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    Did Pakistan Survive!

    Indian leaders predicted fall of Pakistan as a nation just in one year after formation.
    Mr MA Jinnah had a defective vision of a Democratic Islamic State. That did not work. Orthodox Muslims opposed the very first liberal constitution of Pakistan, and brutal killing of first Prime Minister shattered the beginning, that followed one after another military rule. Two futile wars against India brought only miseries and Pakistan lost one of its parts. Former leaders of Pakistan are bound to live in exile.
    A strange study pattern has been followed, where anti-India is considered patriotism. So-called afghan revolutions, emigration and drugs trafficking have badly affected the people of Pakistan
    What is the position of Pakistan today? A corrupt and bankrupt nation with nuclear potentiality, that is worst than anything.
    Today Pakistanís existence is under threat not from Indian side but from Taliban. Just take some time and think!

    #2
    indian leaders presented a defected vision of a secular state to the rest of the world. a nation that was filled with hindu fanaticism to the very core of its social, political and religious structure was falsely presented to the rest of the world as a tolerant people. now they have vague imaginations of being a superpower. they have evil designs to cause destruction in all its neighboring countries, making them to succumb to their desires. everyone did, except pakistan. thats why we can see all indians having nights after nights of sleeplessness.
    this effects their budget planning, and they take all the money from the poor of their country and make nuclear weapons at an amazing pace. majority of indians live below the level of poverty. but they dont care for them. their aims are all too clear to he rest of the world, but hey its a big market. every country in the world wants to exploit it. so right now, they are overlooking every irresponsible move of india.
    but how long can this continue? take some time and think abt it.
    I'm cold seed, I'm your sweetest leaf
    I'll ease your mind, I'll set you free

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by skv anand:
      Indian leaders predicted fall of Pakistan as a nation just in one year after formation.
      Mr MA Jinnah had a defective vision of a Democratic Islamic State. That did not work. Orthodox Muslims opposed the very first liberal constitution of Pakistan, and brutal killing of first Prime Minister shattered the beginning, that followed one after another military rule. Two futile wars against India brought only miseries and Pakistan lost one of its parts. Former leaders of Pakistan are bound to live in exile.
      A strange study pattern has been followed, where anti-India is considered patriotism. So-called afghan revolutions, emigration and drugs trafficking have badly affected the people of Pakistan
      What is the position of Pakistan today? A corrupt and bankrupt nation with nuclear potentiality, that is worst than anything.
      Today Pakistanís existence is under threat not from Indian side but from Taliban. Just take some time and think!
      † †† †† †† ††††††††
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------


      Mr.Anand too much aanand like anand Margi Bhalo Nai,

      You killed 2 prime ministers in consecutive successionin shorter pereiod of time than any other nation.

      Just go through the long list of laundry list of troubles that will keep India bogged in its internal trouble for some time.

      But it is also possible just like in the movie "Wag the DOG" the studious student that Indians are these days of Learning every thing from Americans ,Vajpayee to divert attention from its collapsing coalition &empowerment of progressive porceses of leadrs like Sinia & Mamta Banerjee,VAJPAYEE might behave ytue to his name ATTAL,which means Stubborn as a mule.& attack azad Kasmir LOC or resort to insreased torure of innopcent muslims of Kashmir.

      Some of your troubles are self inflicted & result of hate mongering of its own 12% of its muslim population.

      Indian poltical terrorism is causing the coalition govt.to rock 4
      ministers to resign & P.M. disliked by all South & most of North Indians
      I/The Hyped economy of India on I.T. industry mainly has lost more than
      60% of its value in 1 month

      II/The diversionary tactics of
      a/burning Koran

      b/crocodile tears for buddhist when hindu vanquished buddhist the OLDEST
      religion than Hinduism.

      c/Babri ,accusation that muslim built over temple is not proven in court
      of LAW.

      d/False claim that haj subsidy was spl.previlege when Hindu getting it
      for ever & only in 93 after Babri episode Haj subsidy was started by
      Narsimha Rao.

      III/The 28% hike in defence budget makes the dying poor in slums of
      Calcutta.Mumai & Calcutta even more stark:Father feeding hia dead
      disabled daughter to dogs & cats!!!!

      Couples suiciding due to false projection on inherently bad financial
      policy!!

      Political terrorism of favours bribery ,nepotism,from aviation minister
      Sharasd Yadav to Bangaru of BJP govt Party ,to George Fernandes so
      called sacred cow turn out to be fallen sacrificial lambs!!

      †What do you have to say
      WHO HAS GREATER PROBLEM,??

      ------------------

      :

      When was i for real?
      I am myself a dream
      I always see you
      watching me tenderly

      Comment


        #4
        Lets see..economy growing at 6-7 percent for the last few years..projected to grow at the same rate for the next foreseeable future. Things are definitely looking up. One question for Toucan, when has pakistan achieved a growth rate even close to that? Maybe the Chinese can teach that. But can the mullah's read chinese? Stay tuned.

        Comment


          #5
          surviver of pakistan is a hopeless case ...
          He was a self made man who owed his lack of success to nobody.
          - Author on Cargill in 'Catch 22'

          Comment


            #6
            Why don't you indians learn to be objective for once.
            This is nothing but a bait post.
            I say freaking leave it, i am surprised it got 4 posts.

            ------------------
            CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

            Comment


              #7
              Mr Anand,see to India first and then Pakistan.Your country is a slave of fundamentaltists and mental retarted Hindus.In India,the lowest casts of Hindus are in very bad condition.Muslims,Christians and Sikhs are in also very bad condition.The incidents of Golden Temple,Babari Masjid and the destruction of Churches what says?All says that Hindus are not suitable for government.Mr Anand,you are in great darkness.You says about our political system.What is your political system?Your political system is full of terrorism.Mr Anand,you are a terrorist people.In 1971,India conquered the East Pakistan only on the back of teacherous Bengalis.India was making intrigues of East Pakistan.Your armed forces are so-called armed forces.Pkaistani forces are ghost for Indian forces.This is only your coward government who sends these coward men in the battle.In India,poverty is increasing day by day.Your foot paths are full of poor people but in Pakistan,there is no poverty like India.Read the Indian and Islamic history,your eyes will open.Pakistan is the country of Allah and Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH).No one on earth can destroy this sacred land.Mr Anand,today Pakistan is an atomic power and also a military power.We have good wepons than you.You are begging from Russia but we have our own technology.Our present government is good and try to make best.

              Comment


                #8
                Mr Anand,see to India first and then Pakistan.Your country is a slave of fundamentaltists and mental retarted Hindus.In India,the lowest casts of Hindus are in very bad condition.Muslims,Christians and Sikhs are in also very bad condition.The incidents of Golden Temple,Babari Masjid and the destruction of Churches what says?All says that Hindus are not suitable for government.Mr Anand,you are in great darkness.You says about our political system.What is your political system?Your political system is full of terrorism.Mr Anand,you are a terrorist people.In 1971,India conquered the East Pakistan only on the back of teacherous Bengalis.India was making intrigues of East Pakistan.Your armed forces are so-called armed forces.Pkaistani forces are ghost for Indian forces.This is only your coward government who sends these coward men in the battle.In India,poverty is increasing day by day.Your foot paths are full of poor people but in Pakistan,there is no poverty like India.Read the Indian and Islamic history,your eyes will open.Pakistan is the country of Allah and Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH).No one on earth can destroy this sacred land.Mr Anand,today Pakistan is an atomic power and also a military power.We have good wepons than you.You are begging from Russia but we have our own technology.Our present government is good and try to make best.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by skv anand:
                  Indian leaders predicted fall of Pakistan as a nation just in one year after formation.
                  Mr MA Jinnah had a defective vision of a Democratic Islamic State. That did not work. Orthodox Muslims opposed the very first liberal constitution of Pakistan, and brutal killing of first Prime Minister shattered the beginning, that followed one after another military rule. Two futile wars against India brought only miseries and Pakistan lost one of its parts. Former leaders of Pakistan are bound to live in exile.
                  A strange study pattern has been followed, where anti-India is considered patriotism. So-called afghan revolutions, emigration and drugs trafficking have badly affected the people of Pakistan
                  What is the position of Pakistan today? A corrupt and bankrupt nation with nuclear potentiality, that is worst than anything.
                  Today Pakistanís existence is under threat not from Indian side but from Taliban. Just take some time and think!
                  READ in Shame Anand
                  http://www.tribuneindia.com/20010331/edit.htm
                  http://www.tribuneindia.com/20010331/edit.htm
                  Alarming drop in female ratio in Punjab
                  Harminder Kaur

                  THE world has moved into the 21st century. There is a new vision and a
                  new environment. But little has changed in the attitude of the people of
                  Amritsar, Faridkot and Bathinda districts of Punjab towards the
                  girl-child. Just as it was done historically, in contemporary Punjab the
                  female child is doomed in these districts.

                  For over a century these districts have recorded an adverse male-female
                  sex ratio. The only difference is that earlier there was female
                  infanticide. Now through virulent use of technology there is induced
                  foeticide. The grossness of the new technology is the most visible in
                  Bathinda district. Its impact is reflected equally grossly in the birth
                  records maintained by the Civil Hospital, Bathinda.

                  The latest figures made available for child births in 1999 by the Civil
                  Hospital, Bathinda (compilation of 2000 is not completed yet) are an
                  eye-opener. There remains an adverse female sex ratio in every single
                  month of the year. There were a total of 6107 male and 4547 female
                  births in the urban areas and 8360 male and 6195 female births in the
                  rural areas. The ratio in rural and urban areas was near equal. The
                  total male births was 57.4 per cent in urban areas versus 57.3 per cent
                  in rural areas. Female births in rural areas was 42.5 per cent versus
                  42.6 per cent in urban areas. In other words education has had little
                  influence on peoples decision to terminate female foetuses. Statistics
                  also reflect that abortion of female foetuses is happening consistently
                  in the district.

                  The Civil Surgeon at the Bathinda hospital, Dr Bawa Ram Gupta could
                  count 40 ultrasound clinics on his fingertips. A majority of them are on
                  Mall Road and Goniana Road. These clinics are doing such roaring
                  business that even doctor-wives of government doctors have now joined
                  the race of setting up sex determination clinics. Ultrasonography
                  remains the most popular method of sex determination here. Though new
                  technologies have been added. XY sperm separation technique is the
                  latest technology in vogue here. The technique enables parents to select
                  a child of their choice.

                  The Central Government enacted The Pre-natal Diagnostic Techniques
                  Regulation and Prevention Act in 1994. Two years later, in 1996, the
                  Punjab Government implemented it. The need arose because tests like
                  Amniocentesis which were meant to detect genetic disorders began to be
                  misused for determining began to be misused for determining the sex of
                  the foetus and aborting the female. Despite the legislation the
                  grossness has only increased. Precious little has been done to implement
                  the law. Doctors have been doing a roaring business because they cater
                  to a clientele which has nursed a mindset against having a girl-child
                  for over a century.

                  Only reasons have changed. First there was fear that invaders will
                  violate the modesty of girls. Then they wanted to eliminate the girls
                  because law provided them equal share and the landed did not want
                  fragmentation of land between the daughters in-laws and the sons. Now
                  in a small sized family norm there is no place for the girl child. As a
                  result increasingly the female is doomed at the foetal stage.

                  The fallout of such practices hit one like an ominous foreboding in
                  Jeeda village. Even after driving nearly half a kilometre into the
                  village the girl-child was conspicuous by her absence. The cacophony of
                  noise by little boys rent the air as they ran through the bylanes. But
                  there were no girls among them. If this remains the pattern time will
                  not be far when the district will be plunged to old times. Just over
                  half a century ago a brides family had to be given a dowry to marry a
                  boy here because there were no girls. They were killed as soon as they
                  were born. Girls were scarce, therefore, in most families only the
                  eldest son got married.

                  Bhagwan Kaur has no qualms in telling the truth that no one wants a
                  daughter. She quotes a traditional saying to explain the peoples point
                  of view: Dhiyan wale aut jandge/puttan waleyan de jagan ge diye (The
                  one who have daughters will die without carrying on the family name/the
                  light of those who have sons will continue to burn).

                  The Scheduled Caste women are forthcoming on reasons. Explains Surjit
                  Kaur of Jeeda village: If upper caste women go on giving birth to
                  girls, their men remarry. Mother in-laws call them names like Dhote
                  khuran wali (woman with white feet which means an ill omen) or as
                  someone responsible, for Rs 5 lakh decree against the family. Decree
                  because at least Rs 5 lakh would have to be spent on the wedding of a
                  girl hence the monetary loss to the family. Women naturally dont want
                  to go through such a torture.

                  The way out, says Angrez Kaur of Gillpati village, is that: the
                  government should take stern action against those taking dowry. Things
                  will change.

                  Pratap Singh, a former sarpanch of Gillpati village, goes on to explain
                  that earlier the expense on a girls marriage was anywhere between Rs 2
                  lakh and 3 lakh. Now there is an expense of around Rs 15 lakh. First we
                  raise a daughter then spend Rs 15 lakh on her wedding. Where do we have
                  this kind of income from land now.

                  There are others who explain that the growing consumer market has
                  promoted greed among the grooms family. A grooms family today expects
                  a wedding to be held in a Palace (A banquet hall). In addition they
                  want all consumer items from a refrigerator, television, car and even
                  cash. And still says Balwant Kaur of Sibia village: In-laws treat a
                  daughter-in-law like a blank cheque which can be encashed any time. You
                  may give any amount of money and still there is no guarantee that your
                  daughter will be treated well. Out of such circumstances people do not
                  want girls.

                  The situation is getting from bad to worse in the last decade or so.
                  Earlier at least the first conception was accepted whether it was a
                  boy or girl. If the first child was a girl the mother was definitely
                  taken for a Pre-natal Sex Determination Test (PNSDT). Most women now say
                  that they do not want a girl at all. If the first child is a boy the
                  family still insists for a second male to make a jora a pair.

                  This has permeated to some extent among the lower castes also but a
                  lesser number among them resort to foeticide. They also find the cost of
                  PNSDT high. Surjit Kaur has three daughters. But she doesnt think her
                  daughters are a burden on her. Primarily because among them a wedding of
                  a daughter costs only Rs 2000 to 3000 she says. Besides, a majority of
                  the Scheduled Caste families eke a living out of agriculture labour
                  jobs. More working hands means more money. Surjit Kaur finds her girls
                  an asset merely because: We rear cattle. They are a great help in
                  handling cow dung or household work. Travelling through the villages of
                  Bathinda district in one village after another Jeeda, Gillpati, Sibia,
                  Jhumba, Kheta... it was the same story. An increasing number of women
                  from landed families abort female foetus.

                  The worst is that women are not only aware of PNSDT but they also
                  approve of it. Women say that when Nagpal Dr G.S. Nagpal who has an
                  ultrasound clinic on Mall Road in Bathinda introduced the facility
                  about 10 years ago hand bills were distributed in their village. Today
                  women repeat the slogans given by the doctors: Better to spend Rs 1000
                  now than Rs 5 lakh later in justification to their going in for sex
                  determination tests.

                  The clinics actually draw a dual benefit. A PNSDT takes place between
                  the 14th and 16th week of pregnancy. Government hospitals do not carry
                  out an MTP after 12 weeks. Therefore women have to rely on the
                  termination or pregnancy also on the private clinics who charge for
                  PNSDT and MTP a sum of Rs. 4000- Rs 5000.

                  In case of X-Y separation the cost is even higher. The success rate is
                  only 70 per cent for couples wanting boys. Thus often couples go back to
                  the doctors three to four times and pay anywhere between Rs 15,000 and
                  Rs 20,000 just to have a boy.

                  Over the years a well oiled network has developed to promote businesses
                  of ultrasound clinics. According to Mr Raj Kumar, a clinical
                  psychologist, and a Voluntary Health Association of Indias Bathinda
                  representative, the local registered medical practitioners act as PROs
                  to generate business for private clinics in the city. There are nearly
                  150 RMPs in the city alone. There are 8 to 10 RMPs in each village.
                  There are 250 villages in the district. This means that roughly there
                  are nearly 2500 RMPs in the district who are the veins and arteries of
                  the flourishing ultrasonography clinics.

                  As a doctor said on condition of anonymity: It is a pure demand and
                  supply business. Because there is demand such clinics are
                  proliferating.

                  This holds serious consequences of male-female ratio imbalance. The
                  common man is not concerned with it. Says former sarpanch Pratap Singh:
                  ap bacho jo houga dekha jaoga (save yourself, whatever the
                  consequences well see).

                  In such a situation only more stringent implementation of law may help
                  to bring a change. For female foeticide is not merely an issue that
                  impacts the adverse sex ratio but percolates to other areas of female
                  well-being. Their access to good food, education and health care. Above
                  all it raises concerns about increasing misuse of medical technology as
                  well as violation of medical ethics.



                  SPIRITUAL NUGGETS

                  In love no longer 'thou' and 'I' exist, For self has passed away in the
                  Beloved...

                  He who would know the secret of both worlds,

                  Will find the secret of them both in love.

                  Attar, Mystic of Nishapur. From M. Smith, The Persian Mystics

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Infoman:
                    Lets see..economy growing at 6-7 percent for the last few years..projected to grow at the same rate for the next foreseeable future. Things are definitely looking up. One question for Toucan, when has pakistan achieved a growth rate even close to that? Maybe the Chinese can teach that. But can the mullah's read chinese? Stay tuned.
                    5% growth rate with 15% inflation &80% unemployment ,60% loss in equity,in last 6 months,rampant corruption lowering credit rating & investment confidence,spate of hoplessness in middle class by precipitous drop in stock price coupled with insider trading by the chair man of bse Shibe ,what is the silver lining mr. Inf Oman ?????????????????

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Well said scratch..........
                      mr. anand...sorry to say that, I havn't met an imposter like you....your (indian's) hatred towards Pakistan was from the day we got independence and your evil designs have no end.....what's the comparison of india with Pakistan....as some one said the Pakistanis are like gosts for the indians...which was proved in 1965 war and the kargil battle was like the worst nightmare for the indians.......how could you forget those defeats..
                      I have no idea as to why are you mentioning our polititians, first look at you politicians who is metally retarded...who have no indea what is he doing in Kashmir, just to save his power...destruction of Babrie mosque, killing of the minorities for the sack of his god damn power......how could you compare such a jerk with our CE...
                      our CE is doing fine....and he will bring Pakistan from this well of difficulties (Inshallah)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        [QUOTE]Originally posted by FYI:
                        [B] READ in Shame Anand
                        http://www.tribuneindia.com/20010331/edit.htm
                        http://www.tribuneindia.com/20010331/edit.htm
                        Alarming drop in female ratio in Punjab
                        Harminder Kaur

                        THE world has moved into the 21st century. There is a new vision and a
                        new environment. But little has changed in the attitude of the people of
                        Amritsar, Faridkot and Bathinda districts of Punjab towards the
                        girl-child. Just as it was done historically, in contemporary Punjab the
                        female child is doomed in these districts.

                        For over a century these districts have recorded an adverse male-female
                        sex ratio. The only difference is that earlier there was female
                        infanticide. Now through virulent use of technology there is induced
                        foeticide. The grossness of the new technology is the most visible in
                        Bathinda district. Its impact is reflected equally grossly in the birth
                        records maintained by the Civil Hospital, Bathinda.

                        The latest figures made available for child births in 1999 by the Civil
                        Hospital, Bathinda (compilation of 2000 is not completed yet) are an
                        eye-opener. There remains an adverse female sex ratio in every single
                        month of the year. There were a total of 6107 male and 4547 female
                        births in the urban areas and 8360 male and 6195 female births in the
                        rural areas. The ratio in rural and urban areas was near equal. The
                        total male births was 57.4 per cent in urban areas versus 57.3 per cent
                        in rural areas. Female births in rural areas was 42.5 per cent versus
                        42.6 per cent in urban areas. In other words education has had little
                        influence on peoples decision to terminate female foetuses. Statistics
                        also reflect that abortion of female foetuses is happening consistently
                        in the district.

                        The Civil Surgeon at the Bathinda hospital, Dr Bawa Ram Gupta could
                        count 40 ultrasound clinics on his fingertips. A majority of them are on
                        Mall Road and Goniana Road. These clinics are doing such roaring
                        business that even doctor-wives of government doctors have now joined
                        the race of setting up sex determination clinics. Ultrasonography
                        remains the most popular method of sex determination here. Though new
                        technologies have been added. XY sperm separation technique is the
                        latest technology in vogue here. The technique enables parents to select
                        a child of their choice.

                        The Central Government enacted The Pre-natal Diagnostic Techniques
                        Regulation and Prevention Act in 1994. Two years later, in 1996, the
                        Punjab Government implemented it. The need arose because tests like
                        Amniocentesis which were meant to detect genetic disorders began to be
                        misused for determining began to be misused for determining the sex of
                        the foetus and aborting the female. Despite the legislation the
                        grossness has only increased. Precious little has been done to implement
                        the law. Doctors have been doing a roaring business because they cater
                        to a clientele which has nursed a mindset against having a girl-child
                        for over a century.

                        Only reasons have changed. First there was fear that invaders will
                        violate the modesty of girls. Then they wanted to eliminate the girls
                        because law provided them equal share and the landed did not want
                        fragmentation of land between the daughters in-laws and the sons. Now
                        in a small sized family norm there is no place for the girl child. As a
                        result increasingly the female is doomed at the foetal stage.

                        The fallout of such practices hit one like an ominous foreboding in
                        Jeeda village. Even after driving nearly half a kilometre into the
                        village the girl-child was conspicuous by her absence. The cacophony of
                        noise by little boys rent the air as they ran through the bylanes. But
                        there were no girls among them. If this remains the pattern time will
                        not be far when the district will be plunged to old times. Just over
                        half a century ago a brides family had to be given a dowry to marry a
                        boy here because there were no girls. They were killed as soon as they
                        were born. Girls were scarce, therefore, in most families only the
                        eldest son got married.

                        Bhagwan Kaur has no qualms in telling the truth that no one wants a
                        daughter. She quotes a traditional saying to explain the peoples point
                        of view: Dhiyan wale aut jandge/puttan waleyan de jagan ge diye (The
                        one who have daughters will die without carrying on the family name/the
                        light of those who have sons will continue to burn).

                        The Scheduled Caste women are forthcoming on reasons. Explains Surjit
                        Kaur of Jeeda village: If upper caste women go on giving birth to
                        girls, their men remarry. Mother in-laws call them names like Dhote
                        khuran wali (woman with white feet which means an ill omen) or as
                        someone responsible, for Rs 5 lakh decree against the family. Decree
                        because at least Rs 5 lakh would have to be spent on the wedding of a
                        girl hence the monetary loss to the family. Women naturally dont want
                        to go through such a torture.

                        The way out, says Angrez Kaur of Gillpati village, is that: the
                        government should take stern action against those taking dowry. Things
                        will change.

                        Pratap Singh, a former sarpanch of Gillpati village, goes on to explain
                        that earlier the expense on a girls marriage was anywhere between Rs 2
                        lakh and 3 lakh. Now there is an expense of around Rs 15 lakh. First we
                        raise a daughter then spend Rs 15 lakh on her wedding. Where do we have
                        this kind of income from land now.

                        There are others who explain that the growing consumer market has
                        promoted greed among the grooms family. A grooms family today expects
                        a wedding to be held in a Palace (A banquet hall). In addition they
                        want all consumer items from a refrigerator, television, car and even
                        cash. And still says Balwant Kaur of Sibia village: In-laws treat a
                        daughter-in-law like a blank cheque which can be encashed any time. You
                        may give any amount of money and still there is no guarantee that your
                        daughter will be treated well. Out of such circumstances people do not
                        want girls.

                        The situation is getting from bad to worse in the last decade or so.
                        Earlier at least the first conception was accepted whether it was a
                        boy or girl. If the first child was a girl the mother was definitely
                        taken for a Pre-natal Sex Determination Test (PNSDT). Most women now say
                        that they do not want a girl at all. If the first child is a boy the
                        family still insists for a second male to make a jora a pair.

                        This has permeated to some extent among the lower castes also but a
                        lesser number among them resort to foeticide. They also find the cost of
                        PNSDT high. Surjit Kaur has three daughters. But she doesnt think her
                        daughters are a burden on her. Primarily because among them a wedding of
                        a daughter costs only Rs 2000 to 3000 she says. Besides, a majority of
                        the Scheduled Caste families eke a living out of agriculture labour
                        jobs. More working hands means more money. Surjit Kaur finds her girls
                        an asset merely because: We rear cattle. They are a great help in
                        handling cow dung or household work. Travelling through the villages of
                        Bathinda district in one village after another Jeeda, Gillpati, Sibia,
                        Jhumba, Kheta... it was the same story. An increasing number of women
                        from landed families abort female foetus.

                        The worst is that women are not only aware of PNSDT but they also
                        approve of it. Women say that when Nagpal Dr G.S. Nagpal who has an
                        ultrasound clinic on Mall Road in Bathinda introduced the facility
                        about 10 years ago hand bills were distributed in their village. Today
                        women repeat the slogans given by the doctors: Better to spend Rs 1000
                        now than Rs 5 lakh later in justification to their going in for sex
                        determination tests.

                        The clinics actually draw a dual benefit. A PNSDT takes place between
                        the 14th and 16th week of pregnancy. Government hospitals do not carry
                        out an MTP after 12 weeks. Therefore women have to rely on the
                        termination or pregnancy also on the private clinics who charge for
                        PNSDT and MTP a sum of Rs. 4000- Rs 5000.

                        In case of X-Y separation the cost is even higher. The success rate is
                        only 70 per cent for couples wanting boys. Thus often couples go back to
                        the doctors three to four times and pay anywhere between Rs 15,000 and
                        Rs 20,000 just to have a boy.

                        Over the years a well oiled network has developed to promote businesses
                        of ultrasound clinics. According to Mr Raj Kumar, a clinical
                        psychologist, and a Voluntary Health Association of Indias Bathinda
                        representative, the local registered medical practitioners act as PROs
                        to generate business for private clinics in the city. There are nearly
                        150 RMPs in the city alone. There are 8 to 10 RMPs in each village.
                        There are 250 villages in the district. This means that roughly there
                        are nearly 2500 RMPs in the district who are the veins and arteries of
                        the flourishing ultrasonography clinics.

                        As a doctor said on condition of anonymity: It is a pure demand and
                        supply business. Because there is demand such clinics are
                        proliferating.

                        This holds serious consequences of male-female ratio imbalance. The
                        common man is not concerned with it. Says former sarpanch Pratap Singh:
                        ap bacho jo houga dekha jaoga (save yourself, whatever the
                        consequences well see).

                        In such a situation only more stringent implementation of law may help
                        to bring a change. For female foeticide is not merely an issue that
                        impacts the adverse sex ratio but percolates to other areas of female
                        well-being. Their access to good food, education and health care. Above
                        all it raises concerns about increasing misuse of medical technology as
                        well as violation of medical ethics.

                        AND this is the cause of missing 40 million teen hindu girls in lowering the hindu combined population less than population growth of muslim!DONT BLAME INDIAN MUSLIMS UNNECESSARILY!

                        Population of Minorities





                        Population of Minorities

                        In a letter to the editor of a New Delhi based national daily a reader,
                        Ram Bharose, wrote:

                        Sir:
                        Hindus all over the world are getting sick and tired of being pushed
                        around in their own country...We are tired of the Governments
                        appeasement of the Muslims. Why should they be allowed to have four
                        wives in order to procreate more so that one day they will out-number
                        our Hindu brethren? Yours faithfully,
                        Ram Bharose.


                        The letter hardly says anything that has not been said before, by
                        communal propagandists. Bal Thackeray too, reportedly, alleged that
                        Muslims had increased from 10 to 25 crores in the last two years.
                        Communal forces of the Sangh Parivar have pilloried the Muslim minority
                        community for the explosive growth of the Indian population. With great
                        conviction they express reasons why Muslims will soon outnumber Hindus.
                        Their reasoning goes like this:


                        * as Muslims are allowed to have four wives, they invariably have more
                        children.
                        * as they generally are opposed to family planning, the birth rate among
                        them is much higher than in other religious communities.
                        * their numbers have also been increasing due to conversions.
                        * their growth rate being higher they will soon outnumber Hindus.


                        These and other allegations are made so often by the communal forces
                        that they become cliches accepted as facts. And when communal forces
                        take control, the dividing line between myth and reality gets blurred.
                        Facts, on the other hand, are deliberately ignored and suppressed as for
                        instance, the in-depth survey project that had been carried out by the
                        Anthropological Survey of India (ASI) in 1994. Its findings set at rest
                        some of the entrenched myths but are conveniently overlooked by those
                        with prejudiced minds. (See box)
                        MYTH Muslims do not practice family planning because of their religion"
                        FACT According to the Operation Research Group (ORG)1 of Baroda, the
                        number of Muslims practicing birth control is increasing: Couples
                        Practicing Family Planning
                        1. Couples in child bearing age -
                        YEAR AMONG HINDUS AMONG MUSLIMS
                        1970 14.0% 09.0%
                        1980 36.1% 22.5%
                        1988-1989 46.0% 34.0%
                        2. Eligible couples
                        1970-1980 22.1% increase among Hindus
                        13.5% increase among Muslims
                        1980-1989 10.0% among Hindus
                        11.0% among Muslims
                        * According to a 1980 ORG survey, 52% among Muslims and 9% among Hindus
                        refused to accept family planning but for the period 1980-1989, (i)
                        11.5% additional Muslims began to accept permanent family planning
                        methods, and for the same period 10% more Hindus accepted permanent
                        methods of family planning and (ii) acceptance of temporary birth
                        control methods increased by 5 to 10% Evidently, Muslims are
                        increasingly taking to family planning especially in recent times.
                        MYTH Muslims have a higher rate of growth of population (and will soon
                        outnumber Hindus).
                        FACT The population growth figures do not support this claim. The growth
                        rate of Muslims is only marginally higher than that of Hindus. There has
                        been no dramatic increase in the Muslim population, as compared to
                        Hindus. The following will corroborate this point: * In 1951 there were
                        3.5 crore Muslims and 32.3 crore Hindus * In 1981 there were 7.6 crore
                        Muslims and 55 crore Hindus The percentage of population according to
                        religion is as follows: Percentage of Hindus: 1961 Census - 83.45%
                        1981 Census - 82.35%
                        Percentage of Muslims:1961 Census - 10.69%
                        1981 Census - 11.73%
                        In spite of these facts, the forces of the Hindu right attempt at
                        undermining the intelligence of the masses by propagating that Muslims
                        will outnumber Hindus in the not-too-distant future.
                        Trends In Fertility Levels
                        RURAL URBAN
                        1971 1981 %Decline 1971 1981 %Decline
                        Between 1971-81 Between 1971-81
                        HINDUS 174 141 20.0 119 123 20.1
                        MUSLIMS 191 163 17.3 178 145 18.5
                        Source:Census of India,1991.
                        Muslims will Never Outnumber Hindus
                        On the question of the link between religion and fertility, demographers
                        point out that the former has no significant impact on fertility.
                        Sociologist, R.A.Chaudhary, states, "The observed differences in
                        fertility are mostly due to socio-economic differences between Muslims
                        and other religious groups. Once these differences are accounted for the
                        fertility differences between Muslims and other religious communities
                        will largely disappear".
                        Worth noting too is the curious reversal of the pattern in Jammu and
                        Kashmir, a Muslim majority State. The fertility rate of Hindus here is
                        almost twice that of Muslims. According to recent figures for 1989-90,
                        the State had a lower birth rate (31.4 per 1000) than U.P(36.5),
                        M.P(36.4), Bihar(34.8) and Rajasthan (33.4).
                        If religion is the sole or the most important yardstick for fertility,
                        this could not have happened! Further, the situation in more advanced
                        States -- advanced in social terms -- like Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and
                        Karnataka, the fertility rate is low for both Hindus and Muslims. This
                        suggests that socio-economic backwardness leads to higher fertility.
                        That it is indeed so is borne out by data given by the Registrar General
                        of India: fertility levels decline with an increase in the level of
                        education and per capita monthly expenditure (i.e higher the per capita
                        expenditure, lower the fertility)
                        Other crucial factors influencing population growth rate include (i)
                        Education and (ii) Infant Mortality Rate (The number of infant deaths
                        per 1000 children born alive in a year)
                        (i) According to R.H.Cassen, a social scientist with the London School
                        of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, "The contribution of education to
                        fertility decline is not just by the alternation of parent's
                        aspirations, but by the spread of rationality itself. The basic
                        differentiator of those for whom babies just come and those for whom the
                        number that come as a result of more or less deliberate choice, seems so
                        often to be education". According to a National Survey Sample of 1990
                        the level of education for every 1,000 persons in every age group, is
                        lower for Muslims (compared to Hindus) both in rural and urban areas --
                        and this is particularly true among women.
                        (ii) On the relationship between IMR and fertility Cassen further
                        observers,"...what people want is not just children but surviving
                        children. When children are known to be likely to die, the whole
                        psychological nature of child-bearing is likely to be far removed from
                        the careful consideration of supportable numbers.
                        In sum, the real reason for high fertility rates among Muslims are low
                        socio-economic achievements in terms of literacy and education, health
                        and nutrition, and the status of women. It has nothing to do with
                        religion as such.
                        MYTH "As Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives they invariably have more
                        children"
                        FACT This statement is false because :
                        *Polygamy exists among both Hindus and Muslims. It is legally sanctioned
                        among Muslims to marry four wives. Among Hindus and other communities
                        though it is illegal there is virtual social sanction for such
                        marriages. The question however is: how many men actually marry four
                        times? According to the Government census of 1961 its survey of
                        polygamous marriages the findings were as follows:
                        * polygamous marriages were highest among adivasis, Buddhists, Jains,
                        and Hindus, in that order. Muslims figured last on the list. * The
                        National Survey Commission on the Status of Women in India (1975) found
                        that incidence of bigamy and polygamy is higher among Hindus than
                        Muslims.
                        Year Polygamous Hindu families Polygamous Muslim families
                        1931-41 6.79% 7.29%
                        1941-51 7.15% (0.09% more than Muslims) 7.06%
                        1951-61 5.06% (0.65% more than Muslims) 4.31%
                        * Moreover, according to this Report, this practice was lower for
                        Muslims than for Hindus for the later two decades. Infact, Indian
                        Muslims generally don't have four wives barring exceptions. Thus it is
                        very clear that the extent of polygamy among Muslims is either same or
                        less than among Hindus and secondly due to polygamy the Muslims
                        population growth cannot be higher than the Hindus population growth.
                        Lastly, the logic of polygamy leading to a population explosion has no
                        basis since the reproductive rate is dependent on the number of women in
                        the reproductive age group. Whatever one may think of polygamy, it is
                        clear that the question of whether four women share a common husband or
                        have separate ones is immaterial to their reproductive capacity.
                        MYTH Muslim population is also rising due to conversions. Witness
                        Meenakshipuram in Tamil Nadu in 1981. And was not the right to
                        propagation of religion included in the Constitution at the insistence
                        of Christians and Muslims?
                        FACT Article 25 does indeed permit "freedom of conscience and free
                        profession, practice and propagation of religion." The "propagation"
                        aspect was debated in the Constituent Assembly. But it was pointed out
                        that propagation was in any case inherent in the fundamental right to
                        "freedom of speech and expression" (Art.19(1)a) and that including the
                        word "propagation" in Art.25 conferred no additional right. In any case,
                        the right of propagation is universal and available to Hindus as much as
                        to any other community or denomination. And that right has reportedly
                        been exercised by Hindu bodies as well to convert or reconvert adivasis,
                        Muslims and Christians in different parts of the country, including
                        Meenakshipuram. The Statesman of April 10,1992 documented one such case
                        in a cluster of Muslim villages in Hathras district U.P. The reporter,
                        Vidya Subramaniam, found BJP and RSS involvement. Conversion by force,
                        fraud or inducement is barred and the rights conferred by Art.25 are
                        specifically made subject to "public order, morality and health" and to
                        all other fundamental rights. The age of mass conversions is over,
                        especially in a plural, multi-religious society. Such events might still
                        take place, but they will obviously be subject to the most searching
                        scrutiny. These are, anyway, rare incidents nowadays.
                        References:


                        1. Bakshi, Ms.Rajni, "Some Myths and Misunderstandings About Muslims",
                        Centre For Education and Documentation (CED), Bombay,1993 2. Bhandare,
                        N., (et.al.), "A Pampered Minority?" Sunday, February 7, 1993. 3.
                        Mistry, M.B., "Muslim Polygamy:Myth & Reality", Frontier, Calcutta,
                        August 8,1992
                        4. `Communal Harmony', Janata, New Delhi, April 1993. 5. Molake, No.1 &
                        2, Bangalore, April, 1993. 6. Krishnakumar,A., "Canards on Muslim,"
                        Frontline, Madras, October 12th 1991.
                        7. Subramaniam, N.V., "The Way We Are : An Anthropological Survey of
                        India project shatters some entrenched Myths", SUNDAY, April 10, 1994.

                        ------------------


                        barque(bijli) yoon akadti hai apne karname pe ke
                        jaise phir naya hum aashiyaan bana nahi sakte

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hewolf and who is against history,

                          War of 1965 was not a victory for anyone, though yours were looser. You are given an incorrect data of the conflict. Pakistan lost 710 sq miles of land, and captured 210 sq miles of Indian territory.
                          Your history books boast of capturing 2000sq miles of Indian land. Casualties on Indian side were 3261 dead, including 359 lost and 8444 wounded. You are told that 10000 Indian soldiers were killed.

                          Pak POW counted 734 and from Indian side 1083 soldiers taken POW. May be this you consider a victory.

                          Many in Pak have started a new theory of 1971 war, that it was not a decisive victory of India but of Bangla Desh, a muslim country. Kargil incident took place not long ago, and you are becoming so naÔve!

                          It is your system that is bound to keep you in dark.

                          Rgds

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Skv anand what is your source?

                            ------------------
                            CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
                            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              CM, I earlier promised you that you repeat anything thrice and I would give up.
                              You better prove that your system does not lie in all internal and external affairs

                              Comment

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