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A trustworthy Friend of India .... Nawaz Sharif

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    A trustworthy Friend of India .... Nawaz Sharif

    If a person is

    (1) having very good friendship with Indian Prime Minister

    (2) supplying under-hand goods(sugar) while his country is fighting over Kargil

    (3) making phone calls late night to former Indian Premiers to discuss something...

    (4)calling back his army where they are about to win the war (in Kargil)

    (5)setting up sugar factories in India

    (6) stopping all sorts of investigations against the secret visit of Indian National Security Council chief (by forcing the Pak Intelligence Officer out of Pakistan)

    then that person should be called an Indian or Pakistani.

    Decesion is upto readers!!!!



    ------------------
    Nadeem

    #2
    The answer lies in the fact that a number of Indian visitor to this site are always defending Nawaz.

    Comment


      #3

      who's defended nawaz? Please show me a couple of posts by indians to that effect. I can show you a few Pakistanis defending Nawaz. indians never showed much approval to the military govt, but that isnt supporting nawaz.

      this sounds like a rather over-enthusiastic attempt to dump Nawaz, now that he's a nobody, onto india. talking of fair weather friends....
      Simple ain't easy.

      Comment


        #4
        what a stupid and immature description of facts:

        supply of sugar: 19 sugar mills sold sugar to India, including Fuji Foundation Sugar Mills; in total Pakistan earned $700 million from this deal;

        Red phone hot line between two prime ministers was set-up over 25 years ago and since then every ruler used that line;

        we should try grow up a bit...

        Comment


          #5
          Yasmin Je....Thankx a lot for your valuable comments. Actually I just compiled the fact to make common ppl understand.

          For ppl like you facts are given below. Sorry for lengthy details of YOUR BELOVED FORMER PRIME MINISTER

          what a stupid and immature description of facts:
          Now Matured facts are given here for your info.


          Nawaz took no chances. He rushed through the 13th and 14th constitutional amendments - the first denuding the president of power and transferring it to himself, including the hiring and firing of our military chiefs, and the second stifling all parliamentary dissent. He took on the judiciary, ably helped by former Supreme Court judge and sitting Senator, Rafiq Tarar. They and their men masterminded the storming of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and the subsequent sacking of a Chief Justice of Pakistan who might have found Nawaz Sharif guilty in one of the 150 cases pending against him and thus disqualified him from politics. The majority of the judges of the Supreme Court cooperated.

          Unluckily for them, Nawaz had a 'book' on each judge, recording their good and not so good deeds. These 'books' now lie in the safe custody of his successors.


          FIGHTING WITH HIS OWN SELECTED ARMY CHIEF
          Like his predecessors, Zulfikar and Benazir, Nawaz feared the army. He was unable to get along with his army chiefs, starting with Aslam Beg, then Asif Nawaz, and on to Waheed Kakar who sent him home in 1993. Returning, he had to contend with Jehangir Karamat who told the country what was wrong with it and its leaders. For that he was sacked. Nawaz, like Zulfikar, went down the line and chose the third in seniority, a man he took to be weak as he had no political base. As usual, a bad judge of character, Nawaz had blundered. General Pervez Musharraf is a soldier's soldier, strong of mind. Within a year a situation arose in which it was either a case of Nawaz getting rid of Musharraf or vice versa.

          So Nawaz planned a coup. On October 11, to maintain secrecy and cover their tracks, he and his co-conspirators - Inter Services Intelligence maestro Lt-General Ziauddin, Supreme Court stormer Mushtaq Tahirkheli, information wizard Mushahid Hussain, PTV boss Parvez Rashid, won-over Journalist-turned speech writer Nazir Naji - flew to Abu Dhabi to finalize the coup programme.

          Musharraf was to be dismissed whilst on his way back to Pakistan after an official visit to Sri Lanka, and Ziauddin installed in his seat. Did this hamhanded lot, including one serving Lt- General, not know how the army operates, that there is a minute to minute updated contingency plan to deal with all types of emergency? 10th Corp's 111 Brigade at GHQ Rawalpindi remains on red alert at all times, wherever be the COAS, to ensure that the army can take full control of the country within an hour.

          On October 12, when General Musharraf took off for his 200-minute flight to Karachi the prime minister issued a notification dismissing him and ordered Ziauddin to get himself to GHQ and assume command. When Ziauddin arrived, the CGS informed him that according to army tradition, he wouldhave to await the arrival of General Musharraf before command could be handed over. Ziauddin rushed to the PM's house in Islamabad for help and guidance.

          Then came the masterstroke. The nervous conspirators instructed Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, head of our national airline, to order those responsible to ensure that the flight carrying Musharraf would not land at Karachi. Where was it to land? Anywhere out of Pakistan. When the captain of the aircraft informed the control tower that he did not have enough fuel to fly out, he was told to land at Nawabshah. At Karachi, Nawaz's heavy, IGP Sindh Rana Maqbool Ahmad, sitting with the PM's Adviser on Sindh Affairs Ghous Ali Shah, bypassing the Nawabshah DC, ordered SSP Ahsanullah Gondal to round up the Nawabshah police force and APCs, rush to the airport, arrest General Musharraf when his plane landed, escort him to a secluded place, and hold him there until he and Ghous arrived by helicopter.

          Meanwhile, the army took over Karachi airport and ordered traffic control to bring in the aircraft, which by then was left with fuel for seven minutes of flight. End of conspiracy, end of coup. General Musharraf, COAS and CJCSC, landed, sacked Nawaz, and assumed control of the country.


          THE BLUNDER OF KARIL
          In rapid succession Nawaz Sharif pushed through his 13th and 14th constitutional amendments by which he converted himself into a supreme autocrat. The president was made a puppet, the power to appoint the service chiefs was his alone, the judiciary was rendered helpless, and now, with all institutions of the state at his mercy, Sharif wields sole power and is answerable to no man, woman or child of this country.

          Having done sufficient wrong, his sense of self-preservation should perhaps have made him aware that he was riding a tiger from which he might fall and be eaten up. But no, his instincts and reactions are those of mediaeval despots. Why are you surprised, 'they' ask, that when one talks of the hunger and thirst of the people he replies that he has given them yellow cabs and motorways? Did not Marie Antoinette, when told that the French had no bread to eat, ask why they did not eat cake? Why are you surprised, 'they' ask, that he flies in a 400-seater aircraft to go begging for money, that he takes his family with him for a photo-opportunity and to go little-mall shopping when he flies to Washington to beseech help to avoid war? Did Nero not fiddle whilst Rome was burning? Apocryphal may be the sayings about Marie Antoinette and Nero, but you are witnessing reality.

          India suspects that when Sharif received Vajpayee in February and made overtures to settle all differences through dialogue, the Kargil operation was already underway. The preparation for the climb would so suggest. The army was assured that once its men entrenched themselves on the heights of Drass-Kargil the government's diplomats and media machine would step in and successfully mobilize support for their version of the Kashmir issue, leaving the army holding advance positions.

          That the incursionists, Mujahideen, freedom fighters, patriots, defenders, zealots, or regular army (call them what you will) climbed the heights and entrenched themselves is a proven tactical feat. But what convinced them that the Indian forces would not strike back, that they would not react as they did having been caught napping? When Sharif realized that his miscalculation was likely to develop into an all-out war he retreated and sued for peace. That is the one right thing he did do - he did not compound his mistake. Possessing the qualities listed in the opening paragraph, we allowed him to become an autocrat. What right have we now to grumble about whatever he may do?


          As for our war-mongers and zealots, the uneducated and ignorant majority, they should be informed by the government in power that India makes a formidable foe. Its armed forces are twice the size of ours, making it impossible for us to sustain a military conflict. Economically, if reserves are anything to go by, India is forty times our size. It is of no use us propagating the myth that one Pakistani soldier is equal in strength and courage to five Indian soldiers. Our retired generals, colonels, air marshals, wing-commanders, admirals and commodores do us a disservice when they air their views on the national media and relate how, whenever Muslims have gone to war, it has been against a foe far superior in number but their spirit of sacrifice and their valour have always made them victors. Wars now cannot be won without global sympathy and support. Propaganda must have credibility behind it.


          The Indian propaganda during the Kargil conflict has been sympathy-weaning, clever and insidious.

          Take this excerpt from 'The Times of India' editorial of July 12:

          "... Islamabad's recidivism has led some people in India to believe that unless Pakistan is punished severely for its aggression - and unless that punishment sinks into the consciousness of the Pakistani population - another aggression might be initiated a few years down .... there must be reasoned policy on how to deal with the post-Kargil situation. India has no quarrel with the Pakistani people. Our problem is with the rulers.

          "There are ways of conveying to the people of Pakistan the pain and humiliation the rulers of that country have subjected them to for no rhyme or reason.... An army which does not acknowledge its own dead is not likely to keep up its morale as a fighting force. India should compile a detailed list of the identities of the Pakistani soldiers killed in action in Indian territory and publish it in our print and electronic media and on the Internet ... the families of the dead akistani soldiers may come to know about the fate of their loved ones felled in battle and whom their rulers have - to their eternal shame - disowned .... A nation which repudiates its war dead will have little credibility among its own people... Already, sections of the Pakistani media are denouncing the rash adventurism of their rulers. With TV, Internet, satellite telephones and fax machines available to the Pakistani population, they cannot be deceived for long."For the present, war clouds have receded, with our side admitting to the loss of 250 lives (do we double, treble or quadruple that figure to get to reality?), and with India admitting to the loss of around 2000 (which must also be multiplied), losses which we feel with equal grief. The monetary cost to us has been over $100 million and the fact that India admits to having lost double that amount can be no consolation.


          Yasmin Je! I hope that these two matured facts will help us to grow!!!!!

          ------------------
          Nadeem



          [This message has been edited by Nadeem (edited December 14, 1999).]

          Comment


            #6
            Nadeem,

            Your ‘mature facts’ may be true. But the way military kick the elected governments out is also not correct. I am sure there must have been other ways to stop Nawaz for committing so called crimes. Believe me ruling by military has brought more disaster than weak democracies in the past.

            Who brought Ayub Khan to justice when he imposed 1965 war where thousands of people laid their lives with out any out come?? When he returned all the occupied areas taken during the war without conditions, Shastri the then PM of India died of happiness and excitement after the meeting at Tashkent.. That war which was supposed to get Kashmir turned out to be a night mare for country's economy and prosperity.

            Who hanged Yahya Khan? During his tenure three million Bengalis were killed, minor girls and women rapped, 95000 soldiers laid their arms infront of Indian General, and ultimately resulted in breakup of the country in 1971.

            Who had ever questioned the actions of Zia-ul-Haq?. He is founder of paving the way for drugs and terrorism. He was also involved in division on the lines of sect , religion and political affiliations. The country has already tested the fruit of hatred and who knows where this type of racism and hatred will lead the country in future.

            As compared to these events, Nawaz has done nothing. According to constitution he had full right to post Chief Justice and Chief of Army of his choice. Please open your eyes and think in proper perspective.

            FARID M


            [This message has been edited by Farid (edited December 14, 1999).]

            Comment


              #7
              Farid:
              was there a better way to remove Nawaz Shriff from power?
              The judicial system, the president and all major diplomats were under his control...there was no other way to remove NAWAZ and his regime!!!

              As a matter of removing Chief of the Army Staff or a General, I think it costs a lot of money to make them and a lot of hard working by the military personal to become a general and to remove them on a cause that the politian doesnt like them is stupid !!!!! The Army Personals being truely LOYAL to the country is punished in political way!!!! thats again rubbish!!!! An Army personal know the true Loyalty, to fight for a country is not easy!!! to leave there families and to face bullit!!! it not that easy task!!!!! I think true loyality makes them to do this!!!!!
              Ang if they see that the country is being looted and the system is destroyed. the politians are friend of there enemies!!! who are dreaming to destroy the country and r doing business with them for there own personal benefits not for the benefit of the country or when the soldiers r in war with them I think that person shouldnt be given a chance to live!!!!!! that is GHADARI....

              **And even they are awaiting for india to help them from this crises!!!!!!


              [This message has been edited by Mujahid (edited December 14, 1999).]

              [This message has been edited by Mujahid (edited December 14, 1999).]

              Comment


                #8
                Democracy is only a word at the end of the day. Words by themselves can't change anything. The champions of democracy (France, USA) turned against democracy when it was about to deliver the islamists to power in Algeria. Then the western countries decided that military rule and civil war was better than democracy.

                So get over these cliches. The real world is a very cynical place driven by wealth, greed and power not lofty ideals. Democracy has it's uses, just like military juntas have their uses. Just like chemical weapons, espionage, financial blackmail etc all have their uses.

                If democracy can be abandoned when the people vote for islam, then it can certainly be abandoned when Pakistan is being fleeced by the likes of Benazir and Nawaz.

                Comment


                  #9

                  Quite right Mr.Extreme I agree with you entirly.

                  The importent point to note is that why was the coas sacked when he was not in the country,why could not he have been removed from the post when he had arrived back.
                  It is obvious that the intentions of the former prime Minister were dubious.

                  Also which indian leader has any business intrests in Pakistan.How can a Prim Minister of Pakistan justify having sugar mills in India?.
                  It is clearly obviouse that the the Army ,at least,is more loyal to Pakistan then these bloodsucking polititions,those who cant see that must be living on another planet.

                  As for democracy these politions had ten years to consolodate and build democoracy in Pakistan.It is they who need to know the meaning of democracy,before they start calling for "free and fair elections and restoration of DEMOCRACY".What right have they got to built dinesties,Pakistan is not their property.

                  Wake up people and dont be taken in by the propoganda of enemies of pakistan.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You all may be right about army being the sole ruler of the country. But irony of the fact is that the major disasters were occured to Quaid's Pakistan during the army rules. From country's breakup to destruction of all the institutions.

                    I have noticed that these discussions become a 'vicious circle' when people without acknowledging the facts starts to abuse politicians. I do not know whose @$$e$ they want to save? In the end everybody's
                    @$$ will be on the line with such kind of vicious thinking.

                    FARID M

                    Comment


                      #11
                      blaming politicians reminds me of old akbar-birbal story in which akbar orders to hang all the father in laws.

                      bus.. u change the face at top.. everything will be alright.

                      but this is better than indians. indians tend to think that nothing is going to help the state of affirs. pakistanis at least seem to be optimistic that some small cosmetic measures will be enough.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Welcome back ZZ,

                        I know that politicians are no angels. But if you were given a choice to select between two evils, you would prefer lesser evil. When I compare autocratic rule with weak democracy, I find weak democracy is much better option, because it has greater chance of improvement as compared to autocratic/dictatorship. Unfortunately we were not being able to figure it out what sort of government we want even after lapse of 52 years. On one hand we want good democratic government but on the other hand we do not want to go against the army which has repeatedly kicked the elected governments out of office and constitution thrown in the garbage. This type of hit and trial system had failed in the past, it is bound fail in future. Every time failure has brought more disaster to the country. Unless democracy is not upheld whatever the country’s situation is, the fate 120 million people is doomed.


                        FARID M


                        Comment

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