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    Plight of Hindus in Pak.

    Not that it is a surprise. Do u remember hangama in 'gupshup gallery' forum when someone posted the picture of Lord Ganesh. Given this level of intolerence and fanaticism even among educated Pakis, one would not be surprised of what the asylum-seekers are telling about mullas and villagers.

    If at all, our dead bodies will return to Pak: Migrant Hindus


    ANUPREETA DAS

    KAHNAUR (ROHTAK): Siddhuram, 35, is willing enough to talk about why he, along with his wife and eight children, has fled Pakistan, but on one condition. ``In what way can you help me?'' he asks. After extracting promises that you will not ``send me back'', he narrates his story.

    Five days ago, seven Hindu families a group totalling 40, including 14 adults and 26 children arrived from Leyya district in Punjab, on the Samjhauta Express, at their relatives' doorstep in this Haryana village of 5,000.

    ``If we go back, they will force us to convert to Islam,'' says Siddhuram, who used to work as a daily wage labourer in his native Jamanshah, Leyya.

    Unable to face relentless discrimination by Muslim villagers any longer Hindu women reportedly are not allowed to touch water taps, children are slapped for playing with Muslim neighbours, their temple was destroyed the group escaped to India with little other than their passports and visas for a 30-day stay.

    ``But there is no way we are going back once our visas expire. (Ab to sirf hamari lashen jayengi Pakistan) (If at all, our dead bodies will go to Pakistan), says Vazir Chand. Chand, who used to run an electro-homeopathy clinic, says he stopped getting patients after he refused to convert to Islam.

    The group, which is trying desperately to collect the Rs 31,500 needed to extend their visas for a year, is already being wooed by a Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) representative and has met local government authorities in Rohtak.

    ``We've come on the pretext of meeting our relatives, but actually, we're saving our lives,'' says Allah Doya Ram, who now feels safe enough to drop the `Allah' prefix. He claims the Hindu minorities in Leyya were initially issued separate identity cards, which were later withdrawn, but the hostility didn't abate.

    ``Our children are being forced to adopt Islamiyat in school,'' says Madan Lal. There is another reason why they are seeking a home in India. Asks Lal: ``Who will marry our teenaged daughters in Pakistan, especially since many Hindu people there are converting to Islam?''

    In 1998, 40 of the 60 Hindu families in Leyya traded their religion in the hope of a better life, after which the conversion threats from villagers and maulvis became unbearable for the remaining Hindu families. Faced with indifferent government authorities in Pakistan, they had no choice but to flee.

    ``We were not allowed to celebrate any Hindu festival, except after 11 pm, and that too, within our homes. Even the dead had to be buried according to Muslim customs,'' says Sabomai. She claims several women and young girls had been abducted, forced to convert and then married off to Muslims in the past two years.

    The families of these asylum-seekers (mostly Rajputs), had chosen to remain in Pakistan after Partition, and the passage to India only began recently, in the aftermath of ``the increasing violence between the two countries'', feels Siddhuram, who doesn't hesitate to indulge in his own bit of Muslim-bashing. ``I hate all Muslims now, even those in India,'' he says.

    The Kahnaur locals too have been enraged by the ``inhuman treatment'' meted out to their relatives. ``They will stay and work here with us now,'' asserts Marfat Chandrabhan, a village elder. Already, members of the Pakistani group have started tilling neighbouring fields, and are living out of temporary brick and cardboard structures. One such structure holds their 'imandir' , which they have brought with them from Leyya. EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE

    [This message has been edited by ZZ (edited September 12, 2000).]

    #2
    >>Unable to face relentless discrimination by Muslim villagers any longer Hindu women reportedly are not allowed to touch water taps, children are slapped for playing with Muslim neighbours, their temple was destroyed the group escaped to India with little other than their passports and visas for a 30-day stay.<<

    This treatment of human beings makes me sick. All the name calling participants telling us that BJP is evil and Sikhs are slaves should read this inhuman treatment of minorities ...I thank God that our Grand fathers had fore sight to see this coming and came to India. This is sickening.

    Followers of Islam are so insecure about their religion that they are forcibly converting people under the threat of abuse and violence. It is clear that Hindu who have converted recently do so to escape barbaric treatment not because of their love for Islam...

    People who compare India with Pakistan are living in some la la land there is no comparison.



    [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 12, 2000).]

    Comment


      #3
      hmmm… I wonder how many Pakistanis will ignore this Pak and Islam bashing thread the way threads related to HR violations in india and IOK are ignored by indians.

      [This message has been edited by sabah (edited September 12, 2000).]

      Comment


        #4
        This is terribly sad. The truth of the matter is that religious fundamentalism has always been prevalent in Pakistan and what you see now is nothing new. Atrocities are committed day in day out by the fanatic elements of the society. Forced conversions are not new, but have been the trademark of the religious establishment. In 1974, when Bhutto passed the resolution declaring Ahmadis non-Muslims, my family had to fled Multan for Lahore because threats were made to us, “either renounce your religion – which by the way a few Ahmadis did. The way it worked was that the local Mulla will announce on the Mosque loudspeaker that such and such family has denounced Ahmadiyat and have accepted Islam. After that sweets will be distributed.” So these were the circumstances under which Ahmadis were treated by the Molvi community. Most participants here are perhaps not too old to remember the early 70s, and some may yet accept it as a fate, and some more may even refuse to admit that it ever happened.

        So, I for one, can truly understand the sentiments of the Hindu families who want to stay in India. I think, given Pakistan’s record, India should offer asylum to these families and let them live in peace and practice their religion without fear of reprisals from anyone.

        Comment


          #5
          ZZ, Can you post the source of article and it's URL.

          Comment


            #6

            Pakistanies and Indians can both ignore the HR violations in their countries but they can never justify it. By ignoring such threads they are either admmitting or approving of such violations in both countries.


            بِن دانا پانی میں جی لواں
            بِن انَک میں جی نہ سکاں

            Comment


              #7
              NYA,
              If Hindus or any other minority group is persecuted in Pakistan, then its Pakistan's problem...Indians need not bother about that. But when India is accused of intolerance then Pakistanis need to look at the situation at home first. If you read Indian newspapers you may notice how little news there is about Pakistan's minorities and their treatment. Believe me there was a time when I thought Pakistan did not have any minorities
              Now compare this to what gets written in Pakistani newspapers -- let there be a small Hindu- Muslim riot and there will be an opinion or an editorial on that. There was an editorial on violence against Christians in India. We feel that Pakistan needs to justify its ideology time and again and this insecurity leads them to show that minorities in India (particularly Musims) are in a mess. We get lectured by none other than your dictator about how democracy should be implemented in Kashmir and how minorities should be treated in India. He had the gall to talk about Golden Temple, Babri mosque etc and even India's treatment of the so called "low class" people. All this from a fanatic, power hungry and irresponsible dictator.

              Comment


                #8
                It's bull****!

                Neither Islam allows such convertions nor such a problem exists in Pakistan.

                Its quite amusing that a few days ago Rani did not know if there were any Hindus in Pakistan and today she is talking about their problems!

                However, I am concerned about The Qadiuanis. It was a blunder made by (late) Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. I always pray and hope that time will come and the whole Ummah will realize it to regard Qadiyanis as true Muslims. I regard Qadiyanis just another school of thought with minor difference of opinion with other sects. Mr. Ahamdi's participation in this discussion depicts his grudge against his "fellow" Muslims , its a passimist approach!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Mohabbat, I chanced to find it at : http://www.indian-express.com/ie/dai.../ina12052.html

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Prosecution of people based on any criteria such as race, religion etc etc is plain and simple wrong. Without going into a pak-india debate I will say Pakistan's record is not good and there need to be steps to improve the conditions. This mistreatment is not just for religeous minorties, but racial as well.

                    To all my indian pals here, guys before you get on my case, I feel you have a right to comment on it, everyone does whether one feels a bond to any people due to religion or due to just humanity...

                    and Rani..I am not going to talk about prejudism and hatred in general because you always assume that I am trying to divert the issue, which I never am unless I am talking about my twirling dervish school of thought.
                    One request, please stop generalizing about Islam and its followers...you have always compared your such statements to similar statements made by some muslims on this board..but then did two wrongs ever make a right?

                    Either way, atrocities towards any group anywhere are wrong, when we start viewing lives of people as expendible or have no regard for their civil liberties because they are different from us, we are on a dangerous path.

                    and to may pakistani pals, guys..lets not belittle anything because we feel that its not true, we should check the facts first. We dont like it when others show indifference..why should we act in a samilar manner? (Note: by "others" i mean others in general sense of the word and am not implying "others" = "indians" here..in the event someone is wondering)
                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
                      [b]This is terribly sad.

                      No **** sherlock, but how come i don't see your ass down in the post where kashmiri women are sold as prostitutes???
                      Isn't that sad???
                      Or is that acceptable by your standards.
                      Good to see you back at what you do best.


                      Forced conversions are not new, but have been the trademark of the religious establishment.

                      Yeah but Hindus bombing christain chruches is ok right???

                      In 1974, when Bhutto passed the resolution declaring Ahmadis non-Muslims, my family had to fled Multan for Lahore because threats were made to us, “either renounce your religion – which by the way a few Ahmadis did. The way it worked was that the local Mulla will announce on the Mosque loudspeaker that such and such family has denounced Ahmadiyat and have accepted Islam. After that sweets will be distributed.” So these were the circumstances under which Ahmadis were treated by the Molvi community. Most participants here are perhaps not too old to remember the early 70s, and some may yet accept it as a fate, and some more may even refuse to admit that it ever happened.

                      What happened to should not have happened.
                      For that i am truly sorry and would like to apologise on behalf of the psycho mullahs.


                      So, I for one, can truly understand the sentiments of the Hindu families who want to stay in India.

                      Then you can understand the Kashmiri demand to join pakistan or have freedom in a seperate country

                      I think, given Pakistan’s record, India should offer asylum to these families and let them live in peace and practice their religion without fear of reprisals from anyone.

                      I think with indias record it should be held at par with china and its human rights abuses.
                      Did you know here in swiss, anybody from kashmir is given a free stay for 20 years and paid 2000 dollars a month due to what the indians have done in kashmir.


                      ------------------
                      CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE
                      You can't fix stupid. So might as well troll them!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Fraudia,

                        Read below the account given by the Hindus from Pakistan, it is clear by their account that they were abused and treated in this inhuman fashion because they were Hindus...

                        ================================================== ========================================

                        Five days ago, seven Hindu families a group totalling 40, including 14 adults and 26 children arrived from Leyya district in Punjab, on the Samjhauta Express, at their relatives' doorstep in this Haryana village of 5,000.

                        ``If we go back, they will force us to convert to Islam,'' says Siddhuram, who used to work as a daily wage labourer in his native Jamanshah, Leyya.

                        Unable to face relentless discrimination by Muslim villagers any longer Hindu women reportedly are not allowed to touch water taps, children are slapped for playing with Muslim neighbours, their temple was destroyed the group escaped to India with little other than their passports and visas for a 30-day stay.

                        In 1998, 40 of the 60 Hindu families in Leyya traded their religion in the hope of a better life, after which the conversion threats from villagers and maulvis became unbearable for the remaining Hindu families. Faced with indifferent government authorities in Pakistan, they had no choice but to flee.
                        ``[b]We were not allowed to celebrate any Hindu festival, except after 11 pm, and that too, within our homes. Even the dead had to be buried according to Muslim customs,'' says Sabomai. She claims several women and young girls had been abducted, forced to convert and then married off to Muslims in the past two years.<<

                        ================================================== ========================================

                        This is not the case of racism as suggested by you as many Pakistani belong to the same race (Rajput) and share common ancestory with them. According to posts on the forum Rajput is considered a high caste in Pakistan- not that I care..

                        This is not the first group of people to cross over because of terrible treatment...last years also a group of Hindus from Pakistan refused to go back. These people will be facing a very hard life in India but they are prepare to give up their homes and live in shacks because they fear for their life and don't want to be forcibly converted.

                        I think you should read NYA story, Ahmedis are very close to Islam even they had to flee from their homes ...in that kind of envoirnment Hindus have no hope.



                        [This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 12, 2000).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have lived in Sind, where majority of hindus live....I have not seen any persecution of any kind.... quite the reverse.. there are seats reserved for hindus and they can compete on open merit as well .... in interior sind they are the most welll off ppl, excepting thar(badin district) where the hindus are in majority so there are poor hindus and rich hindus....
                          during undergrad there were 5 departments in our engg college and two of the dept heads were hindus profs... my advisor was also a hindu ( incidentally my maj prof here in US is also hindu...but he is an indian)....there were many hindu students in our class....more than the percentage of hindus in sindh.... I had 2-3 hindu friends .... i dont say that this news is wrong or anything ... only these may be isolated incidents blown up by indian press.... look at the condition of muslims in india......... in our university there are more than a 200 indian students NOT ONE...yes NOT a single of them is muslim...with 15% muslim population i would expect atleast 30 muslim students... where are they.....????
                          on the other hand there are some 30-40 paksitani students and there is atleast one hindu pakistani.... need i say more.....
                          You ppl blow up the issue of mullaism in pakistan...fact of the matter is that mulla is the most pathetic fellow in pakistan... he lives by charity of others... how can a person who is at the bottem rung of the society have any significant influnece...?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            CM, that was very nice of you to apologize on mullas’ behalf, but honestly, shove that apology up your cute little hiny. Now if you are really serious about getting the situation improved for religious minorities in Pakistan, here are the issue that you may voice your opinion about. Let me give you a brief overview:

                            1. I will be breaking Pakistani Law by saying “AsalamaLakum” to a Muslim (however the law is not enforced, but is a Law nonetheless).
                            2. I can not call my mosque a “Masjid”, am not allowed to call Azan over the loudspeaker (by the way 100% same Azan as Sunnis), cannot paint “Kalma” inside my mosque, and cannot keep copies of Quran. All these are “Laws”.
                            3. I cannot name my child “Mohammad” (pending resolution, not yet passed).

                            Now tell me, would your sorryass apology will make me happy?

                            You asked my opinion about the plight of Kashmiris. Well, I feel for them and I feel that they are getting a raw deal and are being screwed for no reason. It will be more fruitful for Kashmiris to decide (in my opinion, it will be a mistake for them to unite with Pakistan, should they ever get separation from India) their own fate, much like Bangladeshis.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              NYA yar why do you have to use filthy and insulting language in reply to what CM said? What is wrong with you man? CM gave a pretty good answer to your query about your community... as he is not a politician and can do nothing to make up for ZAB did to your people. We as individuals can apologise and condemn such acts? - what else can we do?

                              As for the plight of Hindu's - as this article is from a propogandist Indian rag do you think that we should give it any attention?

                              Show me a similar story from an independent source and then this very relevant topic can be discussed along with religous persecution across South Asia....

                              Comment

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