Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who owns Pakistan?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Who owns Pakistan?

    Recently, Inderfurth asked Musharraf to shut down Harkat-ul-Mujahideen's offices in Pakistan due to its terrorist activities. But Musharraf was non-committal. According to press reports, he fears a violent backlash from HUM and others of its ilk if he tries to clamp down on them. The HUM chief in an interview to REUTERS said that if Musharraf did indeed tried to ban HUM, there would be utter anarchy in Pakistan.

    Now, who exactly is in charge here? Only the other day the Pakistani CEO had said that the "enemy would be taught a lesson". Can he say the same for the enemy within - HUM? Or can't he? And seriously, who is supposed to be running Pakistan - Nawaz Sharif (constitutionally), the Army Chief or the HUM?

    #2

    agni
    in recent past, i'v seen so many postings from u concerning Pakistan......not even Pakistanis would be that much infatuated with such a burning passion!.....one question for u........ do u have a life?? if not, then get one!!.....it'll make things a lil more easier for u
    Otherwise, obsession has no limits and soon we gonna see questions from u like wat color underwear musharaf wears on Friday nites and how many times a day, chief of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen goes to restroom!…….so plz take my advice and see if it helps!

    Comment


      #3
      Agni

      Life is not so simple. No doubt Musharraf is a secularist but so was Benazir Bhutto. Neither dared to take on these HUMs or Lashkars b/c it would cause civil war. Look at your own country and you will see similar problems. Shiv Sena and other lunatic fringe groups are operating with impunity in India and the government is doing little to reign them in. In fact many neutral observers feel that the BJP is the acceptable political face of the hindutva movement. Certainly very little effort was put into preventing the desecration of the Babri masjid.

      It does not reflect well on India's secular credentials if renowned Pakistani artists such as Ghulam Ali are chased out of India by a bunch of rabid hoodlums shouting hindutva slogans.

      Comment


        #4

        >>
        agni
        in recent past, i'v seen so many postings from u concerning Pakistan......not even Pakistanis would be that much infatuated with such a burning passion!.....one question for u........ do u have a life?? if not, then get one!!.....it'll make things a lil more easier for u
        <<

        KK, just what are you trying to tell me? That I shouldn't be raising uncomfortable questions about Pakistan? Who the hell are you to tell me to get a life? On the other hand on your manner of speaking, may I ask you if you have one? I thought this was a free forum where people can express their views openly. However, psuedo-nationlists such as you attack exactly such people since they either dont have the courage to give truthful answers to the question at hand or are so deeply mired in ignorance that the best they can do is to make sadistic personal attacks on others. If you have a problem with my postings on this forum find another one.

        >>
        Otherwise, obsession has no limits and soon we gonna see questions from u like wat color underwear musharaf wears on Friday nites and how many times a day, chief of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen goes to restroom!…….so plz take my advice and see if it helps!
        <<

        I dont have an imagination as fertile as yours to be asking such stupid questions. Thanks for trying to advise me. I dont need it. But yes, you do need some help.

        Comment


          #5
          Extreme,
          >>
          Shiv Sena and other lunatic fringe groups are operating with impunity in India and the government is doing little to reign them in. In fact many neutral observers feel that the BJP is the acceptable political face of the hindutva movement. Certainly very little effort was put into preventing the desecration of the Babri masjid.
          <<

          First of all, you are comparing apples and oranges. Shiv Sena is no armed militant group on the US State departments list of terrorist organisations. No doubt, it does have a militant streak in it and there are credible reports that it was involved in the Bombay riots after the Ayodhya incident. It tried to bully around in Mumbai but look what the electorate did to it. Thackeray was actually considering quitting politics. But to set the record straight, I didn't intend to say "Hey, look what a mess your country is while mine is oh-so-good". If that impression was created by my post than I am amongst a very touchy group of people. Also, I see a tendency amongst people here to throw back the issue into India's court as if that was any answer - "We have this problem so what? You too have it!". I guess that comes because I have said that I am an Indian. What would you say if a Pakistani asked the same question?

          >>
          It does not reflect well on India's secular credentials if renowned Pakistani artists such as Ghulam Ali are chased out of India by a bunch of rabid hoodlums shouting hindutva slogans.
          <<

          Fully agree with you. Shiv Sena and his gang have always got a bad press in India. Top Indian leaders including Vajpayee severely criticized Thackeray. And dont forget how Vajpayee ensured that the Indo-pak match went ahead in spite of Shiv Sena trying to sabotage it. So I dont agree that no efforts have been made to reign them in. But again, I am not trying to show one country in a poor light vs other. This was just an open, well meaning question. Apparently, it wasn't seen that way. More's the pity.

          Comment


            #6
            >> That I shouldn't be raising uncomfortable questions about Pakistan?<<

            Your original posting has no uncomfortable question but it carries more of sarcastic tone so don't get irked up with my response……ur posting deserved it

            >> I thought this was a free forum where people can express their views openly<<

            Indeed, its free forum,…….and that's why I posted my views concerning ur posting……so again, before giving me any lecture on freedom of speech, learn 'bout it urself first.

            >> Who the hell are you to tell me to get a life?<<

            Tryin' to be cocky!!…..don't go that way…..it'll only leave a bad taste in ur mouth!

            >> I dont have an imagination as fertile as yours<<

            well….looking at ur original post, u sure do have a lot more fertile imagination, and Iam sure there'll be more stupid questions coming from u in the near future!

            Last but not least…..

            >> just what are you trying to tell me?<<

            I think I made the point explicitly clear in my original post…….Get a life!

            This kinda attitude towards Pakistan ain't gonn take u anywhere……my dear!!

            Comment


              #7
              Agni

              My point was that even if Musharraf wanted to crack down on those groups he wouldn't dare try because it would lead to civil war. They are criticised in Pakistani press as well and, as in India they would not get elected to power. Although the BJP did get elected in India and it is reckoned to have ties with RSS and Shiv Sena.

              As for if this question had been asked by a Pakistani it would make no difference to me. There are plenty of Pakistanis on this forum that I have disagreements with but always better to discuss the issues rather than concentrate on nationality.

              >>But to set the record straight, I didn't intend to say "Hey, look what a mess your country is while mine is oh-so-good". If that impression was created by my post than I am amongst a very touchy group of people. Also, I see a tendency amongst people here to throw back the issue into India's court as if that was any answer - "We have this problem so what?

              You are taking it the wrong way. I am showing you that it is easy to point finger at others but when you have the same problem yourselves then you should understand why things are like that.

              As for US list of terrorist groups I have no time for hypocrisy of the US. Pakistan can't afford to keep dancing to the US tune. They keep changing their tune as you yourself pointed out in an earlier post.

              Comment


                #8
                Agni

                My guess would be that Musharraf is busy in tackling so many issues and trying to bring some stability and sanity...touching that swarm of bees can cause immediate problems in that arena. There are many groups in pakistan who would want to see an end to Military rule not because of their love for democracy, but because they feel threatened that there deeds may become an open book.

                I would assume that once their is some stability issues like this will start being looked upon too.

                Personally US actions always surprised me. They had Sinn Fein leaders come and do fund raising in US while IRA was blowing up subway stations in London.

                Now you realize that when you are asking these questions, people are only giving you the answers based on what they think, no one here has brunch meetings with the powers that be to get real answers.

                Constant questioning can get irritating, however well meaning it may be, and I dont mean this forum only. heheh recall when your mum had questions for you...where were you, who were you with, what did you do...or that nosy uncle who wanted to know what your university ranking was, what the average starting salary was, and so on ...

                If people see it as a constant flow of questioning they may get a bit irritated. Just like people should chill and not start screaming at the person asking the question, but that person should better manage the questioning as well. Simple communications mon ami.

                I personally dont get offended or upset by any questioning here. I do get surprised that I have never seen any post that says something along the lines of,..okay I see what your perspective on tis topic is, or the popular consensus beyind any media or government hype. What I see is the constant game of "uncle" going on with no one saying, hey I dont agree with your view, or your stance...but maybe I learnt something. We just have to play to win.

                Agni, all of this is not directed towards you or your post...I think that it is a general problem in the forum.

                The end result being this, even if we spoke like rational, civilized and intelligent people...what is it really that we can do on our own. I for one dont think that I can go to Gen.Musharraf and say..Yo dude shut that group down..

                We are here to communicate, exchange ideas and promote better understanding. But until people change their whole approach and stop thinking about "winning the argument" we did not accomplish squat.
                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sabah,
                  Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Guess, KK was pretty much trying to convey the same message. But that was no way to talk. Maybe, I rubbed you guys the wrong way. Sorry about that.

                  Before I sign off from this forum, KK -

                  >>
                  This kinda attitude towards Pakistan ain't gonn take u anywhere……my dear!!
                  <<
                  I anyway don't expect my attitude towards Pakistan (if there was such a thing) to be taking me places. You dont have to read my postings to see that. Just read what the world is saying about Pakistan. And you'd know that Pakistan itself is getting nowhere.
                  A pity that you think I have an attitude problem vis-a-vis Pakistan. You sensed a sarcastic tone in my posting. I can accept blame for not being careful with words here. But you had no right to make personal attacks on me. Who'd believe you are not getting inspiration from HUM type of people. And no, I am not ending my note giving sermons to you. You seem to know what is good for you. So there. Goodbye and good luck.

                  Comment


                    #10

                    >>I anyway don't expect my attitude towards Pakistan (if there was such a thing) to be taking me places<<

                    i guess u take the words more to their more direct literal meanings........so no comments.

                    >>you had no right to make personal attacks on me<<

                    personal attack!!.......my dear that'd be the last thing in my mind while i'd post something here...... u had a thread opened, and i posted my views on it.... where does this personal attack factor comes in from?
                    That'd be justifiable, if i had picked u off for no reason and had put some remarks 'bout ur personality.........my remakrs 'bout "getting a life" was purely related to ur post, not to u in person..... just wanted to set the records straight up here.....nothing more! take care

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh just give the US parrot(Inderfurth) a pacifier and everybody would shut up. LOL

                      Fata Morgana

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Agni,

                        >>Before I sign off from this forum<<

                        Ahem chanda kidhar?? This is as we all agree upon a free forum and not every member will (or should ) agree with the other, but that is no reason to leave the forum, and especially not this way – naraz naraz.

                        We need Indians like you and some other already on forum to represent India, we all need to understand and communicate with each other – maybe we don’t like it today but hopefully some day we’ll learn to accept each other.
                        So you changing your mind about leaving this forum or should we send some mujahedeen to help you

                        Comment


                          #13
                          This is the rubbish post I have ever seen. I can't beleive that Indians..minds.. r so narrow..that they r asking now "Who owns Pakistan??" Agni...grow up. Simple..answer for U ..is ..The people of Pakistan owns Pakistan.
                          Is that what your answer??

                          Let me give you a little advice son..Solve problems of your own land rather to keep eye on others. Is that clear??
                          It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great law-giver, the Prophet of Islam. (Quaid-e-Azam Speech at Shahi Darbar, Sibi, February 14, 1948)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Sabah,

                            I guess I owe an explanation to you as well as other on this forum who might have been offended by my posting. "Who owns Pakistan?" is actually a book written by cant-remember-the-dude.

                            Shafiq, you are falling for that old trap. I clarified here that I am not comparing the two nations here. You cant. Each has its own good and bad points and it is really up to the individual leaders to take care of those problems. As participants in a political debate we can only "mull" at possible solutions.

                            Let me make my point as politely as possible. If extremists such as HUM makes threats like "there will be anarchy" to the CEO (and an army chief at that) and the army chief actually takes it lying down it calls for an urgent remedy. Do you or dont you agree with that? True, the people of Pakistan do own Pakistan. So more poignantly, why are HUM folks holding an entire nation to ransom? I didn't want to say that we should cajol Musharraf into shutting down HUM's office in a jiffy. That obviously is a simplistic approach. If there has to be a solution (if you think a solution is required) it is precisely the people of Pakistan who have to make it happen.

                            Lastly, it is flames such as yours and KK's that put me off and quit this place. You will notice that at least I have given a wide berth to any issue that has been pointed out as a problem with India. And why not? I accept my nation's flaws for what they are worth. If every discussion between Indians and Pakistanis is going to end with a "solve your problems first and then talk about ours" then you know what - we two countries dont need to talk at all! We can continue with our ostrich like attitudes pretending that we have no problems at all. Like we have been doing in the past fifty years. I rest my case. Amen.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Agni
                              If you’ve already made up your mind about leaving this site, then I guess there isn’t much we can say about that, except that its a shame that we are loosing a member like you

                              I guess members are reacting this way (I did that too remember) cuz we often see ppl coming here and telling how bad we are doing blah blah and calling us hypocrites and God now what else, so when we have a serious member, sometimes its difficult to accept that he/she may not have a hidden agenda.

                              I hope you can understand why these ppl are reacting this way. And if you have decided to leave you won’t go rootha rootha.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X