To celebrate or not to celebrate the 14th August, the 53rd Birthday of Pakistan-That

[Farid]

Just think on the 53rd Birthday what we have lost/achieved after more than five decades

1) Democracy is still a dream even after lapse of 53 years. Successive military governments never wanted that a genuine democracy be flourished in this country.
2) We lost major portion of Pakistan in 1971. People responsible for the loss never tried for atrocities in former East Pakistan and those who gave the half portion of country on a silver platelet to India. Many stupid people still justified the breakup without realizing they are negating very justification of Pakistan itself.
3) As a nation we have been a complete failure to recognize ourselves as a genuine nation before the whole world.
4) Basically we are the same people as people of India. We share common culture, language, traditions etc except religion. But religion itself never proved to be binding force to form cohesive society like in NA and Europe. Our credibility is far less than India in the eyes of rest of the world including Muslim Countries.
5) We are complete failure in creating the atmosphere of trust, love, empathy, affection and love for others.
6) We are complete failure in Patriotism. Self interest had always took the precedence over national interests.
7) Complete failure in creation of basic institutions. E.g. Honest justice system which can deliver judgement without noticing who is in power. This failure has resulted legalization of corruption every where.
8) The press has always given the false information whenever country suffered a disaster. The press has also divided the communities on the lines of language, province, sect, faith, and so on. It had completely failed to establish as a credible institution. It has always gone against the wishes of masses to kiss the asses of who ever is in power just for commercial and marketing reasons.


It is the right of every sovereign nation to celebrate its creation. Keeping in view the above list (incomplete) I leave the decision to the readers whether to celebrate the 53rd birthday or mourn the 29th anniversay of breakup of the country.

Sincerely,
FARID M


[This message has been edited by Farid (edited August 13, 2000).]

[Andhra]

Farid >>Basically we are the same people as people of India. We share common culture, language, traditions etc except religion

Farid if you are a Pakistani living in Pakistan do not say that to anybody

[sabah]

Farid

What has number 4 on your list to do with Pak’s achievements or failures?

Anyway, I think we’ve had more then one threads in the past few weeks, in which we’ve talked this failure of Pak etc. I’d be very surprised if you get any real reply to this. I was thinking of adding some more ‘numbers’ to your incomplete list, but then again we already know them. We could also try and mention the tiny lil things we’ve achieved but that’s boring. Few days ago, ‘Godfather’ a member of this forum posted a nice post about us, the future of Pak, I don’t know which age group you’re representing, my fathers, or mine - perhaps you should read that thread and ask your self a couple of questions.

Now about celebrating Azadi, as I understand it it’s not obligatory, so no one is really forcing anyone to do anything special today. Perhaps lil prayer for Pak is too much for us – You know what, My Grand mother is visiting us (sorry for boring you) she told us that when she was young, they didn’t even know how to make tea, or why tomatoes ‘disappear’ in handi! Now we have internet access from my village, not a biggie for many like me, as I’m used to a comfortable life, but from not even daring to touch the bulb when it first came to my village to modern tech, I think much has been done, perhaps we owe the contributors a lil appreciation, that’s just one lil ex. Yeah we do have problems, and we should know about them, in order to find solutions, but don’t insult millions of our Pak brothers and sisters, whom have worked for Pak’s development.

Azadi Mubarak, agar aap khud ko azad mehsoos kerte haiN to.

[The Godfather]

Whilst we continue to point out Pakistan failures on this forum Sabah is right - we all know them. I admit, I too posted long articles stating in depth the many things wrong with Pakistan.

I think the one thing we need to learn, as a nation is Patience. Furthermore, we need to be acutely aware of what democracy actually is. If we hold present western democracies to be a shining example of democracy in action - then I can assure you it is not. Large degrees of voter apathy coupled with an uninformed electorate had reduced democracy to the media circus of sound bites and spin that now prevails in both American and British 'democracies.' Such a method of politics is designed to do nothing other than to gain large scale mass populist support. Politics in these countries is not based on substance but on catchy slogans such as the one used by New Labour to win a landslide victory in the previous election - 'New Labour, New Britain.' You would be surprised at the power of the word 'new.' Hence, this is not the sort of democracy we should be aspiring to.

There are however some important factors we should draw from the 'democracies' of the west. True, Pakistan has had 3 military governments in only 53 years. Such a thing is unimaginable in Germany, France, Britain or America. But we must be careful - all these countries have experienced autonomous democracy for many hundreds of years. They all have set institutions known and revered the world over - such as the Houses of Parliament and Westminster, or the White house, the Reichstag and so on. These institutions have stood for many hundreds of years and there is a long tradition of democracy in these countries. Pakistan is still a mere embryo in terms of national evolution on the global stage. We have not yet gained the experience of these countries nor do we share the same sense of political tradition as they do. Our institutions are still baseless and will struggle to find their foundations for many years yet. Just look at what happened in Germany following the first world war. There was no sense of democratic tradition there - yet the rulers of the country forced it upon them. There was, in general, a rejection of democracy and a misunderstanding of what it should represent amongst the common German as a result one of history's most disgusting and notorious animals was born - Hitler.

Another century or so, of peaceful political evolution shall see Pakistan blossom into a wonderful nation. This is inevitable - but is unlikely to happen in our lifetime. in that time a tradition of democracy will grow - Pakistan will being to understand exactly what a democracy means.

Hence, in conclusion, our 53rd birthday (to me at least) represents a period of trial and error as a juvenile nation struggles to find her natural identity and thus destiny. But like all babies we must first learn how to crawl before we learn how to walk. Inevitably we will fall over a few times - perhaps even banging our head against the wall. Eventually, though we will learn how to walk and then run, jump, skip and so on.

Respectfully Yours,

The godfather.

[Andhra]

Let me participate in the discussion in the same spirit Farid has started .

>>1) Democracy is still a dream even after lapse of 53 years
Not to worry.I am quite proud of Indian Democracy but I have always described it as 'Functioning Democracy', nothing like Western democracy.
Now that some "Great Leaders" are dead and buried, it is improving.
The good news for you is Musharaaaf is not trying to create a rubber stamp Parliament like Zia did.
2) We lost major portion of Pakistan in 1971.
Pakistan as it was formed was an unviable state from the very beginning.You should have kept the Bengalis happy.
You are separated by language,culture and a hostile neighbour
3) As a nation we have been a complete failure.
I don't think Pakistan has been a complete failure.
I think Zia's rule was the most unfortunate thing to have happened to Pakistan, not the dismemberment of Pakistan.
>> Basically we are the same people as people of India. We share common culture, language, traditions etc except religion.

Well Pakistanis and Indians once they get out of the subcontinent realise that to some extent.

>>We are complete failure in Patriotism. Self interest had always took the precedence over national interests.
Desi Phenomenon !
>>Complete failure in creation of basic institutions. E.g. Honest justice system which can deliver judgement without noticing who is in power.
May be I can claim a credit for the Indian Judiciary here!
>>The press has always given the false information whenever country suffered a disaster.

I heard the Urdu press is totally against India.Well in the English press some of the writers are good.Some of them are really loony.I once read a story about how Indira Gandhi was planning to invade the Sultanate Of Oman


So cheer up Farid, it is not all bad.

[BombayKid]

This should be a proud moment for any country and instead of harping on the failures, you should look at the successes and take inspiration from it. I think its stupid and irritating to just talk about failures.

[Rational]

I agree with Andhra and BK. I think we need to learn from our mistakes of the past and rememdy them in our present and future. The biggest problem we have with India is over Kashmir and we have to resolve it ASAP so that we both can get along with our lives. On a less serious note what will happen to this Guppi side once the fate of Kashmir is decided? I guess we will have no reason left to argue
So Farid baba don't despair.

PAIWASTA RAH SHAJAR SE
UMID-E-BAHAR RAKH

[Andhra]

>>On a less serious note what will happen to this Guppi side once the fate of Kashmir is decided?

Don't worry.Desis are resouceful people.We can always come up with something else

[Farid]

Sabah,

What I mean was that originally Pakistan was also part of India and our parents or grand parents were Indians. We share same culture, languages, and even religion as more Muslims live in India than in Pakistan. Why there is confusion on this point? Are you descendent of American, European, or Canadian Or as some stupid people say that their ancestors came from Arabia, Iran or whatever?

Since we belong to same origin, then how come they have advanced in every field name it any, science, technology, economy etc. India is known as biggest democracy in the World. Unfortunately we did not achieve even 25% what India has achieved today. GOT IT.

I will tell you that whether I belong to your age group or your parents' but first you have to tell me your age first? If you don't its o.k.

Sincerely,

FARID

[Farid]

BombyKid,

Let me ask you what will be your feelings on 53rd birthday of India, if it is divided in to half. Kashmir becomes par of Pakistan, your government run by some general Arora Singh? There is uncertainty about your country’s future etc., How much stupid would you look like by celebrating Indian birthday like you celebrate now?

Sincerely,
FARID

[sabah]

Farid Bhai

I don’t think that I said that we don’t have problems or that we’re building multi stories on moon, just that we have achieved a lil and those ppl deserve to be appreciated.

>>What I mean was that originally Pakistan was also part of India and our parents or grand parents were Indians. We share same culture, languages, and even religion as more Muslims live in India than in Pakistan. Why there is confusion on this point? <<

There is absolutely no confusion, just that there is a tiny lil difference between ’Was’ and ’Is’. I’m proud of our history, and I’m hopeful about our future, we don’t achieve much with our constant negative attitude

As for my age lets just say I’m 20+, is that ok, or did you ask for exact date month and year, if you promise to reply without getting too emotional I can post that too.

Besides, we can very well compare us with Indian, do me a favour and compare an average Indian’s attitude with an average Pakistanis as well, and tell me what the difference is.

[Malik73]

Farid while you point to the 'failures' of Pakistan maybe you would be kind enough to point to some of the great successes of Pakistan i.e. the freedom of 300 million Muslims (in PAK and Bangla) from Hindu-majority rule, the freedom to rule ourselves according to our traditions and rules (despite our many setbacks and constant drawbacks) and creating a Muslim-majority state which other Muslim states look at with pride. Other examples include our relative economic advantage as compared to the average Indian, the absence of the cruelty of the caste system (as in India) etc etc

If Jews can be allowed to create their own state in Palestine then why cannot Muslims from former India also create an idealogical state of their own?

Malik73 - proud Pakistani reporting from Karachi, Sindh, PAKISTAN!

P.S. Farid do you consider yourself Pakistani, Sindhi or other?

[Andhra]

>>Since we belong to same origin, then how come they have advanced in every field name it any, science, technology, economy etc.<<

Farid I asked the same question when I compared the acheivements of East and West Benglis in another thread.
The thread ran into 6 pages but I never got the answer for that one
SO hope you will get an answer for your question one day!

[Farid]

Andhra,

Answer can be simple or complicated. India is lucky enough to have sincere leaders since 1947 their only interest was/is to serve India. However no body is perfect. Irrespective of committing mistakes, they have always upheld democracy as their supreme objective. Mostly, the leaders may have other drawbacks but they are/were generally honest in their dealings and always kept national interest above any other interest.. They have tried their best to safe guard the constitution of the country where no member of the armed forces dare to kick the ass of elected leadership.

Sincerely
FARID

[Farid]

Sabah,

Your age is 20+? There is great margin between 21 and 29. Just kidding. I will be 39 years on Nov 09 of this year. I have the same birth date as Allama Iqbal and I am Scorpio. Now decide your self whether I can be of your age group or your parents.

Sincerely
FARID