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    PAKISTANIS IN USA,..And their problems.

    I would like to bring up some real issues, which are being faced by our fellow Pakistanis here.Every community has some problems,like Indians,Chinese and others.
    First of all,Due to the lack of required education here, people are working on odd jobs.Gas stations,Taxi drivers and working on Stores.Which is good in way they are helping their families in Pakistan by transferring their hard earn money.
    What makes me very concerned and others too, That Indians are working on key positions in the private sector here also, they are working on some visible spots too,Like President or VP of the big Hi-Tech industeries.They are highly qualified and more resouceful than us. Our people which means 2nd generation here doesn't seems to be intersted to get higher education and go into more challanging jobs, and compete with others.
    I hardly seen here in New York, who are software engineers or Electrical/Electronics or Doctors. I can count those professional on my finger tips, which means very few.
    We are here to take full advantage of the opportunities available to us by the system here and get higher education and become vital part of the community.
    America is known as the land of opportunities.are they getting full advantage of it ,..nooooooooo,..
    Therefore,.i shall be bringing up more examples and proof and topics in future for you all to know,..what's going on,..


    ATTENTION: Here what will be discussed will not be in anyway directed to any group, We gonna be using the term Pakistanis,....Wheter from NWFP,PUNJAB,SINDH or BALUCHISTAN,.....
    Here we are like family,....every member is our brother, sister etc,....
    Therefore I shall rquest you all be very logically clear and reasonable.

    I shall be giving real and truthful but thought provoking examples and will need everyone input on it.



    [This message has been edited by TARIQ786USA (edited May 23, 2001).]
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



    A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

    #2
    Brother, you feel the almost the same way. I see indians creeping every where. Not only higher posts, even at lower level like myself I see indians everywhere. There are several reasons. according to my limited analysis:

    we, as a Pakistani do not support other Pakistani. we do not refer other Pakistani to a job in our company. if somehow, another Pakistani is hired, the other gets scared that he might be in trouble now or the newly hired may get ahead of his title.

    when it comes to referral, hiring we STICK TO MERIT SELECTION (no national preference even if there is a tie). indians on the other hand do it reverse, support and refer other indian whether or not he/she is knowledgeable.

    why we go for odd jobs? its easy to start driving a taxi next day and make US$40-60k annually rather than going to school for 4-5 years thereby adding loan then start earning 40-45k annually. we want to be millionaire the next morning we awake.

    This is based on the attitudes of people I have seen/know. But it does not mean all Pakistanis are like this. There are good people too, but you'll have to do research to find them

    ------------------
    We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

    Comment


      #3
      Changez_like,
      I have read your convincing arguments, I appreciate you took some time and wrote those for everyone.
      I have one friend, He is from Rawalpindi,,he used to drive taxi but at the same time He went to College Got his BS in Mechanical Enginnering degree & then he got MS.
      But instead of working as a Mechanical Engineer, he gave himself a promotion, Before he used to drive Yellow Cab, now he drive LIMO service.
      When he completed his MS, I tried my best everywhere, in Big Hi-Tech companies for him to start with decent Salary and become successful, but His way of thinking was,I don't want to be a entry level engineer, because they pay little less. May be he ws thinking after MS with zero experience they gonna hire him Senior Mechanical Engineer.
      And starting salary would be like 100K plus.

      When I completed my BS in Computer Science in 1996, I started working as a entry level SW Engineerm Salary was good too.But while working, I did MS and my company paid for it, Also I already got couple of years experience in this field too. I changed the Company,now happy and thankful to God for what I am now.
      In life we have to start from somewhere, It doesn't matter with how much we gonna get.
      Now, what's more shameful and painful for us here is,..
      When the word " Pakistanis " comes to mind or discussed. They say, Oh those guyz who work on 7-Eleven Stores, Gas Stations etc.
      That is Our recognition here in New York.

      I tried my best and still trying to help my Own people here in any way I can. But the main problem is, Education and Legal status for some. Some of my friends are highly educated as they come from Pakistan on visiting Visas. But due to the legal status, they can't work in Companies, as they require the proof of residency now-a-days.

      Some of them came on Lottery Visas, they even don't have high school education in some cases.But, if they want to be someone, they can go to school here and get some education as they work, like all Americans.

      Here the concept of Education is totally different than Pakistan. There In Pakistan, Parents are responsible for expenditures, but here in USA, we have to earn ourselves and get education. Doesn't matter even if parents are multi-millionaire.

      As you said they want to be Millionaire over night, then no one can help them.I feel proud when I see any Pakistani on key position in any sector.
      Education is the key to success,.......it is true,..was true,...and will be true,....
      °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



      A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

      Comment


        #4
        it is nice to see pakistanis and indians
        working toghether in a neutral country
        it gives the both people oppurtunity to
        interact and coperate. both should help each other

        Comment


          #5
          rvikz,
          Thanx for sharing you prospective on this.Well, I like Pakistanis and Indians getting along here also, discussing or sharing their views. Atleast in a nuetral country we can communicate and find out about our differences. There are some differences which can be resolved just by discussing it.
          Unlike Kashmir, which like a hot potato, very sensitive and hot to touch. In the company I am working at, I have Indian Muslim who is our Vice President. Highly qualified and religious minded person.

          Have seen him Fasting during Ramadan, and praying 5 times,going to Mosque on Friday for prayer.I am from Pakistan and muslim sometime I am very lazy to just pray.
          In my other colleagues have one Hindu friend. me and him are getting along very well, actually sometime we discuss our Indian na d Pakistanis politics. Never had any problem our argument,Because some of the Indian foriegn policies he doesn't like, similarly, I disagree with some Pakistani Foriegn policies. The center of Our Foriegn policy is to show the world that India is kind a country where minorities are not safe and should be isolated from rest of the world. Same goes for India, they potray Pakistan as Rogue state.And they are trying their best to get Pakistan humiliated on International level.India give us plenty of reasons and same way we give them.
          But we must ask both countries, do the know the meaning of " CO-EXISTANCE ".
          Pakistan religious fanatics have zero tolerance and same way Indian RSS and other religious group have zero tolernace.
          And unfortunately,religion is being used in both countries.BABRI MOSQUE fiasco helped BJP to be elected. Same way in our Govt no Prime Minister or Martial Law Administartor can ignore Islamic parties.
          This is the main reason we have so many problems.

          Well God Help us all,.......
          °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



          A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

          Comment


            #6
            Tariq. Your observations may be true, but there are quite a lot of Pakistanis in very prominent positions (in all sectors) and yes there are many who are doing menial jobs because of various reasons, mainly the required work papers, etc. But in my observation, those who are in big positions dont feel a need to advertise their nationality. They would like to be judged on their merit, and not because they are from Pakistan. That is the big difference. If you live in New York, visit some of the local Hospitals and check out the names of the some of the most respected professionals in their fields. You might be surprised.

            It may be true in some cases that Pakistanis dont help other Pakistanis, but certainly an exaggeration. I have been helped by many Pakistanis at various points in my life, and I can never payback for the favors that I have be blessed to receive.

            Comment


              #7
              NYAhmadi,

              Thanx for taking time and sharing your views. I agree with you,they don't need publicity which is good.But what my point is, I am in software field. All Big Companies such as Computer Associate, Symbol Technologies,Rockwell International, SIEMENS COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS,..etc
              I worked in All and hasn't seen any Pakistani except Indians with Higher positions.May be one or two Pakistanis, but very low positions( Non-Technical ).
              What concerns me the most, Educationally we can compete with anyone. But If one Pakistani is successful in Stores business, like a cattle drive, everyone will follow samething without even thinking.There are millions of examples here.

              When I say good jobs, I mean white-collar High-Paid Salary jobs. I have one of my best friend he is Doctor and works in an hospital in Manhattan. He has and knows about our doctors,according to him and my observations we are being out-numbered by Indian doctors.
              I have a medical coverage from my company and they give us the directory for all doctors In New York State, so we can pick which one we like to have our primary physician. That directory is almost double the size of dictionary. If you go through that, you will see hardly like Close to hundred Pakistanis and like close to thousand Indian doctors.
              Just for my knowledge sake, I always take my time and check to see how are we competing in medical field.Which is discouraging.
              Now, same goes for My field Software Engineering. We have a ratio like 1:5 here in New York.One Pakistani and 5 Indians.

              I am not criticizing anyone for this. What my point is we should do everything to encourage our fellow Pakistanis to go to Colleges attaend evening classes if they have and move up.

              I had opportunity to get job at BrookHaven National Lab here on Long Island, New York.I just asked the person who was interviewing me that Is there any Pakistani scientist here?
              His answer was negative and he told me there are like 4 Indian scientists working in that Lab.Chinese and Indian are going in competition here.And Pakistanis are happy for being working on Low Positions or odd jobs.

              In my company, We need some temprary help from outside. We are always asked if we know anyone who can handle the job. I start calling everywhere asking friends or their friends anybody I can do to help.But can't find anybody. Even for simple projects.
              Here Americans even go back to school to change their fields or get more education to move up. But we Pakistanis want heaven but don't want to die for it.

              BUT ALWAYS HOPE FOR THE BEST AND SEE HELP FROM GOD ALMIGHTY,............



              [This message has been edited by TARIQ786USA (edited May 25, 2001).]
              °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



              A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TARIQ786USA:
                .
                Now, same goes for My field Software Engineering. We have a ratio like 1:5 here in New York.One Pakistani and 5 Indians.
                why 1:5 is discouraging? India's population is 7 times that of Pak so 1:5 is better than expected.

                Comment


                  #9
                  ZZ,
                  Thanx for stopping by and sharing with us you views.
                  I agree, india is 7 times bigger than Pakistan. Should we just sit and be happy that we are doing better than expected.What we want is or should be done is the main challange here. For some of our Pakistani brothers it's hard to go back to college. But those who can, must change their way of thinking.If we shoot for the stars may be we fell short and hit less than that, but still that's gonna be a good news for all of us.

                  We shouldn't take comfort in those numbers. That was the ratio for New York. It doesn't reflect in anyway for other big States. Therefore, we have to go long way.And must do better than this. And must help others in everyway as we can.

                  We make things happens for us with unity and with good vision.

                  °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



                  A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Lack of LOTTA at fast food chains is the biggest and common problem for subcontinent people

                    ------------------
                    Hey one more thing
                    These things are hard to explain
                    For some it seems strange... to swallow
                    The frontier of our minds
                    Is the last place we find
                    But maybe the first place we should go

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Rooster-Blues,
                      Point noted and will be conveyed to US CONGRESS,.....


                      Thanx for coming and bringing smiles on our faces.
                      °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



                      A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hmmmm... imagine a gora's reaction when faced with a lotta
                        Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                        Al-Ghazali

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I agree with NYAhmadi's reply. I've also been helped by many Pakistanis while I was starting my career. in fact, most Pakistanis here I've met are professionals. even if they can't get a job in their respective fields, they still are hard working people and are mostly away from the crimes.
                          There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the end the sword will always be conquered by the spirit. --Napoleon Bonaparte

                          Comment


                            #14
                            PureLand,
                            I agree there are some professional Pakistanis, But my question is being professional and working as a professional are two different things.
                            Sometime I see Pakistanis here who come from Pakistan, they have every required Experience and degrees, but what they do is, they start working in different filed which rquire less education and in some cases no experience.If they go and get some extra credits and go for their own field. Instead of working on stores or Gas Stations.

                            In Software Field the Landscape here in New York is chainging so fast can't even believe it. Indian programmers are flooding the Software industry here, as they are coming on H-1 Visas.All big software companies are sponsoring them.Because India is competing USA in this field.While Pakistan still lack the required software professional in and out of Pakistan.Germany is taking and hiring more Indian computer programmers than any other European nation.In few years India will be making more in foriegn in exchange from Work force than its exports.And Pakistan is starting now, what India started more than a decade ago.

                            We Pakistanis don't have any programmer coming from Pakistan,if there are, very few.
                            One thing for sure I know, If someone has education in any field he only needs good guidance to pursue his field. Which we must do and as we do it.

                            We must help those who needs our guidance and help them get to higher positions and become vital part.We shouldn't just take comfort in numbers, oh Indians are more than us here and we are doing better.This kind a thinking will never let us move ahead and compete.

                            °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`° ¤ø,¸°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ºÂ°`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º °`°º¤ø,¸,¸¸,ø¤º° ºÂ¤Ã¸



                            A Faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets.

                            Comment

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