Indian Muslims and Pakistani Muslims

[AbdulHameed Khan]

In the context of discussion on the Indian Muslims and Pakistani Muslims, I would
like to point out a few facts.
Before partition, places like Aligarh, Ajmer, Lucknow and Hydrabad Deccan were the strong holds of Muslim culture for the rest of the then Indian Muslims. After partition there has been a change in the tide. The Muslims in Pakistan ( I mean the general masses ) have gradually moved towards Islam irrespective of various political leaders coming in power. It is a fact here that during prayers the mosques are full and particularly on Fridays, the congregation spills over on the roads. The most significant factor is that the younger generation is more Islam pasand and are studying the Qoran analytically. The Islamic values are being encouraged by the youth. This does not mean that Pakistan is clean inside out. We do have the rotten eggs, but their say in society is being diminished. The frustrated media (foreign) and their lackeys would like to ridicule them by calling them "Fundamentalists" a term coined by the West, but the fact remains that the Pakistani youth of to-day is far more educated on religion than their forefathers. On the other hand the Muslim youth in India seem to follow the local "tide". Indian youth is so impressed by Western society that every Indian who can speak a bit of English would like the world to beleive that he or she is "foren". Indian society encourages drinking (taken as a mark of high society), encourages lewd dress code and behaviour. Dating is common and living to-grether is taken as a mark of being modern. The Muslim youth pitched against these odds either have to join them or be ostracized. In the "Kaon Banega Karore Pathi" show a Muslim youngster was asked what was the name given to the event of Muslim migration from Mecca to Medina. Four names were shown on the screen, but he was not able to reply, instead he chose the 50-50 option. Similar other basic questions on Islam were not answered correctly. These may not sound important, but ask any 10 year old in Pakistan, he or she will come out with the correct reply. Demolition of Babri Masjid or any other Muslim place of worship is not as serious as the demolition of Islamic Ideals. This is a serious food for thought!

[rvikz]

where did you see drinking encouraged
pakistan resrtrics drinking and people started using drugs.

[chilli]

Abdul said :
Indian society encourages drinking (taken as a mark of high society), encourages lewd dress code and behaviour. Dating is common and living together is taken as a mark of being modern.
--------------------------------------------

I am so ashamed, I did not know about all this though I am an Indian.

I sincerely believe that keeping women indoors, compulsory growing of beard and achieving instant divorce with three words "should be the marks of being modern".
Thank you Abdul for showing us the light !!

[kabir]

this is a pure myth about indian muslims infact indian muslims are practising islam with devotion under very trying situations .
without any one help so i guess infact the indian muslims are following thier religion with more sincerity
as far as drinking is concerned no muslim in india will be respected in his community if he is found to be drinking it is a social stigma among the muslim community.
so brother get the ground realities first.

[AbdulHameed Khan]

Originally posted by chilli:
Abdul said :
Indian society encourages drinking (taken as a mark of high society), encourages lewd dress code and behaviour. Dating is common and living together is taken as a mark of being modern.

I am so ashamed, I did not know about all this though I am an Indian.

I sincerely believe that keeping women indoors, compulsory growing of
beard and achieving instant divorce with three words "should be the marks
of being modern".
Thank you Abdul for showing us the light !!

Mr. Chilli,
You confirm my contention that you have very little idea about Islam.

Please read the poem/comments posted by THE WATCHER 02 November. This should clear your first misconception. The answer to your 2nd misconception is that you don't become a Muslim by merely growing a beard. Most of the men irrespective of their religion kept a beard in the medieval era and many do so even now. In fact Abu-Jahl also had a beard. As regards your third misconception, divorce doesn't happen so casually in Islam as you tend to believe. In fact Islam is the only religion which lays down very stringent rules for divorce to protect the woman.
Here are the rules of divorce given in the Quran.
002.226
YUSUFALI: For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a
waiting for four months is ordained; if then they return, Allah is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


002.228
YUSUFALI: Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly
periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their
wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands
have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for
reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against
them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage)
over them. And Allah is exalted in Power, Wise.


002.229
YUSUFALI: A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties
should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness.
It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your
wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the
limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be
unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is not blame on either of
them if she gives something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained
by Allah; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits
ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others).


002.230
YUSUFALI: So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after
that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has
divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they
re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by
Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those
who understand.

002.231
YUSUFALI: When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their
('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on
equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take
undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat
Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and
the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your
instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with
all things.

002.232
YUSUFALI: When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their
('Iddat), do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands, if
they mutually agree on equitable terms. This instruction is for all amongst
you, who believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is (the course Making for)
most virtue and purity amongst you and Allah knows, and ye know not.

The numbers denote Suras and Ayat. Translated by YUSUF ALI.

[AbdulHameed Khan]

Originally posted by kabir:
this is a pure myth about indian muslims infact indian muslims are practising islam with devotion under very trying situations .
without any one help so i guess infact the indian muslims are following thier religion with more sincerity
as far as drinking is concerned no muslim in india will be respected in his community if he is found to be drinking it is a social stigma among the muslim community.
so brother get the ground realities first.

Sir,
It is heartening to read your piece of information. Yes, I do agree that Indian Muslims are practising Islam under very trying situations. But some of the things which I have heard and seen from the Indian sources forced me to form my opinion.

Some of the things said by Mahesh Bhatt (his mother is a Muslim according to him) and Shahrukh Khan and many others creates doubts. True! they don't represent the majority but no one took exception to the outrageous things they said.
Then there was a program aired on Indian TV showing how the troops in the mountainous areas prayed. The commentator said that there is a mix of soldiers from all religions and theypray to-gether in one shed. Fine, but the way the Muslims offered their prayers is not how a Muslim is supposed to offer prayers. The commentator further went on to say that the officers have no religion.

During the Kargil fighting the Indian troops (Muslims) were shown offering the Namaz-e-Janaza for the Pakistani soldiers. It was shown that they performed 'Sajda' in front of the dead body. Now, you know that there is no 'Sajda' in Namaz-e-Janaza.

Then the Indian troops killed were called 'Shaheeds'. Irrespective of our political differences, one (Muslim) should know that Shahadat is bestowed on one who is killed fighting in the Way of Allah. Surely the Indian troops were not fighting in 'The Way of Allah'.

The Indian TV and films depict the Muslims praying in front of Mazars. Yes uneducated Muslims in Pakistan do so as well. But their number has diminised. But the Indian media projects this form of prayer in India where followers of other religions also attend. This is a form of 'Shirk' vehemently opposed in Islam.

None-the-less I am happy to know that Muslims in India are holding their own against a philosophy diametrically opposite their own.

[NYAhmadiX]

Are you guys arguing that Muslims all over the world should be out of one mold? This is the most preposterous idea. By same account, Muslims in America are not same as Muslims in Pakistan, who are different than Muslims in Saudi Arabia, where they hate Iranian Muslims who have no respect for Wahabis who hate Sunnis.

Islam is not a Made-of-Cement belief system, and there ought to be differences in Muslims of differing places. There is something called the environment. All of this “my way is the only way” is the absurd notion originated by Mullahs. They should shove their anomalous accost down their pants, and let Muslims be Muslims, whether Indians or Pakistanis or Chinese.

[AbdulHameed Khan]

Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
Are you guys arguing that Muslims all over the world should be out of one mold? This is the most preposterous idea. By same account, Muslims in America are not same as Muslims in Pakistan, who are different than Muslims in Saudi Arabia, where they hate Iranian Muslims who have no respect for Wahabis who hate Sunnis.
I'm afraid you have not read the discussion properly. Please read it before you make hasty summaries.
Islam is not a Made-of-Cement belief system, and there ought to be differences in Muslims of differing places. There is something called the environment. All of this “my way is the only way” is the absurd notion originated by Mullahs. They should shove their anomalous accost down their pants, and let Muslims be Muslims, whether Indians or Pakistanis or Chinese.

[CM]

Chilli, ignorance is something you don't flaunt.
Three times, yes, but once a month.
GET THE FACTS RIGHT!!!
So in other words divorce in three months and not instant.
I swear your knowledge of Islami is far to small compared to all the **** you say about it.

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CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[CM]

Also NYA is right, though i hate to admit it.
So you wanted to get one my case yesterday??
To bad i wass getting bored to death in my class.
Maybe today??

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CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[AbdulHameed Khan]

Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
Are you guys arguing that Muslims all over the world should be out of one mold? This is the most preposterous idea. By same account, Muslims in America are not same as Muslims in Pakistan, who are different than Muslims in Saudi Arabia, where they hate Iranian Muslims who have no respect for Wahabis who hate Sunnis.

Islam is not a Made-of-Cement belief system, and there ought to be differences in Muslims of differing places. There is something called the environment. All of this “my way is the only way” is the absurd notion originated by Mullahs. They should shove their anomalous accost down their pants, and let Muslims be Muslims, whether Indians or Pakistanis or Chinese.

NYA. Please read the posts carefully. Your argument is that the Muslims from various regions will differ. Yes! but they have to follow the BASICS of Islam. They can't neglect these and still call themselves Muslims. They can follow their own culture as long as long as it does not conflict with the Fundamentals of Islam.