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    India proves once again!

    India has proved once again how secular it is and how much right every individual is given the right to practice there believes.


    Tens of thousands of Indian Muslims held a massive protest here on Friday to condemn moves by a northern state to introduce legislation requiring official permission to construct religious buildings.

    The organisers claimed the demonstration was attended by more than 50,000 Muslims, who see the proposed law as a bid by the Uttar Pradesh state government - controlled by Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee's Hindu nationalist BJP party - to restrict their religious freedom.

    Syed Ahmed Bukhari, Deputy Imam of the Jama Masjid Delhi gave a speech to thousands of Muslims gathered for Friday prayers, before leading them on a march to the prime minister's residence.

    "The constitution grants every Indian not only religious freedom but also freedom to preach and propagate his religion," said Bukhari.

    "But this bill attempts to kill this freedom ... We demand its immediate withdrawal."

    The Imam said that any attempt to promote a right-wing Hindu nationalist agenda through "subversive measures," such as the proposed legislation, would "endanger the very unity and integrity" of India.

    All roads within a three-kilometre radius of the mosque were jammed with tens of thousands of Muslims, shouting anti-government slogans.

    Earlier in the day, prominent Muslim leaders also handed a petition to President K.R Narayanan asking him to withhold his assent to the controversial bill.

    The petition said the bill would "not only put hurdles in the constitution and extension of new religious places of worship and centres of education, but would also throttle religious institutions as well

    #2
    I am so happy that Muslim fundamentalists in India have finally recognised that we have a secular constitution. After so many years of playing around with the constitution and breaking it every time, now they have realised that there is a constitution. Good for India....now maybe we will undo all the wrongs committed by Mr. Bukhari by breaking all constitution norms in the past and humiliating all proud Indians. He should be humiliated and shown his place --- the ******* --- how dare he even talks about our constitution. Look at the nerve of the shameless guy and he even dares talk about the unity and integrity of the nation. Is he even proud to be an Indian --- a country which gave him unnecessary importance and had to bear all his tantrums at OUR CONSTITUTION'S cost !!!
    As for you Gulsher, for Gods sake be proud of your Nation's Islamic constitution. I've said this before also -- that secularism is what we've chosen on our own....you have chosen to be an Islamic state -- BE PROUD of it. Don't have a complex that you're not a secular nation. Secularism DOES NOT have to be a virtue. I think thats the reason why you guys hate the fact that we're secular. You can't fool all the people all the time -- and the fact that countries all around the world recognise India as the world's largest democracy and a secular republic is important enough for us (doesn't make a difference even if they dont). If one country Pakistan (who has always been hostile to us) doesn't think so -- no big deal !!

    [This message has been edited by BombayKid (edited March 04, 2000).]

    Comment


      #3
      I hope Muslims in Pakistan support Muslim brothers in India and ask for a bill for freedom of preaching your religion in Pakland. I am coming there to preach Anandmarg.

      Comment


        #4
        The Imam (Syed Ahmed Bukhari, Deputy Imam of the Jama Masjid Delhi) should be condemned for misleading the people, he should be thrown out of India, he is a traitor a big B*******. Why the hell is he not telling the Pakistani sponsored Militants to stop destroying Mosques, rape n killing the innocent people in J&K. Till date he has not even criticized Pakistan for their barbaric act on the innocent people of J&K. Why is he not using his influence as a leader of that community to stop the barbaric act of militants on the innocent hindus? Why is he not talking of jihad against the Pakistanis? First prove your loyalty against the country then think of anything else.

        The government is right in stoping the hipocritic religion building mosques. More mosques means more noise pollution and traffic jams.

        Too much has been done by the previous governments to win the minority voters. I appreciate the step taken by BJP goverment. I will also appreciate if a common civil code is forced on the muslims.

        Comment


          #5
          PBDHH wrote:-

          The government is right in stoping the hipocritic religion building mosques. More mosques means more noise pollution and traffic jams.

          Well you just proved how much you are tolerant are of other religeons, you always have questioned the creation of Pakistan, your attitiude just proved why.

          And as for Mujahideen, we arent the ones raping women and destroying mosques in KAshmir my dear, that just proves how ignorant you are. You must have mistaknened us for Indian Army personals!

          Comment


            #6
            legislation requiring official permission to construct religious buildings.

            Please note that it is a legislation on construction of religous buildings and not mosques only. Lately religion is being used as a scapegoat for all unconstitutional activities, including encroaching the land. If you don't have a house best thing is to make a temple or a mosque or a madrasaa and rest assured nobody can move you from there. This has to change somehow. I myself has faced this problem on an individual level. We have been alloted a house in a beautiful location in New Delhi with a beautiful park in front. By the time we occupy that house a makeshift structure was built there in one night itself and a madrssa started with two or three kids coming there. Soon they grabbed the whole park and started building pukka structures. Even the court directed the police to remove that structure in a public interest litigation filed by the Residents Assocn. but to no avail. Now even if we want to sell that house it is simply not possible because of that. Even the Muslims are not buying it. In fact such kind of legislation shoud be introduced in all India and also the Uniform Civil Code. If Muslims wants separate laws for them they can chose to migrate to our Islamic neighbour who is proud of being so and is having a Jehad in the name of religion. I think he should not have any problem in accepting muslims from India who are not happy with India.

            Comment


              #7
              CGK wrote,

              **** Well you just proved how much you are tolerant of other religeons, you always have questioned the creation of Pakistan, your attitiude just proved why.****

              We are tolerant where we have to be but not at the expense of hypocisy, no need for you to tell us where we stand.

              **** And as for Mujahideen, we arent the ones raping women and destroying mosques in KAshmir my dear, that just proves how ignorant you are. You must have mistakened us for Indian Army personals! ****

              You are too ignorant of the facts happening in J&K, go back to school and ask your teacher who is raping and destroying mosques in J&K. Today what is happening in J&K, Pakistan and its ISI agents are wholly responsible for it. It is the ISI militants who are wearing the army uniforms to rape and destroy mosques inorder to create bad name for India. Your evil designs will not work against the Indians we are smart and we know how to tackle your evil designs.

              Comment


                #8
                Good Gulsher, you have manage to get these so called secularists show their true colours. They have, one and all, reminded us again what a great democratic country India is. Democracy in India means agree with my views or else. If anyone has doubts read the postings of these great democrats above.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ehsan:
                  Good Gulsher, you have manage to get these so called secularists show their true colours. They have, one and all, reminded us again what a great democratic country India is. Democracy in India means agree with my views or else. If anyone has doubts read the postings of these great democrats above.
                  Democracy means a system of governemnt by the whole population, without any discrimination on the basis of religion, caste or creed, through elected representatives. Its a system in which policy is decided centrally and is binding on all members. So what confuses you in our above posts. How about pointing out the same thing when our democratic government adapted pro-muslim policies, like separate laws for muslims, Article 370, etc. which are still being followed just to please your religion. So when you do it it is your right but when we want to make it uniform we are flauting democracy. Tilted view, kyon.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Capt. Sheer Khan, this is just one more
                    example, why our ancestors gave their blood
                    and sweat to build a seperate, Islamic nation
                    for themselves and their future generations.
                    It was because of these intolerant, close-
                    minded, oppressive Hindu ba*****s, who made
                    practicing Islam in their midst, akin to a
                    subversive act, for which a Muslim would pay
                    a high price in retribution from them.

                    This latest act of religious persecution,
                    comes as no surprise, since Hindus have been
                    converting over to Islam and Christianity in
                    droves and many religious and social (self-
                    appointed) architects in India have been scared
                    sh**-less, about losing their future genera-
                    tions to these two religions.

                    This is a pathetic act of desperation, and it
                    too, will fail. As the world shrinks, people
                    will no longer be chained to a soul-less
                    pagan cult like Hinduism. The spirit of the
                    Indians yearns to be free; free of the opp-
                    ressive and stifling dogma of their cult and
                    that is whats scaring the pundits of the BJP.

                    They cannot control the demand, so they are
                    haphazardly trying to control the supply of
                    any true religion, hence this unbelievably
                    biased and medieval-in-nature bill, that
                    restricts building of religious structures,
                    and applies ONLY, to the minority religions.


                    If the Hindus were confidant of their old
                    cult, they wouldn't be threatened by Islam
                    but as we can see, they are quaking in their
                    chappals over there, resorting to such
                    extreme acts: Denying the basic civil rights
                    of minorities to be free to practice their
                    religion.

                    No one can stop Islam. The pundits and their
                    BJP party are fighting a losing battle. As I
                    see it, this is precisely the condition laid
                    out in Soora'e Noor, where Jihad becomes man-
                    datory for all Muslims, when their bretherens
                    are put under religious persecution. If this
                    thing goes through, there will be Hell to pay
                    and it will all come out of the Hindu hide.

                    These SOBs are asking for it now.


                    Thakur


                    [This message has been edited by Thakur (edited March 06, 2000).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Thakur:
                      Capt. Sheer Khan, this is just one more
                      example, why our ancestors gave their blood
                      and sweat to build a seperate, Islamic nation
                      for themselves and their future generations.
                      It was because of these intolerant, close-
                      minded, oppressive Hindu ba*****s, who made
                      practicing Islam in their midst, akin to a
                      subversive act, for which a Muslim would pay
                      a high price in retribution from them.


                      Why does your Islamic nation then turned into two Islamic nations? Why did so many of your Islamic brothers chose to stay back in India rather than going with tolerant Islamist of that time? Why did they chose to pay such high price when they had such a good option in front of them? Please try to put some light on these points.

                      They cannot control the demand, so they are haphazardly trying to control the supply of any true religion, hence this unbelievably
                      biased and medieval-in-nature bill, that
                      restricts building of religious structures,
                      and applies ONLY, to the minority religions.


                      Yes they cannot control the demand, but not of religion but for free land for purposes of preaching hatred/for encroachment of land/for maintaining the aesthetic beauty/surroundings/etc. What makes you think it is for minorities only. Daari Main Tinka, is it.


                      If the Hindus were confidant of their old
                      cult, they wouldn't be threatened by Islam
                      but as we can see, they are quaking in their
                      chappals over there, resorting to such
                      extreme acts: Denying the basic civil rights
                      of minorities to be free to practice their
                      religion.


                      Hindus were confident that is precisely the reason why they let the Muslim brothers stay back in what you brand as Hindu land, instead muslims were not confident and so they chose for a separate land. Add the muslims of Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and you will come to a figure more than the hindu population of India, you could easily have overtook India religiously and there was no need of a separate nation. The very reason you parted way from us proves your insecurity. You should understand that it is all a big politics and is not in the interest of any religion to fight for supremacy of their religion. Religion is a state of mind and is only a question of faith.

                      Regarding civil rights, muslim have separate code of conduct in our law. In fact a uniform civil code should be applied when it is considered one nation, but our leaders chose to give a separate law of land for muslims, still so much of resentment. Give me an example from any other country in the world which is so flexible.


                      No one can stop Islam.

                      Who wants to stop it. Again sense of insecurity. In fact you wanted to stop its spread by having a separate nation of muslims and by not intermingling with Hindus. Again what does it prove, who was not confident of themselves.




                      [This message has been edited by dhir (edited March 06, 2000).]

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Thakur,

                        so.... are you for or against religious tolerance?

                        and all those funny arguments of yours about "hindu cult" are easily applicable to islam, i dont want to elaborate, hurting people's religious sentiments isnt my game.
                        Simple ain't easy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dhir:
                          Can you please try to remain coherant in one
                          post ?. In one para you are for this anti-
                          Islamic bill because according to you, they
                          are centers of "preaching hatred", and then
                          in the last para, you claim "who wants to
                          stop [Islam] ?".

                          Let me see, that would be you.

                          As for why certain Muslims stayed behined, it
                          is again ludicrious to insinuate that the ones
                          who stayed behined, chose to stay in India.
                          Quaid-e-Azam and the Muslim League, had to
                          fight tooth and nail, for each and every inch
                          of what is Pakistan today. Certain parts like
                          Gurdaspur and Kashmir etc, that were alloted
                          to Pakistan, were taken back by the wily Hindus
                          just when things were cahotic.

                          Isn't it typical, for beysharam loog's like
                          yourself to come in now and suggest some
                          bizzare and twisted rationale for things.
                          If Sub-Continent Muslims had to choose, they
                          would ALL have chosen to be in Pakistan. But
                          since the assignment of territories was done
                          on the basis of Muslim density, not all of
                          them could enjoy a seperate homeland. It is
                          not easy to leave behined your ancestoral
                          homes and property, in the hands of Hindus.
                          Not all Muslims could do it. Their hands were
                          tied, by the landgrubbing Hindus. Your Gandhi
                          died mutterring 'aik desh'.

                          What do you think, the Muslim minority in
                          India would do, if a referrendum was put to
                          them today, as to which country they want to
                          be a part of, you think ?. You already know
                          the answer to this, which is why you all get
                          loose motions, when you are asked to hold
                          such an election in Kashmir. Right chanda ?.


                          Queer:
                          Mujanab Queer, I don't give a flying rats a**
                          about idol-worshippers. My concern is first
                          and foremost, the Muslims, who have been sub-
                          jected to horrendous oppression, to observe
                          their faith. It is their plight which concerns
                          me. As for the cult following hindus, they
                          can observe their faith without any recrimi-
                          nations from any Muslim, provided...that they
                          stop their oppressive agenda and are no longer
                          posing a threat to us and our way of life.

                          As for your taking umbrage at my calling the
                          Hindu cult, a cult...whats there to argue
                          about ?. It is a pagan cult. Period. Now you
                          can jump up and down, point fingers at Islam,
                          the most versatile, innovative, complete
                          religion ever, but thats not going to change
                          the fact. Hinduism is a religion, that encou-
                          rages caste system and a thousand more of
                          such differences and divisions, based upon
                          mythology. It crushes the human spirit and
                          matches all criteria for cults.

                          But I respect your right to be a cult-follower.
                          All you Hale-Bopp Cometiers are welcome to
                          see the world as you wish. Just leave us in
                          peace and don't get in our way...


                          Thakur

                          Comment


                            #14
                            is this law applicable only to mosques and not to temples? in that case it can be constitutionally challenged.

                            Comment


                              #15

                              Thakur Sa'ab,

                              for one, i dont understand how you can label the bill as "anti-islamic". as far as my squash tells me, it's equally applicable to all religions - the way it should be in a secular country. The bill, if anything, should be qualified as "anti-religious" or "communist" or something secular-but-insulting.

                              >As for your taking umbrage at my calling the
                              Hindu cult, a cult...whats there to argue
                              about ?. It is a pagan cult. Period. <

                              Well... everyone's entitled to his views, if you ask me, everyone who believes in the idiocy called God is a coward who needs an excuse to act like a kid. but that's just my view...

                              >Now you can jump up and down, point fingers at Islam, the most versatile, innovative, complete religion ever<

                              sorry to dissapoint you, but i'm in feeling rather noble tonite... and in any case, whatever i say, you arent gonna get much pissed of, given that you already are pretty much hitting the rocks.. plus i dont wanna dissapoint my muslim friends just for the fun of getting you angry.

                              >Hinduism is a religion, that encou-
                              rages caste system and a thousand more of
                              such differences and divisions, based upon
                              mythology<

                              you are exaggerating a bit there, that's understandable given your attitude... well ok, in any case did islam really stop divisions and sects? btw, pretty ironic that a sect hater like you chose a nick "thakur". funny too!

                              >Just leave us in peace and don't get in our way...<

                              us?
                              Simple ain't easy.

                              Comment

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