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    Talk of civil war – Iraq

    Talk of civil war – Iraq
    uploaded 08 Mar 2006


    “I think there's very little that they can do with it. It's not within their control. They are in a country which is possessed by people who have a religion which has not been reformed since medieval days and which is now behaving in the sort of way which we saw in the religious wars between Christians of various denominations in Europe several hundred years ago and which thank God we've got over long ago. I don't believe the occupation forces, the British and the Americans and the others, can do anything about that ...

    …look this is not a matter which the Americans and the British can resolve, you can't go in there and stop these people from hating each other and killing each other. It's what they've been doing for a very long time. And they will probably continue to do it. So I think we should do our best to stand back as far as we can from it, not to get involved in trying to hold two sides in a religious war against each other and hope that the Iraqis themselves will be able to resolve it to stop the descent into civil war because I don't believe that we can.”

    (Lord Norman Tebbit, Former Conservative Party Chairman UK, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/any...20060224.shtml)

    Such statements strike a chord with Western audiences. They find it difficult to understand the Islamic world. They crave comfort in the notion that Iraqis are barbaric fanatics that are only too keen to rip each others throats out. It is only the decency of the upstanding peace loving Western troops that can keep these savages apart. They hold to a notion that there exists a massive gulf between what CNN refers to as "The Shia" and "The Sunni" and that the hatred between the two runs deep and wide, and has done for centuries. They may picture themselves as romantic heroes; as portrayed by Peter O'Toole in Hollywood's Lawrence of Arabia, however we do not. We do not particularly care if the west deludes itself with images of Ali Baba and the forty thieves. But we do care about them exporting their warped version of reality to the Islamic world.

    It is true that Iraq is a violent and deeply troubled area of the world. What is also true is that the source of all of these problems is the crusader occupation. If there is apparent rivalry between Shia and Sunni in Iraq today, it is a product of the current political situation. The so called Shia and Sunni both have the same creed and rituals. No matter how much they try to forge massive differences or exacerbate small ones, we know our religion is one. Since 1979 the west, along with corrupt middle eastern regimes have sort to force a wedge between Persian speaking Muslims and Arab speaking Muslims. They fought a bloody and futile war for eight years using our wealth and brethren, both Arab and Persian, as pawns. Then, Iraq was a homogenous Arab-Sunni block, whilst Iran was Persian and Shia. Whilst now, Iraq suddenly becomes a mixture of Shia, Kurds, with a few Sunnis and lots of foreign extremists. We know this Ummah is one, we know our book is one, and most importantly we know that Allah is one. In contrast we also know that the root of our problems in Iraq stem from the Westerners. We do not buy this idea that they pedal that the problems of Iraq are our own internal differences surfacing, as they always have done. Frankly this notion is used to create a cycle of violence against ourselves, and divert attention from Western crimes.

    For the vast majority of the history of Islam, the Shia and the Sunni lived peacefully together. It was only in the last few hundred years that the Safavid’s established a quasi-independent Shia state in Persia and some tensions arouse. However, this was at a time when the Uthmaani Khilafah was in a state of rapid intellectual and political decline. For centuries, the Shia and Sunni continue to make Hajj (pilgrimage), year-on-year. In most areas of the Islamic world there are Shia and Sunni communities and by and large, there is little rivalry between the two, considering that each group numbers in hundreds of millions.

    In the early days of the occupation of Iraq, there were several united Sunni-Shia marches and demonstrations and there were no reports of violence from one group to the other. If Sunni and Shia in Iraq are now killing each other in the way suggested: it is a new phenomenon that began during the occupation.

    The war that is continuing in Iraq today, despite the political process there is between the various denominations within Iraq that want rid of the occupying forces. They have drafted in Iraqi civilians as an Iraqi army to fight the war for them. Due to the political reality of Iraq today, the Iraqi forces are primarily recruited from the Shia population and the majority of so called insurgents are from among the Sunni. In short, the war is primarily between the occupying forces and their allies from among the Iraqi people whether Sunni or Shia, versus the insurgency that is primarily derived from the Iraqi people Sunni and Shia.

    Iraq has taken further steps towards civil war from two perspectives. Firstly, the insurgency has always been targeted against the occupying forces, so as more and more responsibility is handed over to their Iraqi allies, the insurgency will more and more be pitted against the Iraqi army, a proxy for the occupying forces but nevertheless Iraqi. Secondly, the resistance against occupation has gained in strength, support and momentum and may soon be named a “war” rather than an insurgency. So civil war may unfortunately be on the way, but this is unrelated to Sunni Shia differences. May Allah (swt) prevent the continuing political turmoil from leading to polarisation along, what they would call creedal lines as is being suggested.

    Insh-Allah, Iraq is still far away from civil war in the sense of Sunni versus Shia. There is no justification in either Sunni or Shia Islam for either to declare war against the other. It is simply another red herring, designed to make the world believe that the problems in Iraq are because of Islam. However, only Islam can solve the problems of Iraq.

    It is crucial that a movement of Iraqi people be cultivated, independent of the occupying forces, that produces a consensus on the future of Iraq, truly representing the thoughts and wishes of the Iraqi people without interference from the US. Such a movement, through popular support and respect could bring peace to Iraq and re-establish it on the path of progress. Through this, perhaps a new Khilafah state for the 21st century, but along the rightly guided lines of Rasool-Allah's (Sallallahu alaihi wassalam) governance, could be re-established with its capital in Bagdhad that would bring peace, stability and progress to the Islamic world.

    Source: KCom Journal

    #2
    Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

    So all the violence between Shia and Sunnis in Iraq is actually in response to the occupation as is the violence we occasionally seen between these two groups in Pakistan. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

      ^ UTd, You know there were no road side bombings, suicide bombings, beheadings, kidnappings before we got there. Thanks for not clearing that up.
      Weather forecast for tonight: dark.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

        Bring back Saddam?
        Boycott Venezuelas State owned Citgo.

        Buy Royal Dutch Shell gasoline!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

          stop fking up. make a name for being borderline competant instead of getting yourself photographed or videotaped pointing at peoples genitals or of piles of naked men or of frightened people with dogs barking at them or tasteful commentary of brutal relentless beatings. how about actually accounting for something with your presence, Pakistan has had shia sunni violence and has controlled it with a much smaller force without much photographed genital-pointing.

          You folks clearly took on a task that is too much for you. Afghanistan was a half assed blow up however many bearded people as we can mission that still isnt over, and Iraq is making you look shockingly, criminally incompetant.
          Din-e-Mullah fee sabeelillah fasad (Allama Iqbal)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

            Originally posted by ravage
            You folks clearly took on a task that is too much for you. Afghanistan was a half assed blow up however many bearded people as we can mission that still isnt over, and Iraq is making you look shockingly, criminally incompetant.
            Oh no question about that ravage and those who decided to run the war the way it's been run should be held accountable including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Bush, add Powell for knowing better and still allowing it to go down the way it did. The real Shock and awe was that that Team Asshole was re-elected.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

              May be this was the intention from the start, to hit where it going to hurt the most. I can bet you that the American Army will be back in two years, the country formerly known as Iraq will lead the whole region 50 years back, but the oil supply will continue. Its just the continuation of the smae process which created Iraq in the first place.
              بِن دانا پانی میں جی لواں
              بِن انَک میں جی نہ سکاں

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                So long as Sistani is around, a civil war is unlikely (unless he states otherwise). Without him, Iraq would have descended in to chaos along time ago. Its due to his leadership that shias are being held back despite being tested day in day out, by the occupiers, insurgents and alqaeda in the God forsaken country.
                O He whose Name is a Remedy, whose remembrance is a Cure, and whose obedience is Wealth!

                Have mercy upon him whose capital is hope and whose weapon is tears!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                  Originally posted by Kaleem
                  ^ UTd, You know there were no road side bombings, suicide bombings, beheadings, kidnappings before we got there. Thanks for not clearing that up.
                  Bombing NO!
                  However beheadings, kidnappings were the norm even before Americans toppled SadDamn. The difference now is that both Shia and Sunnis are committing atrocities. They used to be one sided. If in doubt ask the Shias.
                  Mullahs are lying and our soldiers dying!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                    Originally posted by 1924
                    So I think we should do our best to stand back as far as we can from it, not to get involved in trying to hold two sides in a religious war against each other and hope that the Iraqis themselves will be able to resolve it to stop the descent into civil war because I don't believe that we can.”
                    WRONG! West had the same approach in Afghanistan and look what happened.

                    Terrorism and fanaticism are the twin facets of Mullahtic-cancer that must be subjected to quick "radiation" and "chemical" treatment. Early detection and preemptive methods are must to stop this cancer from spreading.
                    Mullahs are lying and our soldiers dying!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                      Originally posted by underthedome
                      Oh no question about that ravage and those who decided to run the war the way it's been run should be held accountable including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Bush, add Powell for knowing better and still allowing it to go down the way it did. The real Shock and awe was that that Team Asshole was re-elected.
                      yeah the same tired Blame Bush.. Blame Chaney rhetoric

                      has it occured to you that your darling liberals put the ass in this glorious team Asshole by endorsing the war every step of the way?
                      JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                        Not true at all PA.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                          Originally posted by underthedome
                          So all the violence between Shia and Sunnis in Iraq is actually in response to the occupation as is the violence we occasionally seen between these two groups in Pakistan. Thanks for clearing that up.

                          There is no war between shias and sunnis, we are first muslims, second muslims & last muslims. In reality this is a war between two civilizations, west and the Islam, ideologically west have lost it and now they are trying to create a confusion throuh their controlled media as they used to do for their survival. No matter how hard they try Allahs victory is with the believers, so is the reason of supporting dictators to kill muslims and calling the world for peace and hipocracy(democracy).

                          I quote from the leaders of shias and sunnis "Many of our brothers, including Sunnis, have welcomed the call and will take part," said Shaikh Abd al-Hadi al-Daraji, a spokesman for al-Sadr. "We hope it's going to be one million people strong."

                          In the end, the march did attract tens of thousands of people chanting the slogan “No America! No Saddam! Yes to Islam!""

                          Same is the case with pakistan, it is the west who is inciting the voilence between the two,we are Muslims who have lived with jews in peace and protected them, I dont know what are you talking about. It is Islam who will secure this world form their evil states and bring back the RULE of Allah with the return of THE KHILAFAH STATE. Ameen

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                            Originally posted by Ohioguy
                            Bring back Saddam?
                            Would you perfer Ho Chi Minh

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Talk of civil war – Iraq

                              Originally posted by 1924
                              There is no war between shias and sunnis, we are first muslims, second muslims & last muslims. In reality this is a war between two civilizations, west and the Islam, ideologically west have lost it and now they are trying to create a confusion throuh their controlled media as they used to do for their survival. No matter how hard they try Allahs victory is with the believers, so is the reason of supporting dictators to kill muslims and calling the world for peace and hipocracy(democracy).

                              I quote from the leaders of shias and sunnis "Many of our brothers, including Sunnis, have welcomed the call and will take part," said Shaikh Abd al-Hadi al-Daraji, a spokesman for al-Sadr. "We hope it's going to be one million people strong."

                              In the end, the march did attract tens of thousands of people chanting the slogan “No America! No Saddam! Yes to Islam!""

                              Same is the case with pakistan, it is the west who is inciting the voilence between the two,we are Muslims who have lived with jews in peace and protected them, I dont know what are you talking about. It is Islam who will secure this world form their evil states and bring back the RULE of Allah with the return of THE KHILAFAH STATE. Ameen

                              Scores killed in Baghdad car bombings
                              Sunday 12 March 2006 1:46 PM GMT
                              At least 66 people have been killed and more than 300 wounded in a series of attacks in Iraq, including 50 dead and 290 injured in a triple car bombing of a Baghdad Shia neighbourhood.
                              http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...E3D6F9D9A8.htm
                              Last edited by Ma Mooli; Mar 12, 2006, 02:38 PM.
                              Boycott Venezuelas State owned Citgo.

                              Buy Royal Dutch Shell gasoline!

                              Comment

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