are`nt we, pakistanis, too nationalists??

[ashik]

pakistani dosto aur pakistani dostno, adaab
i feel that we pakistanis are too nationalists in our thinking. our songs are too nationalists and our ideals are too national. and we have no concious what real watan-mohabbat means. does country-love only mean, that we have to be like soldiers and only to have make a war?? does it not mean that we first have to destroy all the unjustices in our own country "PAKISTAN"? does it not mean, that we first give justice to all our own people in our own country "PAKISTAN"? but how many people just think about it? and how many peolpe just try to realise it?

why there is no smiley to show a crying boy?????? cause i am crying by thinking about this.

[2PaK]

what the hell u talking about? we're probably the least nationalistic ppl in the world.

[sabah]

Ashik

What do you mean by ’too nationalist’?

I’m not sure whether I’m too nationalistic or not, but a very proud Pakistani I definitely am.

>>i feel that we pakistanis are too nationalists in our thinking. our songs are too nationalists and our ideals are too national. and we have no concious what real watan-mohabbat means.<<

What are you trying to say here? How can you be nationalist without knowing what ’watan mohabat’ is?

I think it’ll be easier to answer your questions if you explain key words you’re using in your post, like nationalists and watan mohabat.

[ashik]

Originally posted by sabah:
Ashik

What do you mean by ’too nationalist’?

I think it’ll be easier to answer your questions if you explain key words you’re using in your post, like nationalists and watan mohabat.

sorry saba if i hurt u.
what i wanna say is that we in our so said proud of watan or what u name it ever are so deeply sunk that we dont know when we get over to nationalism. our ideals are soldiers fighting for watannobody interests for real democracy. our songs are "jeete ga bhai jeete ga, pakistan jeete ga". and so on. what i think about watan-mohabbat i explained it in my questions written in the first comment.
please dont get angry to me. i am very weak person, cannot fight with u. but only discuss.

[LAZER]

NO Its wrong to say that we are too
nationalist.

WE Pakistani are very egoist, we think only
for our "KHANDAN" and other are not worth
thinking.
If we Loved our Country then it would have
been a good place to be in.Now we have depent
our Army, the Only Institution which is Still working.

We should thank our Army not only for protecting our border but also trying
to take PAkistan back on track.

But one think is natioanal sport for us,copmete with India in everything.
And i hope we win every battle with as usual
INSHALLAH

[sabah]

Chanda I’m not mad at all – and I don’t get hurt coz of some questions either

Anyway, I have no problem with your post, just don’t write as if you’re representing us all, that means don’t use words like WE. We, oh well I am proud of Pak coz I have many different reasons to be so. Perhaps you’d like to talk about some real problems instead of telling us that being proud of what our forefathers fought for and what gives us an identity is wrong. Loving your country can’t possibly be wrong, not being able to see your mistakes is. We Pakistanis are more then capable to see and admit that we have done wrong – we even do that more often then necessary. Can you mention one other nation that criticizes every thing about their country the way we do? We are not idiots or brain dead followers of some pathetic ideology. Back your assumptions with facts and good solid observations, it’s very difficult for others to take new members seriously who just come in to tell us how bad we are, no one even cares to say ’no we’re not that bad’ anymore.

By the way, howcome a man fighting and in some cases dyeing to protect his and our homeland is not worthy of becoming our ideal? Those soldiers are not just protecting a piece of land they are fighting for our honor, dignity our freedom, us. Howcome supporting your country in whatever way, even through songs is not correct? Again I seriously don’t understand how ppl can sink coz they love their country.

[ashik]

to sabah and to lazer perhaps, too.
thanx sabah & lazer for your polite answers
well sabah jee, first i wanna try to tell, that i mean extremely serious though i am new here. u are experienced in such a discussions, i dont understand, why u dont understand me. r u proud of this country pakistan, coz u have only this one? r u proud of this pakistan, coz ur forefather fought for this country? r u proud of this coz everybody criticises pakistan? or r u proud of pakistan, coz what? i dont understand, why WE pakistanis are proud of this piece of land, which does not give to its own pakistani people even the daily justice. everything is corrupt and the bigger fish is just eating the smaller. u plz dont try to show me the nice side of Pakistan, plz dont show me the scenery. is there any principle we are following axept as LAZER told egoism???? plz give me a reaseón that i wanna be proud of my own country coz i havent any other!! plz be polite to me otherwise i will weap.
and sabah jee, u r moderator, why u dont have an email?? just a question.

[This message has been edited by ashik (edited July 27, 2000).]

[sabah]

Ashik I do have an e-mail, but I prefer that ppl talk to me here, if it’s about GupShup, for suggestions criticism or complains I have an email, and it’s on top of this page.

Now back to the topic, had you been a senior member I probably wouldn’t have been here coz like many others I too am tired of convincing ppl who wants to discuss but have a conclusion ready even before they post a question.

>> i dont understand, why u dont understand me. <<
Well I lied I did understand you, just wanted to be sure that what I read from your post was what you meant to say. I was kinda hoping that you’d say something different.

>>r u proud of this country pakistan, coz u have only this one?<<
Nah, I have another choise and I choose to be proud of both.

>>r u proud of this pakistan, coz ur forefather fought for this country? <<
Yeah!

>>r u proud of this coz everybody criticises pakistan? <<
Criticism is not bad useless and endless criticism is. You can’t make the whole world happy especially if they choose to stay in misery.

>>or r u proud of pakistan, coz what? <<
Hmmm…so you’re looking for reasons to be proud of the place called Pakistan.

>>i dont understand, why WE pakistanis are proud of this piece of land, which does not give to its own pakistani people even the daily justice. everything is corrupt and the bigger fish is just eating the smaller.<<

Mention one country on the face on this plant that doesn’t have same problems as Pak. Again chanda we look bad coz we admit our mistakes, unlike others. By the way, it’s your responsibility to get information about whatever you care for, if you look for bad you’ll find bad. A hint, find some pictures of Pak around 50’ies and compare them with pic’s of today’s Pak, one has to be deadly blind if one can’t see any difference. Why is it not ok for us to be proud of that positive difference?

>>u plz dont try to show me the nice side of Pakistan, plz dont show me the scenery.<<

Don’t worry dear, I wont even try – it’s your loss honey not mine, Pak is doing just fine with or without your nationalism. Of course your hands and mind working pro Pak would be better, but Pak can survive without, Insha Allah.

>> is there any principle we are following axept as LAZER told egoism???? <<
Yeah I see a lot of egoism when I see thousands of social works, volunteers and billions of patriotic Pakistanis who have worked for Pak in decades. Yeah we are egoists and that’s why so much has happened in Pak. You could also call us idiots, coz that’s what we really are.

>>plz give me a reaseón that i wanna be proud of my own country coz i havent any other!!<<
No, you find you’re own reasons to be proud, it’s your responsibility not others or mine. By the way what kinda person wants to know what others have done for him or are doing for him now, while he/she can sit relaxed and criticize every now and then?

If you are interested in help to see a different pic of Pak, show positive interest, don’t give me assumptions or tell me that I’m not allowed to give you a better pic of Pak. At this point I can just say if you’re going to talk negative about Pak, you better have some strong facts to support you – this is Pak site, and the least we can do is to promote Pak by telling the truth about us, you’re are talking about assumptions.

>>plz be polite to me otherwise i will weap.<<
Trying

[ashik]

Originally posted by sabah:
At this point I can just say if you’re going to talk negative about Pak, you better have some strong facts to support you – this is Pak site, and the least we can do is to promote Pak by telling the truth about us, you’re are talking about assumptions.

>>plz be polite to me otherwise i will weap.<<
Trying

ooops sabah, sorry yaar, i am new, dont know the rules. i got in the kachar of lions. i better shut up.
me jo bola kaha ke yeh awaaz<<<<
ussi khana kharab ki see hai(meer)

u got personly involved, hehehhehehhe , nationalist.
and nobody else speaks here.

[Malik73]

Sabah and others I think I know exactly what Ashik is talking about. As an overseas Pakistani in my youth I was somewhat puzzled at why there was so much patriotic feeling in Pakistan - the endless patriotic songs like "Dil Dil Pakistan" etc, the rather chauvinistic (or superior) attitude towards overseas Pakistani's and a slightly overbearing use of religous references in everyday life.

Its not these sort of feelings that I was puzzled with but the other aspects of Pakistani life - biradrism, regionalism, ethnic cleavages and religious differences. I would ask myself if I am a proud Pakistani why is my biradri, my overseas origins and my Upper Punjab roots always brought up in everyday conversation.

As a proud Pakistani I don't care what part of Pakistan a person comes from, a person's biradri, whether a person is Sunni, Shia, Christian or whatever. To me patritiotism is overlooking these sort of differences. But as I got older and travelled around Pakistan I realised that most parts of Pakistan are refreshingly vibrant and colourful, where more and more people are overlooking these differences .Pakistan is becoming a more confident, homogenous nation in the mould of the Quaid-e-Azam i.e. more Pakistani

[Some1]

Malik73 and Sabah :
I read ,Proud Pakistani , quite often in your posts. No offence meant..just a straight question....Why are u proud of Pakistan ? I can understand your love for Pakistan and your patriotic feelings but not pride. I often ask my Indian comrades too 'What makes them proud to be an Indian ?' . Rampant poverty, corruption, malnutrition, pollution, illiteracy in the subcontinent is hardly something one should be proud of.
One usual answer given by Indians and well-rehersed Indian contestants in 'Beauty Contests' is that they are proud of 'Indian Culture'. But I really don't think that holds too much meaning in today's context and the ground scenario.
So I would like to ask a Pakistani for a change What is it that what makes u proud of Pakistan and being a Pakistani

[Malik73]

Well good question Some1.

I am proud to be Pakistani because I am conscious of the fact that so many people were brave enough to make huge sacrifices for the creation of Pakistan, for us to live in a Muslim-majority state.And I hold true to the original princiles of our founder Mohammed Ali Jinnah.I am proud to be Pakistani because of the huge diversity of all our people - Punjabi, Sindhi, Pakthoon, Balochi, Kashmiri etc each with their own cultures, languages and unique histories.

Despite contrary views I am proud of the tolerant, open and friendly nature of our people. Yes, our people have endured great hardships like poverty and illetracy etc but that makes me more proud to be Pakistani - the fact that our people don't give in. They are a hard-working and committed people who accept the huge miseries of life but still endeavour to make things better.

[KK]

being a proud Pakistani or Indian doesn't have much to do with what the ideology of a certain country stands for and these germs are not just confined to Pakistan & India only. You walk around & u may come across a Pround Tanzanian or a Proud Chillian even though these countries may not have made a dent in international arena. Being proud of one's native land has more to do with the fact that one can relate to that piece of land in an emotional manner and say yah, this is where I belong to, thats where my roots are. I could be living in the US of Grand Amrika for 20/30 yrs but can never relate to it the same affectionate manner as I'd do for my dil dil Pakistan - a damn Proud Pakistani!

[ashik]

Originally posted by KK:

I could be living in the US of Grand Amrika for 20/30 yrs but can never relate to it the same affectionate manner as I'd do for my dil dil Pakistan - a damn Proud Pakistani!

salaam yaar yehi to keh raha hun,
it is only a psychological trick to calm down our conscience: cry louder and louder that u r proud of ur country. in reality we only have a bad conscience, that our country though we know our guilts and our weaknesses just is not able to remove these. we make happiness if anybody makes atom tests and we make happiness if the same person is got down through the other within one year. the same people make happiness and the same poeple are criticising. dont u think that nobody just really interests for our PAKISTAN, but everybody cryes loud "I AM PROUD PAKISTANI".
and what about our press??? nobody pressed that zia is a dictator as he lived. nobody pressed that benazir is bad as she was on rule. nobody pressed that nawaz is bad for country as he ruled. but as soon as they were not in rule, they were bad poeple. that is what i name our braveness<<< real courage. isent it???? (ironical)

[KK]

ashik bro,
wat r u trying to say here? u have jumbled up many things in one kick. Of course, much of the blame goes to my limited english capabilities as well that I couldn't grasp a bit of ur last post