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    what if there is a fourth war...

    There was a post in the politics section by Nadeem asking people's opinion about Pakistan helping sikhs in there struggle to get a separate home land for the sikhs. There were some interesting comments from people. Which made me think what if there was another war between Pakistan and India, what will happen?

    First the Indians showed their aggression while Pakistan Army was still in the process of being formed. They attacked from the Kashmir side but due to our brave brothers from FATA we captured one fourth of Kashmir. Then again in 65 Lahore was attacked and it is a very well known phrase that the then Army General of India said that tonight we will have drinks and dinner in the lahore Gym Khana. Then again in 71, but this time our so called "brothers: in East Pakistan betrayed us and joined India against the war against Pakistan.

    What if there is another war Against Pakistan and India? My opnion is that this time India will learn there lesson once and for all. Everybody knows that India was facing a bitter defeat in Kargil till our great leader Nawaz saheb without even consulting the COAS came to the US to set up a deal. But this time it would be a final lesson for India for laying eyes on Pakistan.

    As in the words Aziz Bhatti Shaheed:-
    "Fauj tadaad say nahi Istadaad say banti hay"

    And I believe in that great man's word defending the BRB with a company of men against the enemy's batallion with several tanks. The Indian army was never able to advance forward from the famous village of barqi. This is called Jazba and Insha Allah History will repeat itself and we will teach India a lesson if it does not stop its acts of aggression.

    AliBeta

    [This message has been edited by AliBeta (edited February 13, 2000).]

    #2
    Ali
    I donít have any comments about who will teach a lesson to whom, Allah Pakistan ko salaamat rakhe Amen.

    It seems to me that you have pretty good hold on Pakistanís history, so perhaps you wanna explain this:

    >> Then again in 71, but this time our so called "brothers: in East Pakistan betrayed us and joined India against the war against Pakistan. <<

    Iím only interested in the word íbetrayedí. During the 1965 war, which youíve mentioned in your post, these traitors fought on Lahore borders, and got the laqb Bengal tigers, now from that to traitors, why did they do that?
    Let me give you an example say I was your twin sister, and Iíd do anything for you, then why would I all of a sudden start hating you, and join someone who I knew wanted to kill you or me?

    You can answer my question or ignore it, lekin I do not want any offensive comments, thanks.

    Comment


      #3
      No Sabah jee, you cant expect offensive comments from me. The only thing I have to say is that didnt our "brothers" refuse to fight when India attacked in 71? Weren't they the ones who took hold of key millitary installations in East Pakistan and refuse to provide the men fighting in the war with supplies.

      I know what happened in the elections was a fault of Yahya Khan, but lets say if you were my twin sister, and if there was dispute that dispute can be resolved internally at home and not involving our known enemy. But I dont blame the Bengalis too, many Indian teachers in 68 onwards crossed borders and started filling the Bengalis years that the people in East Pakistan were there enemies. And time showed who was there friend and who was the enemy...

      I just hope Sabah jee, nothing was offensive, if there was, I apologize and let me know, but this is how I feel, and I didnt mean to say anything offensive in my prior posts too. These are just facts which I am stating as many friends of ours here are not informed.

      Comment


        #4
        Sooo what if there is Fourth war, its not like you gonna die or something.


        Jaawan

        ------------------
        Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

        Comment


          #5
          Ali
          I said that cuz the last thing I want to hear is someone telling me that Iím a non-resident Pakistani who donít care for the country, plus to avoid personal attacks.

          Ok back to the topic, I understand your views, lekin what I want you to tell me is why didnít we solve our internal problems? If Gen. Yahya couldnít why didnít Bhutto or Mujeeb solve the problem, they were representing two of the main parties? Bengal is the place from were the whole Pakistan movement started, they scarified just a much as any other Pakistani did during the partition and even after partition. What did WE do wrong? If you were my brother and you saw me sinking, how would you stop me? By beating be up? Or would you help me understand the problem and solve if not all then at least some of the problems?

          How could they help Pakistan when the India army came to írescueí them from us? The question could also be why did we put them in that situation? Yes there were more mukti bahini (or India agents) involved then Bengalis, lekin they had local support? And how do you get that?

          Comment


            #6
            Jawaan Saheb, I was shocked at your reply and I dont know what to write back. War is not a joke. And let me tell you if there is ever was a war I would be the first one to head towards the war front. Die while protecting my country, what else can I want?

            And as for Saah jee, I have to head to class so Insha Allah I will reply to your post later. As far as the NR thing is concerned I seriously did not want to offend you, the only thing which bothers me is the attitude of Pakistanis living abroad and always having the attitude as we in Urdu " Harr waqt Pakistan main keeray nikaltay rehna". I just wanted to imply that its very easy to say that Pakistan should improve itself but no one does something about it. But once again if you found that offensive I apologize.

            Comment


              #7
              Alibeta

              I'm not really sure why you posted this here.

              After reading some of the responses..it still seems more appropriate for Politics.

              It has been moved..please respond there.

              Comment


                #8
                Hey buddy in war time there should be some ONE who can make jokes about it? tikle the enemy lol


                Jaawan

                ------------------
                Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sorry Jawaan bhayee,
                  Agar war aap kay liye joke hay then I feel sorry for you. Just remember all those people fighting for you in the war front and there relatives worried sick about them.

                  Comment


                    #10

                    Alibeta... u r right. bangalies are traitors. there is no other way to put it. bangalies in particular bangali women should apologize for committing these horrendous crimes against our Army.

                    [This message has been edited by sabah (edited February 16, 2000).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      >>Alibeta... u r right. bangalies are traitors. there is no other way to put it. bangalies in particular bangali women should apologize for committing these horrendous crimes against our Army<<

                      What??? I hope you didnít mean to say this Ė itís just my stupid english. Could we start from beginning, when and how did all this start? What did they do? And how did we respond to this and when?

                      Last time when we discussed this, Farid asked a question that I had never thought about. During the 1965 those kale machere fought for us Against India, what happened between 1965-71? What transformed Bengal tigers into Bengali traitors?
                      If they fought for their rights and are traitors, then how come Sikhs werenít traitors when they fought for their freedom? And how come Chechens are not traitors, or Kashmiris?

                      What did Bengali women do to our jawans? I donít trust history written by India, lekin our own respected writers say that our jawans did rape Bengali women, not as many as they are accused to have, but even one rape is one too many, and you know that.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        saba, we made political mistakes by not giving bangalies proper rights. language, their quota in parliment etc. all of their demands could have been met but they werent as our incompetent political leaders had no will or desire to do so.

                        so the politicians blamed the army.... and viceversa. u have never experienced what it means to be in Pakistani army so u dont know. These men wake up at 4 and pray first thing in the morning and pray five times a day.... they live the most diciplined lives and accusing them of rape and other horrendous activities is indian propaganda which you all fall for. Pakistan army competes with an army 5 times their size. and ask indians they get nightmares. if they had no qualities and were all a bunch of rapists Pakistan would be but another colony of india today. but if u want to hop on to the bandwagon of propaganda as usual then be my guest.

                        [This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited February 16, 2000).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well Mundaya bhayee,
                          I absolutley agree with you. Pakistan Army is one of the most disciplined Armies in the world. Our jawaans are our shers. They are to us like bark is to a tree. No one has any right to criticize them. For a small pay and just for the jazba these people gaurd us from our enemy in remote places like Siachin.

                          Sabah the rape thing that you mentioned I just want to know where you read that. I would like to read these facts. I have done extensive reading on 71 war and its causes and being honest I havent come across this story. I am pretty sure there must be more to this than just Pakistan Army raping Bengali women. You say that in 65 Bengalis fought for us and what happened in between that period was that Bengalis were brain washed, they weren't able to differentiate between friends and foes. Another thing you are saying is that why aren't sikhs traitors if they are fighting for there freedom. This was never a matter of freedom Sabah, this was the matter of power. Sikhs are of a different faith while Bengalis were our Muslim brothers. There werent attrocities like the ones which are going on in Kashmir and Chechnya. Bengalis weren't being stood in lines and shot down just because they are Muslims.

                          I am still shocked that you call it a freedom struggle. You have to face the fact Mujeeb ur Rehman was power hungry and while he had Indira and Indian on his back he did what he could just to get a separate country.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Mundyaa,
                            Iím from a Punjabi village and my family has been in army for generations now. Pak has not been in a war were ppl from my village havenít fought. So I have pretty good idea of what they are. Yes they are very respectable because of their job, which is as much to respect and protect their women as their land.
                            Donít paint them as angles they are not. And this is second time that you are accusing me for falling for Indian propaganda, being a Pakistani does not mean that I should ignore what were bad has happened in our history, nor does it mean that we should blame others for all of our problems, we made a serious mistake end of discussion. Now concentrate on how we can move on, without repeating the history.

                            Ali
                            >>No one has any right to criticize them. For a small pay and just for the jazba these people gaurd us from our enemy in remote places like Siachin. <<

                            Youíre wrong, we have every right to criticize them if they donít do their job properly. And compared to other fields in Pak their wage is not small.

                            Re. Rape, there are several books written about it by Pakistani writers, Iím sure you can find one in your local library. Iím not blaming them, but we have to admit our faults and learn from them. A rape is a rape there is no need for any explanation for why, how and when.

                            Re. Brainwash, Bengalis were not and are not idiots, they loved Pakistan jut like any other Pakistani. You donít just go and brainwash ppl. As they say íChingari hoti hai to shola bhaRakta haií. The timeframe between 65 and 71 was not enough to do anything if there wasnít a problem. You guys keep admitting that our leaders failed to solve their problems, yet Bengalis are traitors.

                            For Mujeeb it was a matter of power for Yahaya it was power and for Bhutto it was power, but for a common Bengali it was a fight for their rights, you call it freedom or whatever. If Mujeeb was a traitor, which he was, then all those army gen. who hated them and called them íkale ******í were traitors too. And ref. For this is a book written by an army man (Sadik Salik, witness to surrender).

                            Ali this was not about Mujeeb, cuz then it has too be Mujeeb vs. Bhutto and Yahya, and this comparison will not paint us as good as we want to be painted. I objected to the word íbetrayedí and so far your reasoning for calling them traitors has been very weak.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I would seriously like to object the words you are using for the Pakistan Army. Well quoting about the rape this is very easy. I am sorry but you have failed to provide any facts. It would be great if you could provide me with a book as you said written by a Pakistani writer.

                              As far as our Shers our concerned, Sabah let me just tell you this. Transporting a loaf of bread to Siachin cost 5000 rupees. And in such a place these shers protect us from our enemies. And let me tell you how much a pay of a Jawaan in the Army is. It is Arrpoximately 2500 hundred rupees. Let me convert that in dollars for you too as you might not have an idea how much that. 50 dollars. These Jawans do not fight for the money, when India first launched its attack in Siachin, the Jawaans of NLI (northern light infantry), without any specail equipment were fighting there. They had clothes on which could not even keep you warm in the winters in Islamabad. More than half of these shers never got to return home. You would think just for measly 2500 rupees. So let me tell you Sabah that is not the case. It is the spirit. Once again I would like to quote Aziz Bhatti Shaheed when asked if Pakistan Army has the potential to face such a big enemy when Shastri said he is going to open mahaaz after a bitter defeat in run of kuch:-

                              "Jawaab Insha Allah moon tore Jawaab dain gay. Dushman ki fauj tankhwa pesha hay, aur humaray jawan jazbay kay liye lartay hain. yeh humari dhaal hain dhaal, aik dafa dushman ko buri nazar dalnay do, hum ankhain he nikal daalain gay".

                              I am sorry but now you are making me think that you have something personally against the Pak Army. If you call yourself Pakistani how can you say that we can critisize them.

                              As far as Bangladesh is concerned I have changed my attitude, main hara aap jeetin, naa mere kehnay saay Bangladesh waapis Pakistan ban jaye gaa naa aap kay kehnay say.

                              Actually let me tell you how I feel like. I am actually glad sayapa he khatam ho gaya. This was too happen anyway. Geographically there was so much distance that both the Pakistans have could have been United, so jo kall ko honaa thaa aaj hee sahi. Especailly our dear friend India being between the two. Jo Bangladesh nay 30 years main maarkay maar liye hain woh aap ko bhee patah hay and mujhay bhee.

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