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Don't cry for America... they will be back sometime!

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    Don't cry for America... they will be back sometime!

    Muslims, Patriots and Pakistani's we must not cry for America...We should not feel abandoned or betrayed after so long a period of friendship. What else can you expect from the USA governments - whose policies are not determined by principles (democracy, human rights etc) but by needs (oil, Israel, regional/world hegemony etc).

    Look at Clinton's recent visit to South Asia as a continuation of its historical foreign policy priorities, NOT any great love for India (however much Indian's may be fooled by this). Just look at Clinton - he leaves Pakistan talking about the need to move to democracy and supressing terrorism, and flies into Switzerland to meet Hafez Al Assad - a blood thirsty monster, who seized power in a military coup 30 years ago, and has been as evil (if not more) as Saddam Hussein of Iraq. No talk of human rights or of a return to democracy here, and no crackdown on terrorism (Syria is actually on the State Dept's list of countries sponsoring terrorism) as well - JUST PEACE WITH ISRAEL !!

    Let me explain with more examples. In the last ten years (since 1990) the following Muslim countries have gone from being:

    a) The worst of enemies to friends.
    b) The best of friends to enemies.

    I will briefly explain some political history of each country, then some issues on which these countries displeased/pleased the USA.

    FIRSTLY - COUNTRIES WHO BECAME FRIENDS AFTER BEING THE WORST OF ENEMIES:-

    1) SYRIA - ruled since the 1960's by a heretical Shia sub-sect called the Alawi's over a population which is 85% Sunni. Up to 1990 it is a fierce enemy of the USA because of its support for terrorism and its alliance with Iran (against Iraq), and domination (and virtual annexation) of Lebanon. Also was the biggest military threat to Isreal (after Egypt made peace in 1979). ALSO HAS A TERRIBLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD - ASSAD KILLED 20,000 'ISLAMIC UPRISERS' IN 1982 IN JUST TWO DAYS WHEN THEY ROSE AGAINST HIM.

    Now great fiend of USA - WHY? Because it sent 20,000 troops to fight Iraq in 1990/91, has taken part in the Middle East 'Peace' process, and talked to Israel.

    But it still supports terrorism, is bad as Saddam, and has 40,000 troops in Lebanon etc

    2) LIBYA - ruled since the 1960's by a not very brutal socialist regime. BUT IN CONFLICT WITH THE USA TILL 1999 BECAUSE IT SUPPORTED (AND EXPORTED) TERRORISM especially against US targets, and blew up the PAN AM flight over Lockerbie in 1989.

    BUT NOW THE USA IS KNOCKING ON LIBYA'S DOOR - AFTER LIBYA HANDED OVER THE TWO SUSPECTS IN THE LOCKERBIE BOMBING. LIBYA IS STILL NOT A DEMOCRACY, STILL RULED BY GADDAFI (A MAN THE USA CONSIDERED A TERRORIST) ETC

    USA IS APPARENTLY INTERESTED IN SIGNING OIL DEALS!!

    3) IRAN - RULED BY THEOCRATS SINCE 1979, WHO (EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE) STUCK THE 'DANDA' UP AMERICA'S ASS TILL AT LEAST 1989. ACCUSED OF EXPORTING THEIR ISLAMIC REVOLUTION ABROAD, BUILDING A NUCLEAR BOMB AND PURSUING A HATE AMERICA/ISRAEL CAMPAIGN.

    NOW THE USA HAS APOLOGISED FOR STICKING ITS ORE INTO IRANIAN AFFAIRS SINCE THE 1950'S AND HAS PRAISED THE NEW 'DEMOCRATIC' GOVERNMENT OF IRAN. WHY? ITS NEEDS ACCESS TO IRANIAN OIL, AND FOR IRAN TO BE THE MAIN LAND LINK TO CENTRAL ASIA.

    BUT IRAN IS STILL SUPPORTING HEZBOLLAH, BUILDING THE BOMB AND SPENDING FRIDAYS SPITTING FURY AT ISRAEL AND THE USA.

    NOW FOR COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BECOME ENEMIES AFTER BEING FRIENDS OF THE USA:-

    1) Iraq
    2) Afghanistan
    3) Pakistan?

    Do I need to explain why??

    So don't worry friends - when Osama is handed over, Pakistan has signed the CTBT, and the Taliban have been cooled down things will change again - EVEN IF MUSHARRAF IS STILL CE OF PAKISTAN.

    ALSO, AFTER INDIA BECOMES TO BIG FOR ITS BOOTS (AND WON'T BE AMERICA'S STOOGE AGAINST CHINA), EXPECT THE USA TO CALL ON ISLAMABAD'S DOOR AGAIN TALKING ABOUT A 'VERY SPECIAL FRIENDSHIP AND ALLIANCE' (AND PROMISING JUSTICE IN KASHMIR!)

    AT THAT TIME WE SHOULD GET TOGETHER WITH CHINA AND INDIA AND PUT THREE 'DANDA'S' UP AMERICA'S ASS!!!


    #2
    Dear KMailik,

    Now give us some historical background about the last 50 years of what Pakistan has done. How it has changed its friends and foes, how it has worked for its self interest, etc.

    If you are looking for solutions for problems of Pakistan, you should better be looking within, and not outwith. USA is not Pakistanís Mama, and is not obligated to look for its well being. If they want to help Pakistan achieve some stability, Pakistanis should be grateful, and not act like cry babies. That Dundaa you are talking about belongs, first take it out of your Ass, before planning where it should go next.

    Comment


      #3
      Of course Pakistan should solve its own problems itself - and the USA should respect its sovereignty by keeping its business out. Pakistan has had a consistent foreign policy based on its religious, historical and cultural considerations - IT IS HAS PROBABLY GONE WRONG IN NOT BEING ECONOMICALLY SELFISH AS AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY HAS OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS. JUST LOOK AT ITS UNBELIEVABLE POLICY TOWRDS CUBA. FOR 41 YEARS IT HAS PURSUED AN OBSESSION BASED ON OVERTHROWING CASTRO. IT IS NOW SO DESPERATE THAT IT WON'T LET A POOR YOUNG BOY GO HOME TO ITS PARENTS - TALK ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY.

      EXPLAIN THE USA'S POLICY TOWARDS CUBA MY FRIEND AHMADI??

      IT SHOULD BE A SENSE OF PRIDE FOR ALL REAL MUSLIMS (WHO BELIVE IN MOHAMMED (PBUH) AS LAST PROPHET) THAT THE USA WITH AN ECONOMY THAT IS 9.5 TRILLION DOLLARS BIG (I.E 30% OF THE WORLD'S OUTPUT), SHOULD BE SO THREATENED BY THE SMALL MUSLIM AND NO-MUSLIM COUNTRIES LIKE CUBA, NORTH KOREA, AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN.

      Comment


        #4
        Malik Yar,

        USAís policy towards Cuba is pretty pathetic in my opinion. At one time, it might have served some purpose, but at present, keeping it closed, has achieved nothing for either the US or the Cuba (Have you noticed that how even Russia has abandoned Cuba). It is a poor small country with a myriad of problems, which it is USís obligation, as being a wealthier neighbor, to help Cuba out. In real terms, the smallest of the smallest US companies has more assets than Cuba, so the sanctions are not really to achieve any economic gains. Politically, the game is much different. US doesnít like to see a communist in its backyard. China is a different ballpark all together. There are economic as well as political considerations. Other countries, like North Korea and Afghanistan fall in separatist category.

        In any event, US does what is in its best interest. Pakistan should learn to do the same. The first thing it can do is to scrap its nuclear ambition and educate and feed its people, and promote democratic values. The wretched condition those countries that you mention are not due to US involvement, but because of their own stupid policies. Pakistan is one such country. No one asked Pakistanis to have over 3% population growth rate, no one asked it to make more bombs and build less schools, no one asked it to treat religious minorities the way they are treated, and many other things that it has done and is doing. All its own doing.

        The INS of the USA has asked that the boy be united with his father, but it has turned out become a big political issue. It is not the USA who is keeping him there, but the ďCuban AmericansĒ who do not want Elain to go back to his father. Castro is not letting this opportunity go by to through a monkey ranch into this already complex situation.

        Comment


          #5
          Not until Pakistan gives up sponsoring terrorism. The situation is so out of hand that during Clinton's visit all of security forces at the airport were disramed. I guess it was ordered by Mushiraff at the request of Uncle Sam.

          Comment


            #6
            Ahmadi Yar I agree almost totally on your observations about the failings of successive Pakistani governments, but the USA (and other external powers) are certainly not blameless for some of the problems Pakistan faces today. Examples are:-

            1) The law and order situation, which is aggravated by the gun culture which has developed since the late 1970's, BECAUSE the USA armed to the teeth the Mujhadeen, and then left Pakistan to deal with the problems - guns, refugees etc.

            2) The USA helped create the Taliban in the early 1990's, to bring to Afghanistan a strong government which could unite the whole country, and ensure unfettered American access to Central Asia. HENCE HAVING FAILED TO BRING THIS, AND THE OSAMA FACTOR - THE USA IS NOW PATCHING UP WITH IRAN!!

            3) The USA gave more support to all previous militray governments in Pakistan - Ayub, Yahya and Zia, yet conspired to overthrow elected governments i.e. ZAB.

            SO PLEASE DON'T TELL ME THAT THE USA IS NOT PARTLY TO BLAME FOR PAKISTAN'S PROBLEMS TODAY.

            All over the world the USA has pursued policies based on its econmoic interests (which is very admirable up to a point) BUT AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER COUNTRIES - THAT IS MY POINT MY FRIEND.

            AND HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT WHETHER A COUNTRY IS COMMUNIST (i.e Tito's Yugoslavia) OR FUNDEMENTALIST ISLAMIC (i.e. Saudi Arabia) OR A BLOODY DICTATORSHIP(i.e. Iraq, Syria etc)THE USA WILL BE FRIENDLY IF YOU SERVE THEIR INTERESTS.

            Only when a country defies American hegemony i.e Cuba, Iran and Vietnam does it become an enemy of the USA.INDEED THE USA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY OF CUBA'S ECONOMIC PROBLEMS BY MAINTAINING A CRIPPLING ECONOMIC EMBARGO ON CUBA FOR THE LSAT 40 YERS OR SO.

            NOTE - CUBA HAS THE HIGHEST LITECAY, BEST HEALTH AND SOCIAL WELFARE IN THE AMERICA'S AFTER THE USA AND CANADA (AND THE EUROPEAN TERRITORIES IN THE CARRIBEAN). SO WHAT SI AMERICA'S PROBLEM WITH CUBA???

            YOUR POINT ABOUT CUBA IS AN HONEST ADMISSION THAT THE USA IS WRONG - THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT HOW A DEMOCRATIC SUPERPOWER BEHAVES!!

            I am a student of American politics, and I understand the power of the Cuban-American lobby in Florida (and in Congress), BUT SURELY SMALL ETHNIC LOBBIES LIKE THESE ARE ACTUALLY GIVING THE USA A BAD NAME.

            The Cuban Lobby is hurting US interests in Cuba.

            The Jewish lobby is working against American interests in the Arab and Islamic world

            etc etc etc

            THIS IS URELY NOT THE WAY A DEMOCRACY BEHAVES...

            Comment


              #7
              why blame USA for Pakistani problems. US govts. are not there to take care of pakistani interests.

              US controls businesses and money worldwide. The foreign policy takes care that its interests are not hurt.

              If US used Pakistani govts and threw them like used condom. blame goes to Pakistani rulers who allowed it, not US.

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