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    C.E of pak...

    I wonder what its like to be the chief executive of pkaistan....
    Knowing that every decision you would take would effect 140 million ppl and so many to come in future...
    Knowing there are so many things wrong , and you are ultimately responsible to correct it all....
    It must be very very humbling....and some one who does not have the capacity to be humble , would invariably plunge in denial and megalomania...
    I wonder what path our current , self appointed CE is taking...

    #2
    May I suggest you to follow the development, not that I’m assuming that you aren’t.

    As for his decisions will effect every Pakistani now and the future generations, well whoever governs the country will make decisions that’ll effect us and the coming generations, there is nothing new in that. Have you ever heard the Gen. talk, I for one am so glad that he is not ‘humble’, he doesn’t say all problems including Kashmir, that he is man enough to say Kashmir or nothing, has not been to hajj in Washington yet, is touching problems that are critical for ordinary ppl, and is working on long term solutions then quickies.

    Let me ask you one question, are you against this ‘new’ form of government, because it’s not democratically elected or because it’s causing us more problems then we’ve had before? Or because you don’t want to explain to ppl why there is military rule in Pak, and why ppl have accepted it without any protest? What would you have done? Put your self in an ordinary Pakistani mazdoor’s place and tell me that you want democracy or other fancy stuff, more then roti for your kids.

    Comment


      #3
      Ever imagined, why is that almost all the muslim countries, like Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, accept the military rule as a common phenomenon and a routine matter and don't raise a brow about.

      Of course your CE is not humble, and it is only in Pakistan that you feel proud for not being humble. Being humble is similar to saying being humane. Of course CE has not yet gone for a Haj to U.S. that is more because the US has declined to accept him as it is and is not ready to legitimize his taking over. If he was so concerned about people he should have resigned from the army and fought elections like a common man with his new ideas so that he gets elected with a mandate and not because he has gun (humble, no way).

      You know the saying absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wait and see, this is what is going to happen soon in Pak. GOOD LUCK.

      Comment


        #4
        >>Of course your CE is not humble, and it is only in Pakistan that you feel proud for not being humble. Being humble is similar to saying being humane.<<
        Hey ever thought of telling this to your very humble minister? I guess my understanding of being humble differs from yours, and again yours differs from your BJP head. But then again no one said that words couldn’t have different meanings to different ppl.

        >>Of course CE has not yet gone for a Haj to U.S. that is more because the US has declined to accept him as it is and is not ready to legitimize his taking over. <<
        Hmmm…. maybe or maybe not, let’s just wait and see, shall we I’m talking about the haj part.

        >>If he was so concerned about people he should have resigned from the army and fought elections like a common man with his new ideas so that he gets elected with a mandate and not because he has gun (humble, no way).<<
        May I ask you a very simple question, aap ko hamara itna dard kioN hai? Not that you shouldn’t worry, or shouldn’t care about us, I mean after all we’re ‘paRosi’ na.

        >>You know the saying absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wait and see, this is what is going to happen soon in Pak. GOOD LUCK.<<
        Thanks a mill for your best wishes – Good Luck to you too

        Comment


          #5
          Your CE doesn't talk homogeneously. The several contradictins in his own statements prove that Musharraf is not a man who can be trusted (although the example I am giving is from India's point of view, it may hold true for many other policies that Musharaff is going to adopt).:-

          In his interview to The Hindu, Gen. Musharraf has asked the Indian govt. To trust him. The rest of his interview makes it clear that India should not. Acc. to him Pakistan is absolutely against all forms of terrorism. Its ISI had nothing to do with hijacking or with any other attacks on civilians and the state in India; the Harkat ul Mujahideen is not a terrorist organisation; Pakistan has nothing to do with violence in Kashmir - it is Kashmiris sho are fighting for their freedom. Even Kargil was not between Pakistan and India, but Mujahideen and India….then he goes on to say "Now if the Indians are meaning that (atrocities) will continue and we should pay absolutely no part in…ensuring that there is no infiltration….This is being very unrealistic.

          Then Musharraf, speaking as head of army says he is for peace. But he was against the Sharif-Vajpayee meeting, he was against Sharif-Clinton agreement on disengagement in Kargil.

          Musharaff wants a change fro the Simla accord. In short, he wants the Simla accord to be scrapped. He wants talks to start with a frank admission by India that the future status of Kashmir is in dispute. Does he realise what scrapping the Simla accord would mean? It would lead us straight back to the instrument of accession. That instrument places the whole of J&K (including POK) squarely in India. Pakistan can claim that this is subject to plebiscite. But plebiscite would have to to be held in the whol of Kashmir under the UNCIP resolution of August 28, 1948 and April 12, 1949, bot of which Pakistan accepted, it would have to vacate the whole of POK and allow an Indian presence in it before the plebiscite can be held.

          If a plebiscite is the answer, should it not be three way choice - the third being independence? In his interview, your CE does not mention this possibility even once.

          Comment


            #6
            If Nova gets upset cuz we’re ruining his thread; you take the blame ok.

            Now back to your reply…

            >>Your CE doesn't talk homogeneously. The several contradictins in his own statements prove that Musharraf is not a man who can be trusted (although the example I am giving is from India's point of view, it may hold true for many other policies that Musharaff is going to adopt).:- <<
            Nice that you put it this way, otherwise I would have said it. And none who enters politics can be trusted 100%, right.

            >>In his interview to The Hindu, Gen. Musharraf has asked the Indian govt. To trust him. The rest of his interview makes it clear that India should not.<<
            As I didn’t read that interview I’ll not comment on it, both nation can’t trust eachother it’ll take us decades if not centuries to build a strong bond of trust.

            >> Acc. to him Pakistan is absolutely against all forms of terrorism.<<
            Pakistan is against all sort of terrorism, just like India is!

            >>Its ISI had nothing to do with hijacking<<
            ISI had nothing to do with that; didn’t you listen to Clinton’s speech? Nah seriously, it’s just your word against Pakistan’s till date no solid proves has been provided, at the same time India does have a history of hijacking it’s own planes and blame Pak.

            >> or with any other attacks on civilians and the state in India; <<
            Again like Indian agencies no Pak agency is involved in civilian killing anywhere in India.

            >>the Harkat ul Mujahideen is not a terrorist organisation;<<
            They are freedom fighters; they are extreme in their methods, which seems to be the only way to world leaders ears.

            >>Pakistan has nothing to do with violence in Kashmir <<
            So true!

            >> it is Kashmiris sho are fighting for their freedom.<<
            Along with mujahedeen from all over the world.

            >>Even Kargil was not between Pakistan and India, but Mujahideen and India<<
            Ok here he lied, we were involved.

            >>….then he goes on to say "Now if the Indians are meaning that (atrocities) will continue and we should pay absolutely no part in…ensuring that there is no infiltration….This is being very unrealistic. <<
            Makes sense, doesn’t it?

            >>Then Musharraf, speaking as head of army says he is for peace.<<
            You don’t have to be pro-war or pro mass destruction to be in armed forces, at least not in Pakistan.

            >>But he was against the Sharif-Vajpayee meeting, he was against Sharif-Clinton agreement on disengagement in Kargil. <<
            Both cases are of zameer faroshi. And not many Pakistani accepted that anyway.

            >>Musharaff wants a change fro the Simla accord. In short, he wants the Simla accord to be scrapped<<
            None respects it anyway; it’s only used to ’remind’ eachother that we have an agreement after they’ve broken promises.

            >>He wants talks to start with a frank admission by India that the future status of Kashmir is in dispute.<<
            Aha..
            >>Does he realise what scrapping the Simla accord would mean? <<
            Nothing, it means nothing as none of then respects it anyway.

            >>If a plebiscite is the answer, should it not be three way choice - the third being independence? In his interview, your CE does not mention this possibility even once.<<
            Ahem and how many times did your democratically elected leader even accept that there is a problem in Kashmir, which needs to be solved, Pak or no Pak?

            Comment


              #7
              From what Sabah has said: I agree that our leaders do not accept that there is a problem of Kashmir, that is because the problem is Pakistan and not the Kashmir. Now on to the subject:

              As I mentioned Musharraf did not uttered a single word for independence of Kashmir. From this one must conclude that Musharraf's purpose in urging talks that begin with a tabula rasa is to carve up Kashmir between Pakistan and India by mutual consent. It cannot, however, be on the basis of LoC, because had that been acceptable, the entire dispute would have been over long ago.

              Let us just suppose an agreement were reached that gave independence to the valley, or a three-way plebiscite after a cooling off period of several years - who will guarantee peace afte the agreement is reached? The answer can of course be found in the famous Musharraf tapes of May 1999.

              So why Musharraf is so keen to address India and ask for a new dialogue on Kashmir ONLY? One reason could be propaganda value of his statements in OECD countries - as was evident from his visits to only these countries.

              Another reason, which to my opinion sounds perfectly logical and reasonable from his point of view, might be his growing awareness that Pakistan is on the brink of failure, its economy is in shambles. In 97, 71% of revenue was absorbed by interest payments and debt. The military budget, amount to 36% of revenue. That is pushing up the national debt and share of debt servicing in annual budget still further. Civil society is being torn apart by proliferation of private Islamic militias. But this too is a product of state's pre-occupation with Kashmir, India and its own militarisation.

              The gap left in public education has been filled by elite private schools and madrasas and deen-i-madaris, which teach little other than Quran. Soon 90% of revenues will be consumed in debt servicing and with 400,000 students in islamic schools, fundamentalism can only grow and it is natural that large number of these students will end up in army and Islamise it further. The only way out for Musharraf is to cut back military spending drastically. But to do that, he must first get a solution in Kashmir that the military can regard as a victory and a vindication of Pakistan's Islamic raison d'etre.

              Comment


                #8
                Sabah ,
                Very well done....
                This dhir guy should know what he is up against....
                Remember the joke about that guy , who claimed a horse has five legs...
                Plus what right do these ppl have to come teach us reality..We will continue to see things the way we wannna see them ....
                Eat your heart out Mr Dhir.... ( I am sure you are also trying to teach calculus to your parrot...)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dhir,
                  Atleast we are friends with friends. I mean we didnt take aid from the US and supported USSR in the cold war.

                  these are the words of President John F Kennedy; when India showed it full support towards USSR in some world famous icnidence. That they get wheat from us and support USSR. ( USA sent India with a wheat supply because if a shortage).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Rani General Pervaiz never denied the fact that Pakistan Army was not behind the Kargil war, he denied that Pakistan Army never infiltrated beyond the LOC. The Jawaans who infiltrated were when Indian Army attacked our chokies. They provided us ( the different tanzeems) with cover by artillery fire so we could infilterate while Indias attention was diverted. We were not under the orders of PAk Army. But we depended heavily on info provided with our Jawaans. We were provided moral support and physical support by them. But not a single Pakistan Army Jawaan was with us when we crossed the LOC.

                    Insha Allah see what is going to happen this summers.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hawaldar Gulgeedar Khan, you are diverting from the topic. The topic under discussion is your CE, his policies, the dilemma he face, and so on. (and not Kashmir in particular), leave your energy for some other discussion.

                      Regarding your mail, do you recall when you people (under the disguise of Mujahideens)were fighting and then ran away, Indian forces handed over a lot of dead bodies belonging to Pakistan army, with documentary proofs. i.d. cards, letters, etc. REMEMBER. Also recall that they were later awarded gallantry awards by your banana country. REMEMBER. Can you clarify whether you were having physical support or they were supporting you physically from behind to save their skin in case of defeat (which was bound to happen), so that you don't fall down and run away.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Dear Gul, I am not aware of this support of wheat from US. If this is the case, may be US have some ulterior motives, otherwise why would a nation who knows very well that we don't support them, give us aid. Think about it. Can you elaborate on your message, ya bus hawa main hi fainkte ho.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          wow! I am really first of all impressed your name changing talent. Jo kuch kaho janaab Kargil main tumharay bhayee is hee geedar kay agay rotay thay "jaanay do, humain jaanay do"


                          And haha! as far as the ID cards are concrened haha! How many do you need, I will provide you with Indian IDs, jitni chahiye, think with your head Dhir, haha! tell me why would anyone carry there ID to a war? Haha! At one point our Foreign minister is saying that we are not at all involved in the war we are just providing support and on the other hand haha! would we send our troops with IDs to your country, this is just too funny! As far as our Jawaans are concerned that is true that those Jawaan and Capt Kernel Sher Khan Shaheed died in Indian territory but the were on a survellance mission and were watching Indian Jawaan movement. After a massive attack was launched by the Indian Army and there Chokki was under constant shelling for three days, when this attack was repelled the the HQ sent reinforcments and more jawaans while Kernel Sher Khan Shaheed (nishan e Haidar) and hi braves jawaan, I dont remember the exact number right now, but they wiped out half of an Indian Brigade attack. HAndful of men from a single company repelled a brigade attack, they knew they were heading towards death but they didnt care, they had no conacts with there Brigade Head quarters. In brief my friend once again India till this day hasnt been able to prove that Pak Army refulars infilterated and violated the line of control.

                          And as far as the Wheat issue is concerned, my friend. Remember the JAckie KEnnedy visit, this happened right before that, when USA and USSR were looking for allies. Read your History

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Oh my god! I am up against an army jawan, with all the intelligence of ISI and ready to leak it at the drop of a hat. Eat your Khyali Pulao every day but dont distribute it to others we don't want it. Regarding proofs, noboday can prove anything 100% in a war
                            You said
                            Jo kuch kaho janaab Kargil main tumharay bhayee is hee geedar kay agay rotay thay "jaanay do, humain jaanay do"

                            Can you recall who went in the end. Action speaks louder than words. Of course louder than HA HA HA.

                            Then you added
                            And as far as the Wheat issue is concerned, my friend. Remember the JAckie KEnnedy visit, this happened right before that, when USA and USSR were looking for allies. Read your History

                            I remember it, why do you think he visited and gave us wheat when we were such enemies, this is because he wanted us to be on their side, and leave Russia, but that didn't happen. By the way on that point you were one time good friend of US always supported them what has happend now.. U-Turn.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              My friend we returned but for two months as we sent 2000 Indian to there next reincarnations. Leh road was right under us and your supply truck used to drive without there head lights off so we cant see them and start shelling! You dared crossed the loC once and we shot two of your planes and gun ship helicopter. And what did your guys do, shot down a survellance plane. Real signs of brave nation, do you agree Dhir Saheb?

                              Comment

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