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    Musharraf has no alternative but to talk to India

    World doesn't want to deal with Pakistan they are trying very hard to show that they are reasonable people, solving problems with India is very high on their list.

    International community doesn't like countries supporting terriorism. I hope Indians are paying close attention to this...

    http://globeandmail.com/gam/Internat.../UPAKKNSB.html


    =============================================
    Pakistan seeks Canada's help in avoiding sanctions

    JEFF SALLOT

    Saturday, June 16, 2001


    OTTAWA -- Pakistan's leading diplomat is pleading for time, patience and understanding from Canada, saying he hopes Ottawa can normalize economic and political relations with his country in the fall.

    But Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar fears relations might deteriorate further if Canada and other Commonwealth countries increase the pressure to restore democracy.

    The possibility of sanctions against Pakistan will be at the top of the agenda when Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and other Commonwealth leaders meet in Australia in October.

    Pakistan was suspended from the organization after a military coup in 1999 deposed a democratically elected government that was considered by many Pakistanis to be riddled with corruption.

    Mr. Sattar said yesterday in an interview that Commonwealth suspension would be largely a symbolic gesture, but that economic sanctions would be another matter.

    Canada and other Western countries imposed limited sanctions on India and Pakistan in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons and Pakistan followed suit. The countries have fought three wars since 1947.

    Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf said yesterday he would seek to make a "new beginning" and "change history" with India in summit talks planned for next month.

    He said in remarks on state television that he would go to New Delhi to meet Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee with an open mind, and that it would be regrettable if there were no progress in the long-festering dispute over the Himalayan region of Kashmir.

    Ottawa is moving to normalize relations with India, a fast-growing country that Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley says Canada cannot ignore as a trading partner.

    But the Canadian government still freezes all but basic humanitarian aid to Pakistan, and votes at the World Bank to block new economic-development loans to the impoverished nation of 156 million people.

    Mr. Sattar met Mr. Manley yesterday, the first high-level contact between the two governments in almost two years, and explained his government's timetable for a return to democracy.

    The regime promises to hold elections by October of 2002, a deadline set by the Pakistan Supreme Court. But that's fully one year behind the Commonwealth deadline.

    "We are trying to foster political activism," Mr. Sattar said.

    The press is open and free, politicians from various parties have access to television for debates, and the current government hopes the politicians to be elected next year will have learned from the past to shun corruption, he said.

    Ninety-eight bureaucrats and politicians have been convicted of corruption in the last 18 months, he added, and cases are pending against many others.

    Mr. Sattar noted that Canada-India relations seem to be back on track despite continuing differences over nuclear proliferation. He expects Canada will give Pakistan the same consideration when democracy is restored.


    [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 16, 2001).]

    #2
    Ah screw canada.
    But where is the statement that Pakistan has to talk with india.
    Please show me as i didn't see it in the cut and paste.

    ------------------
    Our's not to reason why,
    Our's but to do and die:
    You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

    Comment


      #3
      Canada and other Western countries imposed limited sanctions on India and Pakistan in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons and Pakistan followed suit. The countries have fought three wars since 1947.

      Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf said yesterday he would seek to make a "new beginning" and "change history" with India in summit talks planned for next month.

      He said in remarks on state television that he would go to New Delhi to meet Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee with an open mind, and that it would be regrettable if there were no progress in the long-festering dispute over the Himalayan region of Kashmir.

      Ottawa is moving to normalize relations with India, a fast-growing country that Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley says Canada cannot ignore as a trading partner.


      But the Canadian government still freezes all but basic humanitarian aid to Pakistan, and votes at the World Bank to block new economic-development loans to the impoverished nation of 156 million people.
      Read the above Mr. Satter is trying to convince Canadian government that Pakis are reasonable people, Mushy is going to talk and Normalise relationship to India. It is the international pressure that is forcing Mushy to talk and behave, he has no choice...

      Comment


        #4
        Rani, who initiated the dialogue..was it Musharraf who invited Veggie-pie or the other way around. Get your facts right...

        Comment


          #5
          Sattar said that i am not blind.
          But your title of the thread is not correlated with the article.
          Where do the Canadians say we need to speak to india.
          And it is our choice.

          ------------------
          Our's not to reason why,
          Our's but to do and die:
          You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

          Comment


            #6
            Rani, who initiated the dialogue..was it Musharraf who invited Veggie-pie the other way around. Get your facts right...

            You have very short memory, Mushy has been begging for a meeting with India since he took power, finally India granted him one. Indians and International community knows what kind of International and internal pressure Mushy is under...

            From India's point of view Mushy is where we want him to be...



            [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 17, 2001).]

            Comment


              #7
              From India's point of view Mushy is where we want him to be...

              Yes write down your throats. Now a question for you. Guess who said the following in September 2000?

              "Every one is telling me that I should talk to Musharraf. How can I, when the bus from Lahore reached Kargil? And what will we talk about? Will I say, 'How's the weather' or will I ask, 'How are your wife and children'?"



              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Rani:
                Rani, who initiated the dialogue..was it Musharraf who invited Veggie-pie the other way around. Get your facts right...

                You have very short memory, Mushy has been begging for a meeting with India since he took power, finally India granted him one. Indians and International community knows what kind of International and internal pressure Mushy is under...

                From India's point of view Mushy is where we want him to be...

                [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 17, 2001).]
                LOL!!!

                Is this the same PM who said India never talks to dictators? India invited Mushraf not the other way round. India called a ceasfire! LOL!!! Now if India is winning(haha) on all fronts than why change the policy just carry on as it is. Why this BS if inviting Mushraf and calling off ceasefire etc...


                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rani:
                  [b]From India's point of view Mushy is where we want him to be...

                  [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 17, 2001).]

                  Let me add to that from India's point of view India is also the superpower and first world country.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Is this the same PM who said India never talks to dictators? India invited Mushraf not the other way round. India called a ceasfire! LOL!!! Now if India is winning(haha) on all fronts than why change the policy just carry on as it is.

                    Yes we wont talk to "dictators". We wont talk to "terrorists". We wont talk till "cross-border terrorism" stops. We wont, we wont, we wont. But look what is happening?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Poor rani hasn't had time to answer my question.
                      Guys be nice, you know that picking on the mentally challenged is not a good thing!!

                      ------------------
                      Our's not to reason why,
                      Our's but to do and die:
                      You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        In other words India is calling the shots...Mushy is just following the instructions

                        P.S. CM..your sick mentality is showing, reflection of your mental capacity, Btw, being friends with the moderator has always helped you in getting away with low IQ off the topic abusive bakwas.




                        [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 18, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          See today's 'Dawn'. If this is deal, why Pak fought for 53 yrs.


                          A deal on Kashmir inevitable!


                          By Masood Haider


                          Ever since the announcement of a Musharraf-Vajpayee parley in New Delhi some time next month the word in the diplomatic and official circles here is that both leaders would sign off on a deal on Kashmir, thus ending 53 years of bitter hostility over the valley which has seen several wars and killed thousands of Kashmiris and impeded the economic progress of the two countries.

                          It has been said and reported that Pakistan and India basically have a deal, except for one stumbling block. Then there always is that one all to crucial stumbling block which becomes a deal breaker. The deal, some insiders who claim to be in the loop, is that the so-called Line of Control would become the Pakistan-Indian border. Besides, Muzaffarabad or the present Azad Kashmir as we know it will become part of Pakistan, and India will get the bigger chunk of Srinagar and Jammu.

                          Many experts, including certain high officials who wished to remain unidentified, say that secret talks between Pakistan military and intelligence officials and the Indian military, intelligence and politicos based in Kashmir have been going on for quite some time. They also point out that such a deal between former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi and Pakistan military ruler Ziaul Haq almost came to fruition in 1985, just months before Mr Gandhi's government fell. Similarly, Mr Gandhi, back in power, had struck a deal with prime minister Benazir Bhutto in 1989 during her first term, but at that time the Pakistan army called it off by b*****ng Ms Bhutto a traitor to the Kashmir cause.

                          So, what's the stumbling block? There is disagreement over the transfer of militants from both sides. While Pakistan has accepted the deal to transfer thousands of Islamic militants to its side of the LoC, India is unwilling to accept its agents, who also number in thousands, back. These insiders say that once an agreement over this issue is reached, Gen Pervez Musharraf will travel to New Delhi and sign off on it, with Mr Vajpayee.

                          The mitigating factors for India to seek an early solution to the Kashmir imbroglio is the pressure placed on it by the powerful lobby of Indian business leaders in its silicon valley, in other words the South Indians. They say the immense potential of India's burgeoning information technology and the software industry cannot be realized until the threat of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan over the Kashmir issue is removed.

                          Besides, the Indian business lobby wants to normalize trade relations with Pakistan which in its own right has the potential to turn the economies of the two countries on a fast-paced economic growth, which can make it an economic engine which the West will shudder to ignore.

                          For Pakistan in particular a normalization of trade relations with India would be a massive shot in the otherwise anemic economic arm and it can slowly shed the trappings of international financial institutions, the IMF and the World Bank. The experts here believe that such a deal will certainly meet resistance from the extremists in both countries, who are liable to cry fowl, but given the political backdrop and the rapidly changing world environment the end would justify the means. They believe that both the BJP government in India and the military government in Pakistan would be able to overcome the inevitable protests and trouble which could brew following such a deal.

                          For Mr Vajpayee, the Kashmir deal will remove one big hurdle towards India's march to become a dominant power in the region and it would place itself as a counter-force against the giant Chinese economic engine which is troubling the United States. The United States as everyone now realises wants to position India as against China because it feels that it can do business with the world's biggest democracy as against the dictatorial communist China which threatens to undermine its super power status.

                          The envisaged summit between Prime Minister Vajpayee and Gen Musharraf is a good step, the Center for Strategic International Studies (CSIS) said in a report. The CSIS emphasized the importance of measures to follow up the summit. "With improved US-Indian relations, India may be more receptive to discreet American encouragement for this process."

                          The CSIS, in what it described as "the Pakistan Trap," said: "Ironically, India's hopes for a security vision grounded in an expanding international role and for stronger ties to the US will remain beyond reach unless it can sustain a serious effort to resolve its problems with Pakistan."

                          Besides, the upcoming visit to New Delhi by the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen Henry Shelton, "will re-launch high-level military contacts, suspended after the nuclear tests [conducted by India in 1998)," a US expert report said. Shelton, who had to postpone a trip to New Delhi earlier this month because of the Pentagon's quadrennial review, is scheduled to visit India in July.

                          Shelton's envisaged meeting with External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh, who also holds the defence portfolio, and the three Indian services chiefs, the CSIS said, "will give both sides an opportunity to understand each other's military doctrine and operational concepts. High-level military contact is critical to a serious security dialogue with the US, given the way the military is integrated into US civilian policy-making," it said.

                          The high-level exchanges that Washington has initiated "make clear that the US wants a strategic dialogue with India," and that "the dialogue itself will shape how the two countries ultimately deal with each other on security issues." The CSIS, privy to the US administration's thinking on these issues, said: "The US expects to maintain indefinitely a strong security presence in East Asia and in the Persian Gulf." Consequently, Washington would "like this presence to be regarded favorably by India, and it would like India at least to understand and preferably to share its view of how to strengthen the security of the region around the Indian Ocean."

                          Thus, it is no accident that following his visit to India, Gen Shelton will travel to the Gulf to meet military leaders and invariably to brief them about India's response to Washington's suggestion that it helps to beef up security in that region.

                          The CSIS noted that the US was developing "a set of strong relationships without the formal or military character of an alliance," in contrast to the network of alliances that characterized the Cold War. "It recognizes that it will have important policy differences with the countries in this network, like India," the report said, "but expects to isolate the problems and work co-operatively on shared interests."

                          Since Washington views the Indo-Pakistan dispute "with its nuclear dimension, as the biggest threat to the region's security, with the dangers of terrorism and of a weak Pakistan close behind," the report said, "in all these issues, Indian policies are crucial to regional peace." The CSIS said US restrictions on technology transfer will be, in Indian eyes, an "early test of the effectiveness of the new relationship with Washington."

                          Restrictions on the transfer of even the most innocuous nuclear-related items to India have been a sore subject for years, and several technical co-operation agreements, for example on the Indian light combat aircraft and supercomputers, floundered on internal policy differences in the US government and a complex bureaucratic process.

                          The CSIS said new restrictions like the "entities list", which was imposed in the aftermath of the May 1998 Pokhran nuclear tests, may not be relaxed by the US and, thus, "with all the excitement over improved US-India relations, the disappointment will be severe if nothing changes".

                          Some say if, in fact, Gen Musharraf pulls off the deal, he may ultimately be called the saviour of Pakistan, as economic rewards in wake of such an agreement would be many, and he may yet rule the roost for another decade.

                          Given the rapidly changing South Asian scenario, anything can happen!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            In other words India is calling the shots...Mushy is just following the instructions


                            Try to explain that LOGICALLY Rani in light of the following your PM said in Sept 2000:-


                            "Every one is telling me that I should talk to Musharraf. How can I, when the bus from Lahore reached Kargil? And what will we talk about? Will I say, 'How's the weather' or will I ask, 'How are your wife and children'?"


                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rani:
                              Rani, who initiated the dialogue..was it Musharraf who invited Veggie-pie the other way around. Get your facts right...

                              You have very short memory, Mushy has been begging for a meeting with India since he took power, finally India granted him one. Indians and International community knows what kind of International and internal pressure Mushy is under...

                              From India's point of view Mushy is where we want him to be...

                              [This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 17, 2001).]
                              Rani,

                              So by your admission P.M. Musharaff has been EAGER,Urging to have dialogue with India on Kashmir.

                              Even if Vajpayee invited ,it was India uptill now who was declining to talk with Pakistan

                              This the first time officially India has acknowledged Pakistan as party in Kashmir talk,

                              If Mussharaf was all along for the talk ,THEN THERE IS NO REASON ,A SANE PERSON WILL CALL IT BEING FORCED TO DO ,How do you explain your poor logic????????


                              If Muasharaff was not willing which is opposite of your facts as in your post ,how can you say that this not his wish come true ?

                              though through miracle of Vajpayees change of mind.I WONDER WHY???????

                              ------------------

                              Woh afsaana jise anjaam tak, laana na ho mumkin
                              Use ek KHoobsoorat moR dekar, chhoRna achha

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