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Are Pakistani Punjabi muslims incapable of interacting with other religions?

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    Are Pakistani Punjabi muslims incapable of interacting with other religions?

    http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep20...00/oped/o2.htm

    By Manzur Ijaz

    He says

    'The ease with which the Arab Muslims were interacting with their Jewish counterparts prompted me to ask an Arab activist why they can communicate with Jews so easily while Pakistani Muslims cannot. The response was very interesting: Since the Arabs have lived with the Jews for centuries, they know how to deal with each other. For Pakistanis, Jews are alien and unknown demons, he replied. Probably, this response provides a key to understanding the attitudes of Pakistanis towards other groups also.

    Other than a small percentage of lower class Christians, Pakistani Punjabis belong to one religion, Islam. In contrast to other provinces where there are still minorities like Hindus, Sikhs, Parsees, Boharas and others religious groups, the new generation of Punjabis have no experience with dealing with people from other religions. As a result, they can easily demonise people of other faiths. It precipitates a narrow mindedness among Punjabis when it comes to dealing with people of other religions.

    And since Punjabis constitute an overwhelming majority in Pakistan, religious belligerence expresses itself in the state ideology. In addition to nationalistic reasons, Punjabis' lack of experience of dealing with other people in their day-to-day life creates a collective phobia for followers of other religions. This explains why a majority of Pakistanis are still opposed to Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation while Israeli's primary victims, Palestinians and Arabs, are establishing and deepening relations with their long term enemy.

    Indian Muslims manifest a different behaviour pattern too. They may have severe grievances with Hindus but they conduct joint community activities on a regular basis. There are very few Indian organizations which do not have Muslim members along with people from other religions. Even Aligrah Association has Hindu members and office bearers.

    As a matter of fact, Indian Muslims seem to be closer to Hindus of UP in comparison to Sindhi or Punjabis. The gap between Hindus and Indian Muslims has widened with the rise of Hindutva in the form of the BJP but still there are several secular minded groups (like TOUCH) that promote harmony between Indians of different religions.

    On the contrary, most Muslim Punjabis make sure not to go to events where non-Muslim Indians are expected to come. A well-known Pakistani VIP has made it known that no Hindu is allowed to enter his residence. I have come across many Punjabi Muslims who do not attend cultural events because of Sikh participation. The case of Bollywood stars and Dilair Mehdi is an exception to the general trend.'

    #2
    Very good analysis and very true. It is interesting to note that 'Banta Singh' a short while ago posted in the religious section the reason for why he feels close to his Hindu friends than to his muslim friends...when he had path at Gurdwara all his hindu friends came to help him but muslim friends all three of them didn't even turn up for the ceremony.

    I have lived and interacted with people of all faiths in my opinion that is the only natural way to live.

    This proves that countries formed on basis of religion are a bad idea, they breed hatred of people of other religion and that hatred eventually turns on each other.

    [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 16, 2000).]

    Comment


      #3
      boy, I sure love generalizations...

      Comment


        #4
        Boy this is rich!!!
        These two won't discuss anything to do with the crimes and atrocities in India all over India that is.
        And come up with a generalised and unobjective article which has no basis in fact!!!!
        And rani mon chere, why don't you leave your racist and generalised comments about pakistan and its creation out of this and deal with the issue at hand.

        ------------------
        CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
        You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

        Comment


          #5
          CM,

          I will answer whatever I want. I don't get paid to come on this forum. I think you have lived under military rule too long and have no idea and respect for individual's right to choose. You and your buddy cannot force people to answer your posts or give answers you desire. Most participants understand this but it is interesting to note that I have to spell out this for you.

          Comment


            #6
            ZZ,

            Seems to be a genuine 'Punjabi Muslim analysis'. I lived many years at different places in Punjab including the biggest city i.e. Lahore. I want to add in this analysis is that they not only hate people with different religions but they also hate people from different cultures whether they are Muslims or not. Muslim Bengalis are the live example of hatred. In this forum not single Punjabi condemned the genocide and rape of Bengalis in 1971. Not only this but they also sort of supported the inhuman acts against Muslim Brethren. Their hatred with Sindhis, Balochis and Pathans is also not unusual. I was surprised when I met some of stupid ignorant Punjabis for them all Sindhis are Hindus!

            They make mockery of Sikhs by telling jokes in Pakistan, and proving that they are the most dumb, idiot people on earth. When I met many Sikhs in NA I found much better people and sensible than Muslim Punjabis. Muslim Punjabis are original Sikhs, they are converted Muslims. Instead of adopting true Islamic Values, they have adopted values, which are neither Sikh nor Islamic. They are most arrogant and racist people on this earth. Though they have done nothing to be proud of. May Allah show them the right path?


            Sincerely,

            FARID

            Comment


              #7
              Darn and i thought i could do any thing i wanted to do.
              Well too bad, really as you will remain ignorant forever then.

              ------------------
              CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
              You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

              Comment


                #8
                Farid[

                They make mockery of Sikhs by telling jokes in Pakistan, and proving that they are the most dumb, idiot people on earth. When I met many Sikhs in NA I found much better people and sensible than Muslim Punjabis. Muslim Punjabis are original Sikhs, they are converted Muslims. Instead of adopting true Islamic Values, they have adopted values, which are neither Sikh nor Islamic. They are most arrogant and racist people on this earth. Though they have done nothing to be proud of.

                I am appalled, Punjabi Muslims have absolutely no interaction with Sikhs they know nothing about them. As a Sikh most of my interaction with Punjabi muslims is limited to this forum. To make jokes of people they have not lived for a generation is ludicrous...I can only attribute this behavior towards intense jealousy and insecurity.... as Sikhs are very prosperous and ruled Punjab at one time.

                Just a correction, Muslims Punjabis were never Sikhs (maybe with a few exceptions) all Punjabis were Hindus at one time, some became Muslims and rest became Sikhs. Most Punjabi speaking Jats are either Sikhs or Muslims but among others Punjabis there are Hindu and Sikh Punjabis.

                Farid your post is a real eye opener.



                [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 17, 2000).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rani:
                  Very

                  This proves that countries formed on basis of religion are a bad idea, they breed hatred of people of other religion and that hatred eventually turns on each other.

                  [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 16, 2000).]
                  So give your piece of advice to your BJP led government who are dreaming of "Ram Raj" in India.

                  We Pakistanis are satisfied with our belief and your silly comments are not at all appealing to us.

                  If you think your Sikh doctrine has no values to impose it on a society that is your problem. To us Islam is a complete way of life and we are struggling to implement it 100% to form a true Islamic society, sooner or later!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Sophia Mujahid:
                    So give your piece of advice to your BJP led government who are dreaming of "Ram Raj" in India.

                    Indian constitution defends everybody and in democracy people are free to vote for the point of view they believe in.

                    We Pakistanis are satisfied with our belief and your silly comments are not at all appealing to us.

                    That is precisely meant to address that...according to article this kind of set-up leads to intoleration of others and I agree with it...read Farid's post.

                    If you think your Sikh doctrine has no values to impose it on a society that is your problem. To us Islam is a complete way of life and we are struggling to implement it 100% to form a true Islamic society, sooner or later!

                    It is cruel and uncivilized to impose your view point on others, everybody should have freedom to decide what is good for them...if Islam is so good as you claim it to be people will flock to it, you will not have to struggle to implement it. The above is a proof of your insecurity and lack of faith in what you believe in.




                    [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 17, 2000).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      [quote]Originally posted by Rani:
                      Originally posted by Sophia Mujahid:

                      Indian constitution defends everybody and in democracy people are free to vote for the point of view they believe in.

                      That is precisely meant to address that...according to article this kind of set-up leads to intoleration of others and I agree with it...read Farid's post.

                      It is cruel and uncivilized to impose your view point on others, everybody should have freedom to decide what is good for them...if Islam is so good as you claim it to be people will flock to it, you will not have to struggle to implement it. The above is a proof of your insecurity and lack of faith in what you believe in.
                      [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 17, 2000).]
                      You are talking about the constitution of Dr. Ambedkar, His statue is "honoured" a number of times by the "followers" of this constitution! What make you shy about saying something boldly about Ram Raj, you member of the minority?

                      Being satisfies with one's belief can relates to intolrance for others (?), that is due to filth stuffed in your sick brain otherwise, the world over the minorities are never in a trouble under A Muslim rule. If you are to deny the fact then its upto you.

                      Of course we are struggling, because building a nation in the neighbourhood of an evil empire is not matter of days or months. It is only our "faith" that we are existing despite all your cruel designs. never forget the name of our beloved country is PAKISTAN not KHALISTAN!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        rani, if u dont have any problems living under the boots of ppl from other faiths then whats wrong with the Muslim rule? It existed for centuries in india.... and should be brought back again.

                        indian muslims are a buncha cowards who are being toyed around by hindutva govt. so the hindu army gets away with destroying babri mosque... and there was nothing they could do about it. so what our ancestors made by giving great sacrifices they are letting it all go down the drain. Same characteristics of extreme cowardice are found among sikhs.... admitted by all the sikhs who KNOW and have brains which function. I find it insulting for these guys to be compared with the great people of the land of pure.

                        these minorities especially Muslims should learn a lot from the ussr massacres of Muslims.... after years of living together and mixing up with non-muslims..... they were still butchered. Similar tension exists between muslims, christians, sikhs, dalits and hindus..... muslims got a good review of it during bombay riots when they were booted out of their homes by hindutvas.

                        Lets call a spade a spade... hindus have a long way to go before they can tolerate their own hindu clan and give the 300 million shoodars a status they deserve as humans and not as brahman slaves.

                        We are the fort of Islam have provided safe heavens for Afghans in the time of war and Kashmiries and other indian muslims. Today Pakistan is the first nuclear country capable of destroying its enemy in minutes. What would we have accomplished under hindutvas?? so we are reminded again and again about the muslim scientists who are incharge of nuclear tech. O'well this would serve the hindutva and their govt really well.... when they use it on muslims. if we didnt have Pakistan we wouldnt have a Pak.org either so rani and others wouldnt have a medium to tell us why having a separate country is so bad for us.

                        grapes are very sour arent they. if u are happy to be a hindutva slave then be it..... dont tell us what we should and shouldnt have done.

                        [This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited September 17, 2000).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mundyaa:
                          rani, if u dont have any problems living under the boots of ppl from other faiths then whats wrong with the Muslim rule? It existed for centuries in india.... and should be brought back again.

                          You are living under Arabian boots we don't want to do that....We are all Indians and live together as Indian following an Indian religion, mind your dirty language....your jealousy and intoleration is showing. You were under that barbaric muslim rule...you took the religion of the invadors ..you can ask some sheik from the Middle East to rule you instead of your general. We want no part of that Sickness.

                          indian muslims are a buncha cowards who are being toyed around by hindutva govt. so the hindu army gets away with destroying babri mosque... and there was nothing they could do about it. so what our ancestors made by giving great sacrifices they are letting it all go down the drain.

                          Tell that to Indian muslims they hate intolerant mullah like yourself.


                          Same characteristics of extreme cowardice are found among sikhs.... admitted by all the sikhs who KNOW and have brains which function. I find it insulting for these guys to be compared with the great people of the land of pure.


                          We hate the way you treat non-muslims and minorities, we want no part of your self proclaimed greatness...all world knows about it.

                          these minorities especially Muslims should learn a lot from the ussr massacres of Muslims.... after years of living together and mixing up with non-muslims..... they were still butchered. Similar tension exists between muslims, christians, sikhs, dalits and hindus..... muslims got a good review of it during bombay riots when they were booted out of their homes by hindutvas.

                          Tell this to Sindis Baluochis and Paktoons they hate racist like yourself....read Farid's post...you don't have guts to reply him because he is telling the truth.

                          Lets call a spade a spade... hindus have a long way to go before they can tolerate their own hindu clan and give the 300 million shoodars a status they deserve as humans and not as brahman slaves.

                          Look who is preaching...the person who hates everybody...do something about Harris before you open your mouth.

                          These guys have a long way to go before they can be compared to the great ppl of the land of pure. We are the fort of Islam have provided safe heavens for Afghans in the time of war and Kashmiries and other indian muslims. Today Pakistan is the first nuclear country capable of destroying its enemy in minutes. What do these minorities in india have? What would we have accomplished under hindutvas?? wouldnt have a Pak.org either so rani and others wouldnt have a medium to tell us why having a separate country is so bad for us.

                          Minorities don't care about Mullah like you...and your hate filled agenda...you are truely pathetic


                          grapes are very sour arent they.

                          Are they, that is why you are preaching your hate filled philosphy.

                          No more discussion on this topic with you, you can stew in your own hatred...Good bye



                          [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 17, 2000).]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sophia Mujahid:
                            You are talking about the constitution of Dr. Ambedkar, His statue is "honoured" a number of times by the "followers" of this constitution! What make you shy about saying something boldly about Ram Raj, you member of the minority?

                            I have no problem with Ram Raj which means every citizen would be happy...it is Raj of people...we have democracy, no military general is ruling us with gun. I have no fear of Ram Raj.

                            Being satisfies with one's belief can relates to intolrance for others (?), that is due to filth stuffed in your sick brain otherwise, the world over the minorities are never in a trouble under A Muslim rule. If you are to deny the fact then its upto you.

                            I am glad you are satisfied with your belief and you have every right to be but imposing it on others and proclaiming it is the best and only way, is wrong. With exception of Malaysia (they are having lot of problem lately) muslims countries have no minorities they mistreat minorities and force them to convert.

                            Of course we are struggling, because building a nation in the neighbourhood of an evil empire is not matter of days or months. It is only our "faith" that we are existing despite all your cruel designs. never forget the name of our beloved country is PAKISTAN not KHALISTAN!


                            You are struggling because of your intoleration and disrespect for others. We have no cruel designs and we wish everybody Including you well...Amen.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              >>>You are living under Arabian boots we don't want to do that....We are all Indians and live together as Indian following an Indian religion, mind your dirty language....your jealous and intoleration is showing. Bring back your muslims rule in your mullah infested country we want any part of your sickness.<<<

                              i disagree... u live quite happily under hindutva army and they seem to be successfull in keeping u under their boots. and u are quite happy too.... so im sure u will do well under muslim rule. common now.... u shouldn't discriminate.

                              >>>Minorities don't care about Mullah like you...and your hate filled agenda...you are truely pathetic.Are they, that is why you are preaching your hate filled philosphy. <<<<<<

                              just for the record who started this crap about the creation of Pakistan in this thread? when the subject is punjabies and whatever else that is being discussed.
                              you are the one on a hate agenda.... and have the audacity to tell Pakistanies us that the creation of Pakistan was a mistake and that we should have also been happy under the hindutva boots. well not everyone is a slave after slave after slave like u and ur ancestors. So allow us to remind you of the FACTS and the TRUTH when u post such crap here.

                              >>>>No more discussion on this topic with you, you can stew in your own hatred...Good bye <<<<<<

                              Another emotional Goodbye.... after u have called me names like "truely pathetic" and "hate filled mullah" and whatever else. i care less about the name calling but these emotional goodbyes are reminiscent of 5 yr olds..... we used to do that back in k.g. dont u think its about time u got out of it too.

                              [This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited September 17, 2000).]

                              Comment

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