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    Visit That Should Not Have Taken Place

    Soon after kicking NS about two years ago, the general said in a press conference that the only dispute with India was Kashmir issue and nothing else. About one month ago, Jaswat Singh clearly told on TV that India would not surrender an inch of Kashmir to Pakistan. I wonder, why general or Bajpai agreed to such fruit less summit. What ever Uncle Sam says about this summit, the fact is that meeting was a disaster. I have seen excerpt of Generals press conference in India, where he was shouting at the journalist his words were, I am talking about Kashmir Issue, and they keep on talking about cross border terrorism

    I being an average person without knowing the details of agenda guessed that this meeting would be a total failure. As a matter of fact general should not have gone to India unless there would have been clear cut understanding between the two persons. It seemed that there was absolutely no official agenda to discuss about. General and his beloved wife wanted vacation in India on government expenses. It would have been better if General had visited privately to India at his own expenses. There are few other questions came in my mind.

    Why general was interested to dug his forgotten past which he had no connection for the last fifty years or so?

    Why he went to Taj Mahal with his wife, who was seen as shy beloved (Noor Jehan) watching her husband as Shahjehan-e-Waqt? (Disgusting to watch on TV)

    Why he was invited to a dinner, which was prepared by a cook specially, brought from Bombay to make 40 dishes?

    The tension mounted at the final hours of summit seemed to be enormous and general did not complete his remaining portion of journey by going to shrine of Khuaja Moinuddin Chishti. When some reporter asked Jaswant singh whether he refused permission to general for visiting the shrine, he said who was he to stop the general from visiting the shrine. He further said, Khuaja Sahib ki darga man har koi nahi ja sagta, jab tak khauja shaib ka bulawa nahi aata

    The bottom line is that no spadework was done before attending the summit and it looked President of Pakistan made fool of him, was insulted by the Indians during the summit. Such visit should have not taken place which proved as wastage of time and money. The out come of such future visits by the two persons would not be different than this one.

    I would like people to give their personal views about the visit and do not link any website or stupid articles by Paki or Hindis journalists. I would also request few people such as (CM, Chacha of Tariq USA) on this forum who are always biased with some hidden agenda should not waste their time here, unless they want to say something different what they have already said earlier. No hard feelings please

    Sincerely,

    FARID

    #2
    farid if they really interested in solving the problemthey should have agreement
    in hand before meeting takes place. i think it is more about legitimising the military goverment. it gave musharuff a chance to declare himself president. still the visit
    is positive development itis better both on talking terms . even most important than kashmir is any miscalulation by both sides
    that will end in unintentional war so the talks are very important.

    Comment


      #3
      Farid do you think this is a Punjabi conspiracy to undermine the Sindhi nation?

      Comment


        #4
        Farid,

        I know you're extremely anguished and saddened by the Prez screwing up India this way, but I'm sorry for you...

        if you're sympathies were with India, why didn't you say so in the first place instead of wasting our time with that Sindh c*ap?

        Comment


          #5
          Farid,
          First of all as Jaswant Singh said the issue (core or otherwise) is that of Jammu and Kashmir (and not Kashmir). Gen. Musharraf (and his croonies) keep harping on the UN resolutions but they conveniently forget that those same resolutions have named Pakistan as the aggressors in J&K and not India. The resolutions also stated that Pakistan should withdraw their forces along with the tribes and hand over power to the government of that day before India holds a plebecite. All these obligations were ignored by Pakistan but they expect India to honour the same. Lastly, most Indians find it extremely ironic that a General who seized power in a bloodless coup without bothering for the "wishes of the people" tells India to settle the "Kashmir dispute according to the wishes of the people." What Pakistani Generals and politicians do is their concern and that of the people of Pakistan. As Indians we have no right to lecture Pakistanis on how to run their country, but we do find it annoying (and in a way funny) when Pakistani authorities try to lecture us on democracy and human rights.

          Comment


            #6
            Farid, ultimately you have to realize that jehad, armed struggle, terrorism, anarchy or whatever you call it will not solve the Kashmir problem. Those who believe that the terroists will ultimately free Kashmir one and right now the Indian Army is on the run, live in a fool's paradise. India cannot afford to cede an inch of Kashmir just like Pakistan cannot afford to cede any part of PoK. Both have to cater to domestic constituencies. So the ONLY way to solve this imbroglio is across the discussion table. The euphoria generated in both the countries during the Agra summit reinforces the fact that common people want peace. Dialogue is the only way to acheive peace and not senseless, meaningless violence.

            Comment


              #7
              what do u expect? musharraf says last two years that he will meet at any time and any place. so how can he refuse when invitation is sent.

              Comment


                #8
                Bombay kid

                Shiv Sainiks burn Pak flag

                Half a dozen Sena activists took out Pakistani flags and set them afire
                before running away raising slogans against President Pervez Musharraf. http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jul/16inpak26.htm
                How many more such desecration ,burning ,vandalism ,have you kept hidden from us!!


                Between cities,Bombay (i refuse to call mumai ) is last in tolerence towards muslims right now.Even refugee city Delhi tolerates muslim better than Bombay,b/c of the shiv sainiks attitude pervasive therein bombay!!
                Nook:

                ------------------

                Woh afsaana jise anjaam tak, laana na ho mumkin
                Use ek KHoobsoorat moR dekar, chhoRna achha

                Comment


                  #9
                  Farid,
                  Read your post,..Thanx for sharing man,Can you plz answer one simple question here,..
                  What should have to be done otherwise,..?
                  As you don't seems to like Musharaf's visit to India.
                  Can plz give us the solutions,..I shall appreciate,.....
                  °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



                  A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I assume you don't expect answers to all your questions so I'll just pick what I like from your post, hope you won't mind.


                    >>The bottom line is that no spadework was done before attending the summit<<

                    Before going to India CE met the religious parties, businessmen, politicians. No one had expected every party or group to agree to everything CE had said, but he knew what was expected from him, and visa versa.

                    <<it looked President of Pakistan made fool of him>>

                    In what way? Did he make any promises that he couldn't keep; did he say anything that he didn't stand by? Come on, it's okay to criticize him, but you should have a valid point.

                    >>Was insulted by the Indians during the summit.<<

                    Hamph, my friend just came back from India, she told me that Indian TV even discussed their dresses, so they didn't really ignore him, which is one way to insult someone. It's also said that CE was probably given more attention than Bill Clinton. Sure a lot of indians would take the opportunity to remind CE about the forgotten war prisoners, and a lot of other things, we do have problems, else there would be no need for any summit. Whenever a leader visits another country (if he's worth any attention) ppl protest and do a lot of other things, nothing unusual happened during CE's visit to India.

                    >>Such visit should have not taken place which proved as wastage of time and money.<<

                    I guess it's useless to defend the visit now, or in future. Two enemies meeting, sitting in same room talking gotta be a major step.

                    >The out come of such future visits by the two persons would not be different than this one<

                    Hampf Allah swt ka wadah hai, mehnat ka sila zaroor milta hai.
                    BTW. There was no need to talk about the first lady, sounds pretty low.

                    >> farid if they really interested in solving the problemthey should have agreement
                    in hand before meeting takes place. <<

                    Chanda why would they waste time and money if they could agree on phone or something? What agreement should they have in hand? CE had one agenda I'm sure Mr. V wasn't un-prepared for the meeting either.


                    BK, you make it sound, as if CE is the first Pakistani who ever talked about Kashmir. We had democratically elected PM's but at that time India had other problems so there will always be lame excuses for Kashmir dispute. As for the UN resolutions, who is 'the government of that day'? Are we talking about IOK or Kashmir in general? If this is to be one of the steps in solving the Kashmir dispute then what guarantees a fair and human response from GOI?

                    ZZ, CE didn't have any reason for refusing the invitation, we have a strong case.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      sabah,
                      "As for the UN resolutions, who is 'the government of that day'? Are we talking about IOK or Kashmir in general?"

                      We are talking Indian Kashmir as the UN resolutions had declared Pakistan as the aggressors in J&K. Moreover if Pakistan feels that the Kashmir is disputed territory then they had no right to gift away parts of J&K to China. Who is Pakistan to decide whether certain parts of J&K belong to China if they think its a disputed territory ?

                      Anyway, I think he did the right thing by coming as he was invited by our PM. Things would have gone much better had he not decided to insult his hosts -- obviously meant for public consumption back home. We can hope for better times ahead but I would seriously doubt that the Pakistani army would be sincere and interested in solving disputes between our two nations. Since Gen Musharraf is not accountable to the public back home he can pretty much do what he wants to but if Vajpayee compromises even a little on India's security and national interests then he and his government will be history !!

                      [This message has been edited by BombayKid (edited July 18, 2001).]

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Since I don't have information about Askai Chen (sp?) I won't comment on that.

                        As for the disputed territory, even India used this term for Kashmir instead of atoot ang.

                        As for insulting the hosts, in what way? What did he do, if you're referring to the tea party, I believe India and Indians should be smart enough to understand how important that was. Frankly speaking BK, I'd say it's not Pak army but GOI who's playing games, what's the logic behind talking to Kashmiris without Pak and visa versa? India should be confident enough in her case to invite Kashmiri leaders even before Pak's request.

                        As for being accountable, CE's position is more on stake then Mr. V's as CE prolly would have been forced to stay up in the air had he compromised against Kashmiri ppl's wishes and Pak's nationa interests. He's accountable to the ppl of Pak and Pak forces.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          OK now 54 years have passed since independence and the things that would have been taken in a stride at that time will no longer happen easily because both sides have hardened their position and fought 3 and half wars on it.
                          summit has its advantages. people have got to know the general and what to expect of him. people believe that either side not budging an inch is a victory for themselves. that could be good for press. but that essentially means that no solution will be found unless one of the sides faces an overhelming military defeat. can military conflict be risked. if india gets early warning system and anti-missile devices, it can hope to stop nuclear designs of pak in bud and try conventional war. whoever wins, wins.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ZZ:
                            OK now 54 years have passed since independence and the things that would have been taken in a stride at that time will no longer happen easily because both sides have hardened their position and fought 3 and half wars on it.
                            summit has its advantages. people have got to know the general and what to expect of him. people believe that either side not budging an inch is a victory for themselves. that could be good for press. but that essentially means that no solution will be found unless one of the sides faces an overhelming military defeat. can military conflict be risked. if india gets early warning system and anti-missile devices, it can hope to stop nuclear designs of pak in bud and try conventional war. whoever wins, wins.
                            Good thoery for bollywood,..But Pakistan can still manage to get you guyz out,.and roast you in a matter of minutes,..don't Play ,..WHAT IF GAME HERE,....
                            Pakistan Army would love to teach you guyz whenever need arises,..But for your kind information,..stop reading children stories,...India has a mighty Armed Forces
                            Well if you believe this - God help you!
                            700,000 troops against a population of 4million?? The world's largest soldier to civilian ratio!! India has lost more men in
                            Siachin/Kargil/1971/1965/1949 than Pakistan - comparatively speaking...
                            The India Today, claimed the forces are now suffering from lack of desire for potential officer material, but if they are so hugh and
                            mighty - shouldn't people be wanting a career in the forces, like the US (and Pakistan)?Right now Indian Armed Forces needs 12,000
                            officers so bad, Can't find young people willing to go for Army anymore.Their new breed of indians just need easy and key punching
                            jobs...Indian Army have more shortages since Kargil.......

                            ...the list is endless, and this is but a mere tip of the ice berg...

                            °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



                            A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              if u believe pak will win, pak should go for war, roast india and get kashmir.

                              Comment

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