Pakistan Should Follow the Turkish Model of Secularism

[Akmed786]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...000/904576.stm

I think the west should provide more aid to Turkey in its effort to weed out islamist dirt bags out of its politcal system.

If Turkey succeeds, other islamic nations will be encouraged to follow through.

[CM]

Why don't we weed out idiots like you first and leave the freedom of religion to humans!!!

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[NYAhmadiX]

CM, Do you mean freedom for all religions, or just one or two? But I do agree with your point. Turks are notorious in terms of their record on Human rights and freedom of religion. Ideally, some model between the two extremes is probably more suitable for Pakistan. A place where every one can practice their belief system and a place where religion is kept out of state affairs and public life. Such a model is alive and well in the USA.

In my opinion, Turks stink. Not the people, but the military that dominate political sphere. Whereas I can seen their apprehension of allowing religious and extremists elements of the society taking things a bit too far right, but it gives them no right to make their ordinary citizens live in a state of fear.

[Mr Xtreme]

I think Malaysia is a better role model.

[CM]

Yes Mr.Xtreme Malaysia is a better example, but that post went down the drain as people rather fight here and insult each other than discuss something at an intellectual level.

NYA - where have you been??
Anyway loved the city you live in.
Went every where - times square, world trade center, UN etc.
Had an absolute blast.
BAck to the topic.
Yes i do mean all religions.
Personally i find turks very hypocritical and arrogant.
Firstly the whole Kurdish issue.
But then the thing with religion.
I mean a women was kicked out of the parliament which she was elected to becuase she wore a scraf - talk about stupid!!!!

As for Pakistan.
I would personlly see a place where no religion is outlawed.
For example the whole Qadiani - spelling correct?? - thing Bhutto did or was it Zia??
But any way i don't agree with it.
No human has the right to outlaw a religion.
That is only ALLAH job.

Yes religious freedom for all people, like islam intended.
BUT islamic rule only applies to muslims.
Like Malaysia.
However the Blashphemy law should amended to inculde all relgions not just islam.
And that insulting ones religion should be a serious offense.

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[Akmed786]

Malaysia maybe a better role model, but Mahathir faces the same problems as the Turkish leaders do.
The islamic fundos in Malaysia claim Mahathir is NOT a 'Bhumiputra' since his ancestors were Indian/hindu.

Malaysians by and large are docile people hence we haven't noticed widespread islamic fundo problems YET.

[CM]

Have you lived in Malaysia??
That statement about them being docile is crap.
They can't be very violent if provoked.
Remember the muslims in Indo and the educated malay muslims are the same people.
They are educated both in Islam and other wise ie schooling.
Thus no Fundos.
The fundos are the illeterate folk who believe everything the corrupt mullah tells them.
Also the fundos in Malay are far from the psycho's fundo's in Pakistan.
And i refuse to call the pakistani psycho fundos muslims.

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[Mr Xtreme]

>>Have you lived in Malaysia??
That statement about them being docile is crap.

You are absolutely spot on CM. I believe the term "amok" has Malay origins which describes Malays when their wrath has been aroused. I think civilised would be a better term than docile in the case of Malays. Turkey has recently been taken to task by EU for outlawing headcoverings. Now Europe is protecting muslim rights in a muslim country!!

Moral: The original is always better than a fake copy!

[Akmed786]

CM,

You are right about Indos and Malaysians. Their pious nature is rooted in the religion & culture (Hindu & Buddhist) of their ancestors.

[CM]

Well extreme i don't know about the word, but i will take your word for it.
As for the EU, they really do mean well for the muslims even though they are so stupid they can't see what is right and what is wrong.
"Now Europe is protecting muslim rights in a muslim country!!"
That is hilarious.
You should see the Turks in my college - they try to act all Europeans.
for example One girl smoked a pack before an exam, was wearing a tank top and mini very mini skirt.
Then during the exam asks myself and a egyptian friend what the Kalma is!!!
So that she start the exam off in the name of ALLAH.
After the exams - it was a killer - she goes to the cafe and drinks a bottle of wine.
Our college has a very liberal policy on drink - it is europe!!!
Anyway, the muslims are annoyed and the europeans behind her back make fun of her.
So in Europe the Turks aren't taken seriously and in the arab world they are see as infidels.
Oh yeah just realised my mistake i meant to say Malaysians can be very violent if provoked.
And not can't.
At least everybody understood what i wanted to say.

Akmed - well we have an idiot on board wouldn't ya know.
Indo has only one area with a Hindu population.
That of course is Bali.
Where muslims aren't allowed freedom of worship and thus teh island is 100% Hindu.
A total of 2% of the population.
And the only buddhists are the chinese in Indo.
I have never come across a indonesia buddhist.

Malay on the other hand has hindu people but all first level indians.
Meaning immigrants.
Not nationals.
The majority of the people are ethnic muslism from arab times or chinese new and old.

There goes your whole ancestors crap - completely blown out of the water.

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[Akmed786]

CM,
YOu are right about Bali. It is the only island with majority hindu population, and that is where most tourist prefer to go. If you think hinduism did not exist before islam spread in S.E Asia, care to tell me how come so many Indonesians/Malays including muslims have hindu names ???

Examples..

Garuda (from the great epic Ramayana)
Suharto
Sukarno
Mahathir
Ananta
Kalimanthan

[CM]

Well, we i was their Balis was a beautiful place.
But Since Lombok and Komodo Island have been built up, i rather go there.
No hawkers to follow you around.
And atleast it is clean - for some reason the hindu temples were always dirty.
This is meant as an observation and not an insult.
Also lombok and others have better beaches and they are more natural looking.
Bali till 1998 was the place to visit.
Not any more.

Now the names.
Sukarno, was a native so i have no idea.
But Suharto was an ethnic chinese man, and used the name to show the people he was muslim - which he wasn't.
Names that once were hindu now in indonesia are muslim names.
I will ask my indonesian friends about the names and get back to you by say wednesday next week.

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

[salafi]

akmed786,

I got news for you dirt bag. The turkish experimentation will fail miserably, InshaAllah. The call of Islam is resurging and is being carried through the lands of the Muslims and other than it. The so called world power Russia was defeated in Afghanistan and then again in Chechnya in 1996. And today again the Russian army is shivering in front of a few thousand Mujahideen, may Allah hasten their victory. Soon dirt bags like you will also be weeded out of society. Understand.

THE FUTURE BELONGS TO ISLAAM.

[Akmed786]

Salafi,

Afghanistan succeded because USA gave money and arms to do janitorial work for the west.

Chechnya was won and lost it in 1999. In future USA/west will not help any islamic country outside the gulf regions to resolve their border disputes.

[CM]

Akmed, really!!!
I find the lack of knowledge on part of the Indians on Afghanistan is appalling!!!
Saudi covered 50% of the funding that inculded buying arms and funding.
Pakistan cover 15%
The rest was by the US.
Main weapons used were Chinese, Isreali and Eqyptain.
Not until did 1987 did we use US arms.

------------------
CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE