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jihadi education system in pakistan..

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    jihadi education system in pakistan..

    While Musharraf talks of giving education in IT in a country where literacy rates have decreased in last 53 yrs, this is an interesting article on how religious jihadi mindset has destroyed education in Pak. http://www.chowk.com/bin/showa.cgi?phoodbhoy_apr1500

    #2
    ZZ,
    I read that one.
    Very good article, indeed.
    Hope the people at the Paki Education ministry wake up soon!

    Comment


      #3
      It's depressing. I have always thought that we need to build more schools, and that girls need to go to school too, etc., but actually, who knows how much good that would do. The whole systems stinks.

      Comment


        #4
        Back after a long time, zara?

        ------------------
        *************************
        There is no way to happiness.
        Happiness is the way....
        *************************

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          #5
          ZZ,

          It all depends on priorities set by the government. If its priority is to develop nuclear weapons, strengthen defense, then poor country like Pakistan has no choice but to trade-of between social services vs. unproductive activities. Long, long time ago in this forum when some one asked me question what should be done to reverse the dismal picture of education and health care in Pakistan? My answer at that time was and still is “Reverse the Defense Budget with Education, healthcare and other social programs. You will see the exponent progress in these sectors with in very short period of time which in turn improve the lives of ordinary people tremendously.


          FARID

          Comment


            #6
            Actually author argued, in some other article, that expenditure on education (per child, since not many get enrolled) is not bad. Lot of money is wasted on ghost schools, ghost teachers and so on and even military govt. has been unable to crack down on that. Again in schools that exist in reality, more emphasis is on arabic and islamiat than mathematics an computers.

            actually, best students who have lot of enthusiasm of learning will come out of all odds. even in iit's in india, which have tough entrance lot of students from villages compete succesfully to enter. mathematics olympiads, often kids from very remote areas end up getting medals. so exceptional talents will survive.

            however, the education system does matter for average kids i.e. majority of them, who can easily lose attention.

            Comment


              #7
              Jihad stands above all!

              Qatl karo! Aur jab qatl karo, tou puri raat qatl karo. Phir jab qatl karo tou us kay alawa kuch mat karo. Sirf qatl karo! Aur phir puri raat qatl karo, aur dankay ki chot pay qatl karo. And be sure to turn everything into dust before dawn. Yes..yes..kon tumhay poonchay ga jab subha hogi. Allah? Battle against Allah! Qatl karo. Aur jab qatl karo, tou discrimination mat karo. Turn everything into dust before dawn. Puri raat qatl karo. Aur phis har eek ko qatl karo. Discrimination mat karo, jab qatl karo. Aafat machai hai behen chodon nay zameen pey. Aur yey zameen hai Allah taala ki.

              ------------------
              Sarfraz Khan

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                #8
                Atif looks like a model student of pakistani education system.

                Seriously speaking, i think many factors contribute to intellectual underdevelopement of subcontinent. Lack of role models is one. It is no coincidence that Pakistan produced fast bowlers bey dozen after Imran's success. When you go to European institutes, u can feel that the great scientists worked here. The work culture and curiocity to unknown is in air. There are not enough role models in subcontinent. And in India, if there is someone outstanding, he makes his own institute and gathers sycophants around. Pakistan lost a lot by not letting Prof. Salam stay. It would have been a great source of inspiration for Pakistani students that someone from remote village in Punjab makes it to the frontiers of science.

                Apart from role models, what the culture values is another question. Somehow in Brahminical culture, Brahmins were superior in theory and there was/is much emphasis on learning and education. Old system of education in Brahmisns was no differnt from madarssas and there was lot emphasis of mugging up. Still, u can manage examination in physics in India without developing any problem solving skill in many universities in India. I have always felt that the reason why India produces some good theorists and mathematicians once in a while but rarelu=y good experimentalists is this old brahminical culture in which working by hand was looked down upon. I feel Pakistan is in a different cultural trap. Jihadi mindset is one of kshattriya, warrier.. so with role models like Taimur Lang or Changes Khan u end up muilding missiles and bombs by hook or crook. But grassroots education or culture of understanding remains neglected.

                Comment


                  #9
                  So what is the answer? Should more money be put in a system that doesn't work? What should be the new model?

                  Elegancia, I have been around on and off. Maybe we're just posting in difference forums?

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                    #10
                    ZZ,

                    Providing few million Rs. for education in the budget without any viable plan for improvement will always result in ghost teachers and ghost schools. I am talking about abolition of class system, which presently exist in Pakistan. E.g. Rich can have access to English but poor have to go to either ghost or substandard schools who are lacking in not only good teachers but also basic necessities. I want that public schooling system should be improved and every child should have free access to good education. This will require billions not millions.

                    By the way author of that article has been educated in Grammar School Karachi, Only the children of Governor, Ministers, Filthy rich etc can go to that school. Person graduated from such institution criticizing education system in the country is ridiculous.

                    FARID

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ZZ wrote:
                      >> however, the education system does matter for average kids i.e. majority of them, who can easily lose attention. <<

                      In my opinion, ZZ, they all suffer at the hands of bad system. Ok, good people from remote areas excell at various stages; but still they are very rare as compared to children getting educated in cities or in good schools.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My opinion is that continued neglect of education in Pakistan is deliberate.

                        Education and critical thinking leads to questioning the system. You can't teach the student to critically check a mathematical theorem but blindly follow the society norms. As soon as scientific thinking comes in establishment is worried.

                        Not only that, they have access to information. They can read newspapers. However biased newspapers are, all facts cant be hidden from them and now the sole source of world info is not the friday sermon.

                        So, dont educate people, if u have to do it covert them into religious bigots, seems to be strategy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The author of the article lectures Politics at QAU at Islamabad. He has been in the press on more than a few occasions. He makes a few good points.

                          The problem of education in Pakistan, as ZZ in his last post suggests, is a deliberate act to keep the people backward. In rural areas, there are landowning classes that vehemently oppose building any schools (Bhutto clan is example of such people – have their education at Oxford, but won’t allow schools to be built in their villages. Mumtaz Bhutto went so far to suggest that Jirga System (feudal lord justice system) should continue).

                          Pakistan has long way to go to make education available to all its people. It requires some very fundamental changes in attitudes and an affirmation from educated classes.

                          Here are a few suggestions:

                          -All public schools be mixed sexes
                          -Sex Education at elementary level
                          -No Compulsory Religious Studies in Public Schools

                          The system of deliverance also needs a radical change, starting with hiring/training of teachers, but also teaching be made more attractive. An Army officer (with a pea size brain) makes 10 times more than an elementary school teacher. Teachers be compensated more than the equally educated Army people, since teachers make bigger difference in peoples' lives.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            NYAhamadi,

                            I agree with your suggestions regarding establishing a good public school system. But I totally disagree with your remarks regarding ZA Bhutto and his cousin. I know that you guys will never forgive him for centuries to come, as he was the person who dared to declare Qadianis as non-Muslims. But you should also remember that more than 21 years have been passed since his death. For a long period of time his talented cousin has been living a retired life. ZA Bhutto was the person who tried abolishing class system by nationalization of schools, which ultimately backfired due to ill-conceived policies created by his advisers mostly belonging to Punjab. His follower who became a very powerful general has done nothing in improving the system. Had he been sincere, he could have brought the revolution long time ago.

                            ZA Bhutto suffered more than what he did during his tenure as PM. Let his soul be rest in peace. Look for other examples, which are more, related to present situation rather than blaming a person who once upon a time was the most popular person among masses. If the government is sincere who the hell are the feudal lords to decide the fate of people in Pakistan?

                            Be rational as you always pretend to be.


                            FARID

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dear Farid, I have a lot of respect for ZA Bhutto and what he stood for. I don't give donkey's ear (or some other part) about what he believed about Ahmadis (and what anyone else may believe about Ahmadis). I think as a politician he brought many positive changes into a system that needed a quixotic leadership. I admire his efforts (and most times he was sincere) to abolish Feudal system, to institute social welfare programs, and to open communications. I also liked his foreign policies, and in my opinion, no Politician (since him) has come even closer to the potential that he had. In short, I love ZA Bhutto.

                              But it doesn’t mean that he is immune from my criticism of him or his clan about their educational policies. I also despise his nationalization efforts. They could have done a lot more than they did.

                              Now, don’t be brining Qadiani argument into everything. It makes you sound silly.

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