kashmiris and biharis pak double standards

[kabir]

this is to all muslims of the subcontinent, pakistanis are the main supporters of the kashmiri freedom movement and kashmiris deserve thier freedom but to me pakistani solidarity towards kashmiris appears to be selfish and hollow as long as its own citizens the bihairis are languishing in refugee camps in dhaka .biharis who also happen to be muslims are pakistani citizens
when pakistan supports taliban in afghanistan ,chechnya ,palestine and of course kashmiris .i think all its efforts are hollow as long as it does not take the biharis back.i wonder if pakistan would have fought for kashmir if thier land was not fertile and people not fair? if thats not the case then pakistan must take back its own people the biharis first.

[CM]

no double standards from most of us here.
Biharis should be brought back and .5 million BD people sent back, but the BD govt won't accept that.
And our govt won't bring the people back.

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[Malik73]

There are 2.5 million Bangladeshis's in Sindh and they should be exchanged for the 300,000 Bihari's - simple as that!

No hypocrisy on the part of the Pakistani people!

[CM]

2.5 million BD people in pakistan???
Lets screw the BD govt, lets deport these guys and bring the 200,000 biharis back.
That would be smart and screw that ***** for a pres.
Esp. after the whole Report stuff.

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[ghalib]

I think Pakistanis have been traditionally prejudiced against the Bengalis. Maybe it has to do with their color (darker than ours), the language, or the social conditions I am not sure but it surely appears so from the way we refer to them in our lingo and what we think of them (i.e. bhookey bengali). You can even get a glimpse of it from the postings in this thread. Kinda reminds of the Saudis and how they treat muslims, especially from the subcontinent, as if they're superior.

I've worked with a few bangalis, especially the oes who were around when Dhaka fell, and sometimes I can see where their reciprocal hatred for Pakistanis stems from.

And yes, Pakistan does have double standards (then again, which nation doesn;t?) when it comes to Biharis possibly due to the prejudice we hide inside.

[Malik73]

Ghalib what you may say MAYBE true for a very SMALL minority of people but not the majority.

This discussion is about the 2.5 million ILLEGAL Bangladeshi immigrants in Pakistan that live in Pakistan, NOT a racial argument.

If you turn into a racial argument then we can bring in the horrible discrimination that the 300,000 Bihari's suffer at the hands of the Bangladeshi's or the up to 15 million Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India who suffer widspread discrimination in India.

This is a simple matter - deport the ILLLEGAL Bangladeshis' from Sindh and bring home the 300,000 Bihari's from BD.



[This message has been edited by Malik73 (edited November 02, 2000).]

[CM]

Well said Mailik.
This mutual admiration is getting way out of hand.
Lets fight for a while.

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[Malik73]

CM said -

" This mutual admiration is getting way out of hand. Lets fight for a while."

I agree - we got an award for this as well! God these Indians are a jealous lot!

If you want to fight then e-mail me some suggestions on what things we should fight over? - lets keep the fighting civil huh!

[ghalib]

>>>This discussion is about the 2.5 million ILLEGAL Bangladeshi immigrants in Pakistan that live in Pakistan, NOT a racial argument.

Actualy dude, its about the beharis. Read the title.


>>>Biharis should be brought back and .5 million BD people sent back, but the BD govt won't accept that.
And our govt won't bring the people back.


>>>>There are 2.5 million Bangladeshis's in Sindh and they should be exchanged for the 300,000 Bihari's - simple as that!


If BD won't accept its people back, does it make it allright for us to abandon our citizens? Fine, BD doesn;t want its people back, screw that. Lets talk about our citizens. The citizens of Pakistan who're stranded in a now foreign land. Why have we chosen to abandon them. Lets everyone pool together and bring them back and help them settle. Nothing has been done of this sort for the past 30 yrs. It was done indiscriminantly for afghanis, who BTW are not Pakistanis, but it can;t be done for beharis? C'mon!! This is not double standard?

>>>Ghalib what you may say MAYBE true for a very SMALL minority of people but not the majority.

Malik, what I say is from what I have been experiencing/wintenessing since I was a kid. And no, not just from within my family, but people I have befriended and people I have had worked with. A good number, and I do mean GOOD NUMBER, of Pakistanis I have come across despise Bengalis for who they are and what they choose to do in '71. As a Pakistani, I do feel ashamed of how a large population feels about bengalis and how succeesive gov't have used the plight of biharis to muster support for thier own gains. Its pathetic not to mention hypocritical.

You say its not a racial issue and I say thats the problem that Pakistan can;t seems to come to terms with. Even in this thread I read posts which strongly border on hatred for bangalis and we don't seem to realize it. Truth is a hard pill to swallow. Our unrestrained prejudicm towards Bengalis, among other factors, is what led to the debacle of 1971 and its that same hatred which is flowing for other ethnicities in the present day pakistan. There are pakis that openly admit that the war crimes committed by Pakistan but the numbers are very few. Alotta things went wrong during that period, including the atrocities of Mukhti Bahni, but what Pakistan did, are doing and what they lost cannot be denied or contested.

[Musalman]

Our feelings to that effect comes from a nationalistic point of view. Do not forget that muslims are one Ummah, so we should get rid of the evil of nationalism from ourselves, and think of us as only muslims belonging to one UMMAH. Nationalism is also a way of disuniting the UMMAH. As currently seen in the world, we are over FIFTY-FIVE MUSLIM COUNTRIES AND GROWING ! There should only be ONE Muslim country (Khilafah).
Allah CLEARLY orders us NOT to be divided and separated and yet we have REFUSED to do so and decided to live in over 55 countries. We are too busy being proud Palestinian, Jordanian, Yemeni, Turkish, Irani, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Pakistani, Algerian, Libyan, Egyptian, Moroccan, Lebanese, Bengali, etc. How many more nationalities are we going to see in the UMMAH ? How many more divisions? How many more separations ? The Kuffar are killing us one by one, as seen in the "New World Order" (Chechnya,Algeria,Bosnia,Kashmir, etc.). Divide-and-conquer is really working on the UMMAH. Lets all work together to put an end to this nonsense called Nationalism, a completely alien, and forbidden ideology in Islam.

Learning and appreciating ours and other Muslim cultures and backgrounds and languages is one thing, and being proud of being a certain nationality is another. Ummah is rich in culture, language, and backgrounds, Alhumdolillah. We don't need to be "rich" in being divided into many different nationalities and sects.

[Mr Xtreme]

There is a big difference between Bangladesh and Kashmir. For one thing, Kashmiris haven't joined forces with India, that single act of naked treachery is what divides Pakistanis and Bengalis, the physical differences are a minor issue that only become important if people want to focus on small, petty details.

Which isn't to say that prejudices don't exist, but then this is the real world. It's how you deal with it that counts. As far as the Kashmir issue is concerned, Pakistan puts it's neck on the line for Kashmir, unlike Bangladsesh. If Bangladesh would show the same solidarity to Kashmir that it did to India in 1971 then India's illegal occupation of the valley would be much more difficult.

[NYAhmadiX]

Ghalib makes a valid point. Every political discussion of Bangladesh in Pakistan starts with a reference to Mir Jaffer and Mir Sadiq. When it comes to Bangladesh, we have nothing to be proud of. Pakistani politicians, and the armed forces see separation of Bangladesh as an eyesore and are trying hard to score a “victory” over India, and are using Kashmir as an issue to even the score. They give as much hoot about Kashmiris as they do about Biharis.

Biharis caught in between are the victims of machoness and chauvinism at its worst.

[ghalib]

What BD did is no less treacherous than what Pakistan was doing to BD all along. Fine, lets agree on that. I agree for what I know. Lets move on to owning upto mistakes. The problem is that Pakistan can;t seem to own upto to the massive boo boo it made when dealing with bengalis during the late 60's and upto the time leading to seccession.

Pakistan can't seem to accept the fact that it diliberately discriminated against bengalis and went far out to discredit the elections where Rahman came out as the winner. Bhutto went on the record as to claim that who so ever collaborated with the democratically elected gov't of the Rehman, he'll break their legs. Is this how this situation should have been handled? I don't see any logic other than to feel too suprior to be ruled by "those bhookey bangalees." People bring issues of national language, siding with India and Six points etc., but the root of the problem was the dissatifaction of bengalees of their treatment by the West Pakistan and I most certainly don't blame them for it (the satisfaction, that is).


>>>Which isn't to say that prejudices don't exist, but then this is the real world. It's how you deal with it that counts.

Yes, its how one deals with it is what keeps a nation intact or tears it apart. Pakistan did not deal with it justly! Sadly, we point fingers at everything else but ourselves.

[Mr Xtreme]

What have we got to gain by raking up this stuff from 30 years ago? It might make some sense if there was no Bangladesh, and Bengalis were still suffering from dictaion from West Pakistan, but that isn't the case any more.

In hard currency, can you give me a good reason for Pakistan to apologise to Bangladesh? Will Bangladesh then expect compensation? Why should this generation of Pakistani suffer for the decisions of it's leader 30 years ago? Will Bangladesh apologise for it's part in India's agression in 1971?

[ghalib]

Extreme, I haven't talked about apologies yet. Frankly, I don't think it would do any good for the PR between the two nations. But realizing the mistakes is another matter all by itself. Whether or not BD accpets its mistakes is their problem and not ours but we're not BD, well atleast not anymore.


>>>>Why should this generation of Pakistani suffer for the decisions of it's leader 30 years ago?

I think it will serve in our national interest (domestically) to accept the mistakes we have made and use the events in the '71 as a casestudy to deal with the existing ethnic hatred in our country. If we don't learn from our past, we're doomed to repeat it and the existing and the future generations will continue to suffer.