My Schizophrenia

[Farid]

One of Indian participant predicted that:

“Hijackers will blow up the plane and Indians will hang the 35 wanted people”

Now that hostages have been set free and reached India safely at time of when people all over the world celebrating for new millenium. Above post looks like the words of a pessimistic or schizophrenic mind. (Sorry for such strong words). But the above and similar posts were basically aimed at attack on Islamic Religion and ultimately ridiculing Pakistan, show their hatred against the most peaceful religion on earth. This stupid drama reminds me of Oklahoma bombing when the first reaction came against Muslim religion.

For Indian participants: This indicates that Kashmir issue is not Indian internal matter now. There seems to be lots of trouble going on in held Kashmir. This requires solution like East Temore to stop genocide of Kashmiris in held Kashmir.


FM

[Rani]

>>But the above and similar posts were basically aimed at attack on Islamic Religion and ultimately ridiculing Pakistan, show their hatred against the most peaceful religion on earth.<<

The followers of peaceful religion have practiced ethinic cleasing by driving all the minorities out and continuously mistreat a few who are left behind and even mistreat their own women. You should remember that actions speak louder than words.

In Afganistan the Hijackers were provided more weapons by Taliban and now they are headed for Pakistan.

>>This indicates that Kashmir issue is not Indian internal matter now. There seems to be lots of trouble going on in held Kashmir.<<

Most of the trouble is caused by Pakistan and it will one day pay a huge price for training and harboring terriorists.

[Achtung]

Rani wrote: "The followers of peaceful religion have practiced ethinic cleasing..."

Ethnic cleansing is a term invented by Serbs to label their campain of ridding Yugoslavia of Muslims. Its funny how you've turned around the definition against Muslims.

Rani wrote: "...by driving all the minorities out and continuously mistreat a few who are left behind..."

Which minorities, do write and explain. How many Muslims were driven out of India? And continue to be driven out in Kashmir - check out the refugee camps in Pakistan.

Rani: "...and even mistreat their own women...."

And you treat women better, by what? Burning them alive?? (Achtung knows this is not a practice spread across all Indians, but he can GENERALIZE too).

Rani wrote: "You should remember that actions speak louder than words."

And your government should know this best - that is why they've kept over half a million troops in Kashmir to quell the impacts of what THEY BELIEVE are a few Pakistani insurgents - an outspoken minority amongst the majority of Kashmiris who are quite happy with their lives. Here is a joke for you - How many Indian soldiers are required to hold back a 'few' Pakistani militants? You can answer that.

Rani: "In Afganistan the Hijackers were provided more weapons by Taliban and now they are headed for Pakistan."

Good for them. They are frustrated and had no choice.

Rani wrote: "Most of the trouble is caused by Pakistan and it will one day pay a huge price for training and harboring terriorists."

Re-write: - Much of the Kashmiri liberation effort is supported by Pakistan, which will one day reap the benefits of a FREE Kashmir, through its training of FREEDOM fighters.

Achtung (in complete agreement with Farid bhai)

[This message has been edited by Achtung (edited January 01, 2000).]

[ZZ]

Achtung asks 'how many minorities are driven by Indian govt.?" well.. the richest indian is Muslim and your Jinnah's grandson is one of leading industrialists. tell me a prominent position that muslims did not have., perhaps except prime minister. i do not want to get in this debate again. even if the exaggerated figures claimed by Pakis are accepted, they are not fraction of fraction of east pakistan case. so dont teach us. in all cases, baluchistan or mohajirs, we know how u treat separatist movements in ur country.

the entire thing is heavily communal having already cleansed the hindus in valley. The second target was political. people have been killed for campaighning in the elections. afterall what is facism?

Actually the only state where minorities have been badly treated is Kashmir (where Muslims form majority), thanks to Pak trained mercenaries. If India was such an anti-minority state, why did people of calibre of Ustad bade ghulam ali khan and sahir migrate from Pakistan to India and become Indian citizens. Tell me a case of a hindu /sikh /ahmedi migrating from india to Pakistan.

about Pakistan getting rich dividends, let us watch. They have already lost half the country in trying to mess with India, have a huge burden of debt. It is a self defeating task they are in.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited January 02, 2000).]

[Rani]

Achtang wrote.....>>Ethnic cleansing is a term invented by Serbs to label their campain of ridding Yugoslavia of Muslims. Its funny how you've turned around the definition against Muslims.<<

The minority population of Punjab (Pakistan) in 1947 was 40% and now it is less than 1% as they were driven out, none of them left on their own accord because they were landowner and their families had lived there for thousand of years. Let me add that India currently has a larger muslim population than Pakistan.

Achtung wrote...>>And you treat women better, by what? Burning them alive?? (Achtung knows this is not a practice spread across all Indians, but he can GENERALIZE too).<<

This kind of behavior is punishable by law is a criminal offence, unlike horrible honor killing and jailing women for adultary etc. as praticed in Pakistan.

Achtung wrote ...- How many Indian soldiers are required to hold back a 'few' Pakistani militants?

Pakistan received large amount of sophisticated weapons to fight Soviets in Afganistan and lot of these are now being used in Kashmir by trained militants, it has made the area a war zone. All this has resulted in suffering for the Kashmiris.

Achtung wrote ..Good for them. They are frustrated and had no choice.

I guess they are frustrated because they couldn't grab Kashmir. All this about land grab and religion is used as a convienient excuse, take the religion out of equation the problem vanishes.

Achtung wrote...Much of the Kashmiri liberation effort is supported by Pakistan, which will one day reap the benefits of a FREE Kashmir, through its training of FREEDOM fighters.

If after all these tactic Pakistan survives as a state, which I doubt it. These trained religious fanatic will turn inwards and destablize Pakistan.

[Farid]

ZZ,

A few Pakistanis migrated to India does not make India a heaven on earth. After creation of Pakistan, minorities left Pakistan mostly on their own accord. No one drove them out of Pakistan. Still a large number of minorities, including Ahmadis living in Pakistan in peace. Your apprehensions about minorities is based on biased mind against Muslim Religion. You have to clear this bias against Islam then say what you want to say.

There is no independence movement is going on by Muhajir or in Balochistan, like movement going on in held Kashmir. Claiming of equal rights by minor provinces do not mean they want separation from the country. Unless agents from India involved in trying to creating such an environment, is another story.

Rani: From your writings it seems you hate Islam very much. I do not know what this religion has done to you but one thing I know from your posts that not only you hate Islam, but you are also a racist.

FM

[mundyaa]

u bet farid... hindus should take a deep look at their own racist religion before pointing fingers at others. no other religion divides people in classes but the hindu clan. no other religion preaches sex but hindu, which only goes to show the perverted nature of their teachers. brahman has screwed the shooder (untouchable) for years. till this day they wont hang around an untouchable let alone having relations with them.

so remember this hindus, by spitting in the sky u make no one but urself filthy.

[Rani]

Farid wrote ....>>From your writings it seems you hate Islam very much. I do not know what this religion has done to you but one thing I know from your posts that not only you hate Islam, but you are also a racist<<

Farid,

When you couldn't refute anything I said, you resorted to name-calling, which clearly indicates that you have lost an argument. You cannot condone hijacking of the plane and support proxy war in Kashmir and at the same time calling yourself followers of a peaceful religion.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited January 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited January 02, 2000).]

[ZZ]

I can give at least few examples of Muslims migrating to India from Pakistan, particularly among artists. That may not make India heaven, but definitely reflects what kind of cultural graveyard pakistan is.

As far as migration at time of partition is concerned, it was far from voluntary. Maybe some educted people left cuz they thought it will be better other side. But land holding people left with uncertain future and left only on being forced.

As far as Baloochistan movement and its crushing is concerned, I can give you some western references when I get time.

As far as Ahmadies and other minorities staying happily in Pakistan, I will refer you to an article on plight of Prof. Dr. Abdus Salam in Pakistan by Parvez Hoodoolbhoy in Chowk. You can easily search it.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited January 02, 2000).]

[Farid]

ZZ,

Giving these references do not make Pakistan being a horrible place on earth. There are a number of places such as Chechnya or Kashmir where human rights are being continuously violated basically aimed at crushing Muslims. By chance you belong to another religion i.e. why you can not feel at heart the atrocities committed against Muslims. You may be right in your perspective but for one moment think of yourself in their situation what other option do you have to save your butt in face of such cruel behavior.

I can give you number of references against India where minorities such as Muslims and Christians are being continuos target of Hindu extremism. But I know that all Hindus are not bad. There are lots of Hindus good at heart must be living in India which make India a better place to live. Similarly there are lots of good Muslims live in Pakistan, which make Pakistan a better place to live.


Rani

“Yarab woh na samjhe hain na samjhaingay meri baat”
“Day aur dil un ko jo na day mujh ko zabaan aur”


FM


[This message has been edited by Farid (edited January 03, 2000).]