Why only Kashmir?

[realpaki]

Last over 50 years Pakistan insisting about self determination in Kashmir even though Kashmir is not a part of Pakistan neglrcting her own people. Pakistan went in to war with India, terrarist activities, higacking etc.etc.etc. Reason given to the world is that Kashmir has Muslim majority and they want justice.

I can buy this argument with reservations. I do not ubderstand one thing which is Pakistan is willing to involve in to nuclear war with India on KaSHMIR issue, then why same Pakistan kept quite during police action by India in Junagad and Hyderabad?
Why these muslim brothers did not go to help them? How islamic is this to help one all the way and neglect others?

Is Pakistan really helping Kashmiri's or destroying them? What kind of help Pakistan gave to so called Azad Kashmir to develop this part of the world? What is the cost of all this to Pakistani people? If suppose Entire Kashmir becomes independent country, who that's going to help Pakistan?

[Mr Fraudia]

location location location
the old marketing philosophy could be used here as well.

How exactly can you support the whole hyderabad deal when its umm in the center of india. ya know the whole logistics and stuff wont work.

Plus I thought that muslims were minority there, so had their been any sort of consensus, it probably would have fallen towards india anyways. I guess kashmir is the exact opposite of that.

Not being a history buff, I am not aware of the details. I thought that the hindu ruler of Kashmir decided to join with India against the wishes of the population which was majority muslim. Hyderabad on the other hand had muslim rulers who had decided to stay independent but the general population had a majority of hindus. Not sure if its true or not.

[realpaki]

You are right,

Location,Location and Location

Ignorent people, lots of water supply,easy to to push drugs and arms to feed native Pakistanies, Where you can find spot like that?

[kamaqazi]

Man O man, Do you have any idea what you are talking about. Let's be logical. Infact you are negating your own point. Let me give you a little bit of history insight. Hyderabad was ruled by a muslim ruler but had a hindu majority. Same thing goes for junagarh. Rulers of both the states opted to be a part of Pakistan, however India used the excuse that since majority population of of these states are not Muslims, so they have no right to be a part of Pakistan. Wont it be fair to use the same token for Kashmir.
However if you dont think that this is a valid point, than being an educated modern person you should atleast stand for the self determination of a human being. Even Indian first Prime Minister Nehru agreed with the self determination theory for Kashmiris and
agreed to have a plebecite within a reasonable time frame under United Nations supervision (though later indians turned away from this agreement as usual). Every society has a right of self determination. Look at Canada. Last year they had a vote to decide the fate of a Canadian fedration. French speaking Canadians are asking for a seperate home for a long time. Canadian govt did'nt start genocide to deal with this matter. Infact they choose for the democratic way and let the people decide what they want.
I agree that right now Pakistan is not ruled by a democratic government. But that does'nt mean that Kashmiris should not be given a chance to decide their fate.Two wrongs never make a right.
And please look in some geographic book before making a claim that river heads of all the five pakistani rivers are in Kashmir. And do you know that Pakistan and India have already a treaty for the distribution of river water among each other.

[Reagan]

kamaqazi,

Why not apply the same principle to the separatist movements in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Indonesia ? I have never heard of any Pakistani supporting self rule for Shia minorities in Afgianistan.

[kamaqazi]

Reagan,
I have nothing against people asking for self dtermination in any part of the world. Infact I think that Pakistan was at a mistake when we did'nt listen the voices of Bangali people during 1970-71. That could have saved so many precious lives.
But keep one thing in mind that there has to be a reasonable cuase to opt for such a vote. A country shouldnt go for such an extreme measure just because a small group want independence. In case of Kashmir there is a history of more than 50 years of non stop struggle. There is a United Nations resolution to back up this claim.
And about your question of Afghani Shias. Brother why do you want to distinguish between Muslims. We are lucky enough to have
some education, we should not label Muslims as Shias or Sunnis or anything else for that matter like Mullahs. I think whole Afghanistan needs reforms and liberty, not only Afghani 'Shias'.

[Reagan]

kamaqazi,

Why should you distinguish between any religious groups ? If you as a muslim can live in USA (cristian nation), why can't Kashmiri muslims do the same in India ?

The problems in India are largely rooted in the economics in the country NOT religious differences.

Liberty in Islamic countries ?? Wait for another 150 years, that is if they haven't been bombed out by USA.

[realpaki]

Basically all kashmiris and pakis are hindus.
How can you divide nation because some body is converting in to another religion? In that case we must make diff. nations for Shias,Sunnis,Ahmedies,etc,etc,etc.

Nation should not be based on religion but life style,culture,heritage etc. Pakis do not have anything of that. Basic mistale is of creating Pakistan and India is paying price for it.Converts are always unmanageble and that is what happining in Pakistan. Even after 50 years they are not settled politically,economically,socially, you name it.

You guyes are constantly mentioning Mr. Nehru said this, Mr.Gandhi said that tell me what people of India Said? Was there a national referendum? why not?

You are giving example of Canada, first off all french and english are two diff. groups, they are not converts like pakis. Indians and pakis are the same people with same history and heritage. Our roots are the same.

Only the thing we are victims of british divide and rule policy nothing else. We should try to correct that major mistake firstly and secondly try to come back to our original roots and show the world that we can make corrections

[kamaqazi]

Mr realPaki:
Now I am absolutely sure that you are not a Pakistani. Pakisatani's can and do diffrentiate between teasing and a general remark. You definately need some good schooling.
Mr Reagan when I talk about self determination, it does'nt mean self detrmination for muslims living under any religion. It means self determination for everyone. I gave the example of Banladesh, as well of Canada. The question is that if a large population ( keep in mind that it has to be a large group) does not want to live under a certain rule than it should have a right of choosing their own future. As I described earlier that in case of Kashmir there is a UN resolution which endorses the right of self detrmination of Kashmiri people. That along with their constant struggle for last 50 years is enough to tell any logical person that majority of kashmiris donot want to be a part of India. Reasons can be different, ranging from religious differences to economic plight. But if you look at the history no struggle whether armed or political can survive for a long period in any region without the endorsement of the people of the region. Be it Bangladesh, Palestine, Nothern Ireland, Cuba, Veitnam or Kashmir. Foreign insurgency can start a rift but without the popular demand such movements die over the period of time. So my dear friends, lets be realistic. Kashmir is a real issue. And the only way to deal with it is to ask Kashmiries that what they want.

[Reagan]

Kam,

How come none of the other islamic countries are supporting your cause ?? You don't seem to have an opinion on Kurds in Turkey and Iraq, or Shias in Afghanistan ??? How come Pakistan does not give any moral support to them ?

Just get real-India will not give up Kashmir under any circumstances, and given the economic state http://www.msnbc.com/news/369968.asp?0m=N335 of Pakistan, it can't afford to go to war with India.

[This message has been edited by Reagan (edited February 15, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Reagan (edited February 15, 2000).]

[kamaqazi]

Reagan;
Who says that one should stop trying if the going gets tough. How will you describe a person who backs out from truth just because it is hard to achieve. No sir I am not one of those. I dont know one thing that why it is hard for you to understand that I am for self determination for everyone. But there has to be a just cause and proof that majority wants it. In Afghanistan Shias are not fighting to have their own homeland. The fight is going on between the two factions to gain control of the whole of Afghanistan. Personnaly speaking I am against all kinds of fundamentalism, so I am against both sides. As far as Kurds go, if majority of them wants independence, than so be it. However, I dont know that why you are bringing Pakistani Govt in this issue. The question to ask is that what is right and what is wrong.
Supporting Kashmiris demand for self determination is the right thing to do and that's what I support.And that's what every freedom loving person should do. But when it comes to killing innocent people for this cause than I am against it. Armed struggle for freedom against the oppressor army, I am all for it, but killing innocent bystanders from any faith, I am totally against it.
I hope that I have made myself clear.

[realpaki]

Who gave right to interfere in internal matter of India? Kashmir is one of the provience of India. Kashmiris elect their member of parliment. These elected members will look after their voters. It is none of your business. If you are thinking that you are doing this just because you are muslim then first determine who is real muslim?
Who is real authority on Quran?

You guyes has nothing to do for last 50 years but abuse India and Indians. You guyes are so shameless that everyone of you are just LOOTING your own country. In last 50 years you couldn't established democracy.

Your so called Chief Executive who is thinking about Pakistan is preparing to come to States as a refuge. His brother and son, are already here in states. I do not know whether they red this BB.

You are most un islamic people shouting the name of islam. Your country is a Mecca for drug trafficking, terriorism, arms trade. You have no indiginous technology. Every thing is borrowed.

For your own benefit stop thinking about India and think about your self. Try to make Pakistan as a nation where human lives not animals

[mundyaa]

by ur statement we are a nation of animals. last time i checked real hindus had monkeys donkeys and elepents and cows as their gods. therefore u just called all of Pakistanies ur ultimate God.

this God shiva is going to bend u over and give u a good old whipping.

[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited February 18, 2000).]

[realpaki]

Mundyaa,

Is it written in Quran? os is your prophet
Mohammed use to do like this? then it is a new subject for Salman Rashdi to write a new novel. You may entitle for some % of proffit.

Please suggest these wild ideas to Salman and in your lifetime you don't need to collect social security

[ZZ]

yup mundayya.. we are a nation of animals. u think u r robot or machine or what. i believe it is 'homo sapiens' that use internet.

and we respect monkeys, donkeys, cows and every life form since we believe nature should be revered. we dont respect things that dont deserve respect, for example you.

What is big deal in being anything u are by chance and have not worked for it, say being human. Why should i hate a dog and love Paki, I see ample reasons to love a dog and hate Paki in stead.

And u seem to be more obsessed with 'lingam' of shiva. wonder about ur sexual orientation.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited February 19, 2000).]