus caste. Close to 300M ppl are caste victims that twice the size of Pak.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by rvikz:
                    Even among Muslims there is an informal caste hierarchy, with 'high' and 'low' castes.
                    What you fail to realise is that the caste system in Pakistan has nothing to do with religon. Whereas in India, the caste system is a part of the religon.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      rvikz,

                      I read your message are seems like you have raised few questions. Let see if I can divide them into points:

                      Q1. Difference in treating Christians from Muslims.

                      A1. Yes it is true that Christians are given their own dishes for several reasons:
                      i) Because they are not Muslims and bring Jesus as a partner of Allah which is not acceptable.
                      ii) Because of hygiene issue as most of them take cleaning as job which is their choice as I know lot of Christians who are working as doctors, nurses and Engineers.

                      So if they choose to be doing cleaning than it is not our fault.

                      Q2. A Christian nurse and Muslim were force to re-consider the relationship?

                      A2. There is two different aspect in this story of yours.

                      i) A Nurse is and will be a Nurse and working at your place you don’t fell in love with patient because you are working not making love connections.
                      ii) The other point, which you didn’t clear, was that we are allowed to marry another religion person (with a book of Allah like Bible etc.) as long as either they change their religion to Islam or there children are brought up as Muslim.

                      Q3. The Zaat difference in Pakistan?

                      A3. For once I will agree with you regarding one family marrying within the family. But time is changing and people are not aware of the problems. For an example, we are 4 brothers and 1 sister and we all are married with different zaat people. Specially I am married to an English lady.

                      There shouldn’t be a caste or Zaat system in Pakistan as Islam doesn’t permits it.

                      Mr. “honestali”!

                      Okay lets take your statement that people did convert from Hindus to Muslims but it doesn’t take the FACT that WE (MUSLIMS) ruled the whole Indian continent for over 100 years.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by farhana:
                        What you fail to realise is that the caste system in Pakistan has nothing to do with religon. Whereas in India, the caste system is a part of the religon.
                        Bulls eye something I meant to say.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by honestali:
                          " We Muslim" what is the meaning of we muslim? Muslims who came from Turk, Afghan,Moghul or converts like you? I am really interested to know. Furthermore where are they hiding now? Are they any prominent members of any society?

                          British,Turks,Greeks , Moguls came and gone infact vanished from the world map. Fortunitely India remain India. India created DUMP called Pakistan for the CONVERTS who do not have guts to return to their original ROOTS
                          honestali! youve finally had the 'GUTS' to speak more than 60 words ! LOL!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Mr, Mbmasgi Islamic rule was a lot lot more thn 100 years. I will provide the time line latter on.

                            Me. Honestali, question for you if 100 percent Pakis are converts then where did all mughals, afghans, turks, persians, arabs go? I hope as per ur history books they did not disappear in thin air.

                            P.S. according to your history books each and every (1.2B) muslim is, or converted due to either.

                            1) Rape
                            2) Point of sword
                            3) Deception
                            4) Bribe
                            5) xxxxx

                            Perhapes guppies can add to the list and Indoz can also tell us about 2B christians if they aslo converted due to similar reasons.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by honestali:
                              " We Muslim" what is the meaning of we muslim? Muslims who came from Turk, Afghan,Moghul or converts like you? I am really interested to know. Furthermore where are they hiding now? Are they any prominent members of any society?

                              British,Turks,Greeks , Moguls came and gone infact vanished from the world map. Fortunitely India remain India. India created DUMP called Pakistan for the CONVERTS who do not have guts to return to their original ROOTS
                              This DUMP ruled ur ass for 1000 years don't you ever forget that. Original roots what original roots...you try extremly hard to link each and every smelly stinky ugly paki with your martial race, too bad distortion of history only works within BahRAT where Taj Mahal was a hindu temple.... try harder.

                              Comment

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