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    Which is most corrupt in Pakistan?

    Well!

    My question is that which party is most corrupt in Pakistan?

    The parties are:
    1. Pakistan Army lead by Generals
    2. Pakistan Judiciary lead by Chief Justices
    3. Pakistan Bureaucracy lead by Secretaries
    4. PML lead by exiled Nawaz Sharif
    5. PPP lead by so-called exiled Benazir
    6. Some other parties like Jamat-i-Islama, JUI, other groups of PML,
    7. Police, Custom, CBR
    8. Some of the scientists, Engineers, Doctors, and other professionals.
    9. Rest of all.

    In my opinion they are corrupt in the order presented above.

    What you think?

    #2
    Everybody in power.

    ------------------
    CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
    You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

    Comment


      #3
      i agree with CM's "powerful" statement...

      Comment


        #4
        This is too childish, anyone can shoot whatever they feel like, try to back your comments with facts and proofs. Generalization and ghaibat in Ramadan, hmmm… CM you’re smarter then this Sir jee.

        Comment


          #5
          Just study this one:


          Corruption in Pakistan


          LAHORE: Politicians the most corrupt, say students in survey

          By Our Staff Reporter

          LAHORE, June 8: Students of various city colleges have told a survey that they found politicians to be the most corrupt people and farmers the least.

          The survey, conducted by students of the Imperial College, interestingly also revealed that businesswomen were considered less corrupt than businessmen.

          Students at the Kinnaird College, Forman Christian College, Lahore College for Women and Imperial College were interviewed and asked who they thought to be the most corrupt and the least.

          The total sample size was 243 students and was conducted randomly, a researcher said. Eighteen categories are mentioned in the survey and each is ranked on a scale of 1-7. A seven indicates the most corrupt and a one not corrupt at all.

          Politicians got a ranking of 6.78, while farmers were ranked the least corrupt with a score of 2.02. Police came in a close second, from the bottom that is, with a score of 6.72. Interesting street beggars also made it to the survey ranking towards the corrupt end with a score of 4.83. The college students also found maulvis to be reasonably corrupt giving them a score of 5.13 (or the fifth most corrupt category out of the eighteen). They were followed closely by judges with a rank of 5.10. Teachers were the second least corrupt while journalists were right in the middle of the survey with a score of 4.14 and a rank of nine.

          The survey also said a "strong link" seemed to exist between the "degree of power and control exercised by each category" of profession. One interesting aspect also was that businesswomen were seen to be much less corrupt than businessmen making the survey comment: "So corruption does not appear to be gender neutral." The survey also notes that Pakistan currently ranks eleventh, along with Kyrgyztan and Uganda, in Berlin-based Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index.

          The complete list is as follows:

          1. Farmers 2.02 (least corrupt); 2. Teacher/professors 2.87; 3. Low-skilled workers 3.13; 4. Armed forces personnel 3.29; 5. Businesswomen 3.37; 6. Doctors 3.56; 7. Chartered accountants 3.89; 8. Bankers 4.06; 9. Journalists 4.14; 10. Professionals 4.30; 11. Businessmen 4.82; 12. Street beggars 4.83; 13. Judges 5.10; 14. Maulvis 5.13; 15. Lawyers 5.36; 16. Bureaucrats 6.31; 17. Police personnel 6.72; 18. Politician 6.78 (most corrupt).



          ------------------
          Sarfraz Khan

          Comment


            #6
            Sabah baji, we must humor the ill-informed.

            ------------------
            CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
            You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sabah:
              This is too childish, anyone can shoot whatever they feel like, try to back your comments with facts and proofs. Generalization and ghaibat in Ramadan, hmmm… CM you’re smarter then this Sir jee.
              I beleive your argument is more than childish.

              You think that you are patriot?

              Dear if you close your eyes and think that Army and Judges are pious then it is not your fault. World even patriot Pakistanies has a differnt overview.

              What sort of proof you are asking for?

              Head NIU Mr. Kamran Khan exposed ARMY, didn't you dare then? Army Generals made millions in defense deals. Just read about Bahrai Town.

              Remember the educational qualification of these pious Generals is not above Matric level or max. of Intermediate.

              Look at their living standard. How one grade 19, 20 officers can afford such standard?

              Just walk thru ay defense colony.

              Judges are another so called pious category. Just check what Jamat-i-Islami filed a case against corruption of your favorite Chief Justice of Pakistan. And look carefully into their rulings throughout last 10 years or so.

              I beleive that at least 90% of Armed professionals and Judges are the most coorupt category in Pakistan. Yes there might be about 10% to whom we should really salute.

              Look what Benazir did for party workers and Nawaz Sharif did the same for his party worker, gave jobs at the posts where their workers were not supposed to be even eligible for that.

              Present Army regime is doing same, deputing matric or inter pass Army Brig., Gen, or equivalents to such high posts everywhere.

              So dont consider yourself as protector for Pakistan. you should be aware of Islamic teaching at least in the holy month of Ramzan.

              WassalamoAlaikum!

              Comment


                #8
                Head NIU Mr. Kamran Khan exposed ARMY, didn't you dare then? Army Generals made millions in defense deals. Just read about Bahrai Town.

                Stories like this circulate in the media everyday.....and are usually floated by foreign media. Sure you can choose to believe them. Noones stopping you.

                Remember the educational qualification of these pious Generals is not above Matric level or max. of Intermediate.
                Are u talking about the Indian army? Because the minimum requirement for an officer in the Pak army is a bachelors degree.

                Look at their living standard. How one grade 19, 20 officers can afford such standard?
                And u automatically assume that its all ill-gotten wealth. Army officers usually have enough amenities which allow them to save up their salaries without having to spend much in terms of daily expenses. And from what they do for us, putting their lives on the line for us, this is the least we can afford them.

                Just walk thru ay defense colony.
                Defence colonies are mostly occupied by civilians, who wish to live in decent neighborhoods. And the reason why army officers are able to buy houses there is because they have subsidized housing available to them, for which most of them have been paying all thru the 20-30 yrs of their service.

                Judges are another so called pious category. Just check what Jamat-i-Islami filed a case against corruption of your favorite Chief Justice of Pakistan.
                and we are supposed to give credence to the Jamaat-e-islami, after they managed to squeeze power by using islam as a weapon? shame on them.

                I beleive that at least 90% of Armed professionals and Judges are the most coorupt category in Pakistan. Yes there might be about 10% to whom we should really salute.
                You have it the other way around..to say the least. I wont deny that there is corruption. Corruption is everywhere to a certain extent. But everyone knows...in Pakistan, the armed forces are the least corrupt department, which is why they were widely welcomed when they took over from the Sharif clan.

                Look what Benazir did for party workers and Nawaz Sharif did the same for his party worker, gave jobs at the posts where their workers were not supposed to be even eligible for that.
                that i agree with 100%

                Present Army regime is doing same, deputing matric or inter pass Army Brig., Gen, or equivalents to such high posts everywhere.
                The army is overseeing all civilian offices, and hence, yes, high ranking officials are being appointed as overseers, not as permanent placements. And again....get some info about the army pls. The minimum education of an army officer is a Bachelors degree.

                dont consider yourself as protector for Pakistan. you should be aware of Islamic teaching at least in the holy month of Ramzan.
                we should be aware of Islamic teachings all the time....not just during ramzan. And we are not angels...we have to take it one step at a time. Getting rid of the scum is the first step. Sharif is gone....Bhutto is gone. Altaf is gone. Now pray that they stay away..and hope for a better future for Pakistan.


                [This message has been edited by Eastern Analog (edited December 12, 2000).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Stories like this circulate in the media everyday.....and are usually floated by foreign media. Sure you can choose to believe them. Noones stopping you.


                  So you beleive that Mr. Kamran Khan is a foreigner, who stood with his words?

                  Are u talking about the Indian army? Because the minimum requirement for an officer in the Pak army is a bachelors degree.


                  ok! lets take it as max of Bachelor degree holder.

                  And u automatically assume that its all ill-gotten wealth. Army officers usually have enough amenities which allow them to save up their salaries without having to spend much in terms of daily expenses. And from what they do for us, putting their lives on the line for us, this is the least we can afford them.


                  Amenities?
                  which General or even Brig. has put the life on the line for us?

                  Yes soldiers and Captaind die for the country, and I salute them.

                  Above all what Generals did?
                  lost E. Pakistan after playing horrible role there.
                  50 years or so, Kashmiries are still slaves.

                  Oh Yes their basic goal to rule by hook or crook the country is fulfilled.

                  Defence colonies are mostly occupied by civilians, who wish to live in decent neighborhoods. And the reason why army officers are able to buy houses there is because they have subsidized housing available to them, for which most of them have been paying all thru the 20-30 yrs of their service.

                  No doubt there live some civilinas too in defense col.

                  Ok. paying 20-30 years. now just tell me can an officer of grade 17, retired in grade 19 or 20 earned honestly, built house worth rupees 50 lack or so? Never!

                  and we are supposed to give credence to the Jamaat-e-islami, after they managed to squeeze power by using islam as a weapon? shame on them.


                  You are right as far as Jamat is concerned. But does that make sense to deny the truth?

                  You have it the other way around..to say the least. I wont deny that there is corruption. Corruption is everywhere to a certain extent. But everyone knows...in Pakistan, the armed forces are the least corrupt department, which is why they were widely welcomed when they took over from the Sharif clan.


                  Dear Armed forces consume 60% of Pakistan's budget and the ratio of corruption is same.
                  You probably dont have idea of empires built by Zia-ul-Haq, Aslam Baig, AM Waqar Azim, Mansoor-ul-Haq and many many many others.


                  The army is overseeing all civilian offices, and hence, yes, high ranking officials are being appointed as overseers, not as permanent placements.


                  overseeing all civilian officers and not the line?

                  Remember country was made by civilians not these line guards. Not with their guns but with civilian's movement.

                  Civilians should be placed for overseeing all armyed forces.

                  we should be aware of Islamic teachings all the time....not just during ramzan. And we are not angels...we have to take it one step at a time. Getting rid of the scum is the first step. Sharif is gone....Bhutto is gone. Altaf is gone. Now pray that they stay away..and hope for a better future for Pakistan.


                  Yes we should be aware of teaching of Islam all the time.
                  all gone, but now we must get rid of Army's role in Governing country.

                  No doubt Atmy was offered no agitation while it removed Nawaz Sharif. But one wrong act cannot correct the other wrong act.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My point regarding the journalist was that such stories are always floated by the foreign media, and then elements from among our journalists pick up these stories and expand on them, even though they are hogwash.

                    Why are u intent on proving officers as illiterate? Fact is, even the recruits are enrolled in educational programs, and are mandated to finish their intermediate as a prereq for their promotion. And no, its not a max of bachelor degree.....there are more masters degree holders in the Pak army than u would choose to believe....and not just in the education corps.

                    The folks who stand as Brigadiers and Generals at this time, were Lieutenants and Captains during the '65 and '71 wars, and rather than acknowledge their contribution to the country, and rather than thank them for putting their lives on the line, u are resorting to defaming them, which is a shame. Do you believe that the country was better under Nawaz Sharifs rule? And that the army took over merely to establish its authority? Do u deny the fact that Pakistan is in a better shape today than it was over a year ago? Do you deny the fact that Musharraf has a bigger mandate amongst the public than the world media would have us believe?

                    Understand this....Defence colonies are primarily made for army officers, and that housing is sold to them under subsidized rates. So a plot or house that carries a market value of 5 mill rupees costs them less than half of that. Thats their land...thats their construction, and thats their right. That is why civilians have to pay so much more to afford the ability to live amongst army personnel or veterans.

                    I perhaps have a better idea of everything than u regarding the army. The defence budget is high because our defence requirements are stringent. And the army has always lived up to those requirements, which is why we live in a free country today. Perhaps u should take a trip to the neelam valley in kashmir, or the siachen glacier high atop the himalayas and see what these soldiers are going through for us. Its so easy to sit here and criticize.

                    The army, just for clarification purposes, is overseeing the civilians, AND the borders. They are fully aware of their responsibilities. But when the civil setup starts to go to the dogs to the point where it compromises the security of the country, then some drastic measures have to be taken. The civilian governments in Pakistan have not proven themselves worthy enough and capable of overseeing our army. So till we find such a civil setup, army is our best option.

                    If we go by your analogy and get rid of the army, who do we replace them with? The same corrupt lot that plundered the country for the past 13 years? Im glad the majority of Pakistanis dont agree with you on this one.

                    In an ideal world, yes, Id love to have the army sitting in the barracks or on the borders, and a freely chosen government sitting at the helm. But how many times have we tried that already? Twice with Nawaz Sharif...twice with Benazir. Enough is enough. The best option is to give a third party a chance...but that is in the hands of the public. Not the army. The public is the one that has to vote.....and from what we have seen in the past, pakistani voters dont have a very good eye for who they want in power. They always fall for the wrong people. This 3 year time off is a well needed break for the Pakistani people, and will help them make up their mind and decide on a better candidate in the next elections, which, I have no doubt, will be held in 2002.


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Damn Eastern Analog has taken to this board like a lion smelling blood.
                      Welcome to the politics section, where everyday is world war 3.
                      Sometimes it goes nuclear - but that is only when Rani is around.
                      I guess now me and Mailik can relax!!

                      And the topic, you guys have seemed to cover every thing.
                      But Justice, you seem to have brought this up, when i joined this forum, even then you were against the military.
                      As for corruption.
                      The India govt is as corrupt.
                      So are about 95% of all Third world nations.
                      In Pakistan it is just more blatant.
                      WHile in India, alot of money is lost, but they make a lot of money at the same time, so it is not obvious.
                      The other fact is that our press is ruthless when it comes to corruption.
                      They publish anything that seems a scandal even though it is not true.
                      The least corrupt institution in Pakistan is the army.
                      It is very simple.
                      The most are the political parties.
                      Your Khan must have been paid by some party most likely the PPP to say the stuff he did.
                      Learn what is common in all politics - learn to read between the lines and not believe everything you read.
                      Like Eastern Analog said, i rather have the army than those corrupt politicians.

                      ------------------
                      CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
                      You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Any one with any sense knows that the Pakistan Armed Forces are the best organised and most prepared institution in the country.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          make this simple, everyone is, $$$$$ does wonders to their integrity.

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                            #14
                            I want to make it clear that I am not against any party including military but I am vey much against corruption.

                            My point is that US is undergoing a stress political fight, should US Army intevene?

                            India, a multiculture and mutinational country having elections every third year, too much blames for politicians, did ever indian army intervened?

                            This is Pakistan, where of course our rulers remained corrupt after the death of Quaid-e-Azam. Interestingly Army ruled country for more than 25 years, thats why share more corruption.

                            Even when Nawaz or Benazir were in power, Army was never out of politics. Remeber Islamai Jamhoori Ittehad and etc. Therefore Army never let any genuine political force with the power of GUNs. Might is Right.

                            The other thing is that a child normally remains sin free or less informative. As he grows, he becomes Nawaz or Zia or Musharraf or Bhutto or any of us.

                            Same is the case with Army's Captains and junior rank officers. As they progress towards higher rank they become more polutted.

                            Well as I told earlier that there are definitely at least 10% professionals / workers everywhere in every dept., those are really honest and of course in Army as well.

                            Interestingly the members here admitted the corruption of Army as well although limited one.

                            Dear, every country has Army, but Army is not supposed to throw the governments on charge of corruption and then afterward bow down. Of course rulers are also supposed to behave like human being which they dont do normally including Army rulers.

                            Corruption is everywhere, even some US senators, UK assembly members and Ex-Japan's PM remained involve in corruption.

                            We should try to eliminate corruption but not by inviting Army from line to rule. And Army should open (at least to some reputed judges) its accounts for accountability.

                            Accountability for Generals, Commanders, Armed forces professionals, Judges, Politicians, burectares, Scientists, Engineers, Doctors and all of us must be carried at the same standard (fair and free)without delay.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I can live with fake propaganda.....coz i see those every day. But i cannot tolerate misinformation......where u would try to convince people of something thats not true.
                              Ok..lets take it piece by piece.
                              Difference between Pakistan and other countries.....what do u think it is? I see a couple of primary differences. 1, lower literacy rate, and 2, overppulation. Not to blame anyone for it, but this was a snowball effect that we inherited after partition, thanks to India usurping 80% of the resources that were due to Pakistan at the time. All the moneys and resources that were stipulated for Pakistan at the time of partition were not given to Pakistan. The only thing Pakistan did get was poulation.
                              Now u try to feed a family of 10 kids on a 1000 rupee salary. Not funny eh? Well thats what Pakistan went through for the longest time, and thats what prompted people in Pakistan to join politics for the sole purpose of cleaning up the countrys accounts, merely so they could stuff their own. And when this exercise took magnanimous proportions, there was no choice but to let the Army take over.
                              Despite limited resources, perennial sanctions, heavy debt, sky high corruption, and an extremely low literacy rate, Pakistan is still right there on the map of the world. And if u think we would have been at the same level, had we allowed civilian govts to carry on all thru these 53 yrs, u are mistaken. Had that been the case, Pakistan would have been split into 53 pieces already. There is a reason Pakistan is free today....its because of our Armed Forces. no thanks to the civilian govts, who have done nothing but plunder the country.

                              I dont know what u expect to gain out of allowing a civil govt to finish their tenure. So let me think. Would we be better off if Nawaz Sharif had finished his tenure as a PM? Well....some people would say he got rid of a lot of pollution. Others translate it a 'he cleaned the country'. I agree with the latter version of it.

                              We have to wake up and smell the coffee. Nawaz and BB had proven themselves terribly unfit leaders. And they were rightfully removed. And that is reflected by the publics approval of their removals. Regarding Sharifs shipping off to Saudi arabia, thats one thing that noone here agrees with. But most agree that this was a mandated decision, forced upon the Pakistan economy. And not much of it was in Musharrafs hands. He could either let Sharif go in exile, or he could risk cutting off of Saudi Arabias aid to Pakistan as a result...or simply just getting in their bad books. Something we cant afford at this time. So as bad a move as it was, we have to learn to live with it...and be glad that at least what happened was only a twisted extension to what the public already wanted....to get rid of SHarif. At least the SAudis didnt blackmail Musharraf into releasing Sharif and restoring his assemblies.

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