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Fruits of an islamic system??

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    Fruits of an islamic system??

    Well guys this is going to be a topic that might surprise people but I was wondering that with pakistan being an islamic country and all that what prevents us from having isalmic laws that are easy to implement??
    I mean some particular areas maybe difficult but what about the islamic punishments for major crimes?i.e.Zina,theft,murder etc.A punishment is only meted out after guilt has been established and we could use all the modern procedures to establish guilt of an accused person but when the time comes for punishment it should given according to islamic rules.This can be done using the modern legal system and courts in effect right now and without the need to establish seperate or parallel courts.
    At this point I would like to raise another point,having used whatever procedures we might to establish the guilt of an accused person aren't we bound as muslims to give the punishment that Allah has set out in the Quran or the prophet(pbuh) in his sunnah??
    Now for the final point and the main reason which has inspired me to post this topic right now
    Yes it is all the 'Ehtisab' noise going out in pakistan right now? Do you guys think that nawaz sharif,benazir,zardari,and the other top corrupt people should all lose one hand each?I mean they are all muslims,aren't they?and isn't cutting of hand the punishment for stealing in islam?
    Personally I think this kind of treatment would instantly result in a dramatic reduction of corruption in our society.At least the top levels.Politicians can take jail terms,even come out as heroes because of it,but none of them would dare losing a hand or two.This would work wonders especially with future politicians and beaurocrats.I think if government officials knew that they could lose a hand if they are caught they would think ten times before indulging in any financial impropreity.
    This finally brings me back to the original question.Are we bound by islam to cut hands of people known to be theives.e.g.benazir,zardari,sharifs etc.

    #2
    Do you want all Pakistanis to only have one hand?

    Every Pakistani has stolen at sometime in their lives. If people were that honest, there wont be a need to lock doors.

    The Shariah Law that you are talking about does not distinguish between someone who steals Millions (e.g., Benazir, Sharrif, etc.) or someone who may shoplift an orange. Unless you want a two-tier system to address the matter of Crime and Punishment, you will be chopping thousands of hands a day.

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      #3
      The state (Khalifa state and not illigal Pakistani regime) is obligated under Islamic Law to follow Islamic punishments, but you have to look at it from a point of view where State officials confirm to the defination of Momin. Implementing Islamic punishments is an obligation upon us, but if we prioritize our obligations a priority (higher degree) before meting out Islamic punishments should be to establish a true Islamic State, which confirms to the tenents of Quran and Sunnah, and would have a right to mete out punishments that Allah (SWT) has priscribed for the criminals As of now how could a corrupt state official be allowed to cut hands of people, he would be cutting hands left and right, these tyrants would'nt leave any one who will oppose their tyranny, and thus half of Pakistan will be handless

      [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 06, 2000).]

      [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 06, 2000).]

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        #4
        Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
        Do you want all Pakistanis to only have one hand?
        Every Pakistani has stolen at sometime in their lives. If people were that honest, there wont be a need to lock doors.
        Don't think that's true but if it is then lets' all have one hand.Shall we?Don't you think that will at least reduce the trend just out of reduced-capability? You do know that the 2nd hand is chopped off on repeatition of offence don't you?So this will eventually put a complete end to the trend won't it?
        Ah..I told you it would be effective didn't I?
        The Shariah Law that you are talking about does not distinguish between someone who steals Millions (e.g., Benazir, Sharrif, etc.) or someone who may shoplift an orange. Unless you want a two-tier system to address the matter of Crime and Punishment, you will be chopping thousands of hands a day.
        Since this is the serious point of your post,this is the one I am going to make a serious reply to.The Shariah law Does distinguish between the level of guilt.You may not be aware of it but scholars have done work on this issue.But in any case if you had read my post carefully you would know that I am only suggesting this to be applied in top cases.You missed that part didn't you?It's there exactly to avoid cutting off thousands of hands.Let's just have hundreds.All right?



        [This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited November 06, 2000).]

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          #5
          Originally posted by Musalman:
          The state (Khalifa state and not illigal Pakistani regime) is obligated under Islamic Law to follow Islamic punishments,
          What exactly do you mean by that?That a government which is not the khilafah need not or is not obliged to follow islam??
          establish a true Islamic State, which confirms to the tenents of Quran and Sunnah, and would have a right to mete out punishments that Allah (SWT) has priscribed for the criminals
          Never heard of a naive statement like that.If a 'true' islamic society was there,there wouldn't be any thefts.And how do you acheive that anyway without taking some sort of action?First step is to show that the sort of loot that our elite have indulged in is not acceptable.
          As of now how could a corrupt state official be allowed to cut hands of people, he would be cutting hands left and right, these tyrants would'nt leave any one who will oppose their tyranny, and thus half of Pakistan will be handless

          Why do you say that?I never said government officals will be the ones making the decisions.Did I?

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            #6
            Brothers,the only way forward for pakistan is to implment Allah's law completely and comprehensively instead of imitating western kuffar laws and systems.

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              #7
              I've stated numerous times before, and I state again::::

              ISLAMIC LAWS SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED BECAUSE PAKISTAN WAS BORN (FROM INDIA) TO BE AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY..THIS WAS THE REASON..TO HAVE A COUNTRY WITH ISLAM AS ITS OFFICIAL RELIGION! THEREFORE, I THINK ALL ISLAMIC LAWAS SHOULD BE ENFORCED..AND WE ALL KNOW THE LAWS FROM THE QURAN/SUNNAH ARE THERE FOR THE BENEFIT OF TEH MUSLIM MASSES...

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                #8
                X_Com. you are right.we should implement Allahs law because we are commanded to do so.living according o any other system is haram.We have come from Allah,we are here for Allah and we will return to Allah.

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                  #9
                  We should do this, we should do that...we should we should we should !!!
                  Just when are we "going" to do it?

                  ------------------
                  Who says nothing is impossible? I've been doing nothing all my life!

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                    #10
                    hum sa, you ought to think about the purpose of your life.

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                      #11
                      Swati I do that quite often, thankyou.
                      I meant when are we going to implement the Shariah Laws officially?

                      ------------------
                      Who says nothing is impossible? I've been doing nothing all my life!

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                        #12
                        Hum sa,what prevents us from implementing the sharia? I would say its two things:
                        1.lack of awareness amongst the ummah i.e that it is an obligation for the muslims to live accordng to Allah's and none other.
                        2.The rulers in muslim world.They are there to serve the inerests of the western disbelieving nations and their own families and friends.

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