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**Mr Xtreme** · Dec 12, 1999, 12:47 PM

This is a loaded question, even though I appreciate that may not be the intention. I do not hate Indians as people, in fact I know quite a few on semi-social basis, but that is personal and has nothing to do with wider issues.

The fact is that India is an enemy of Pakistan and muslim nations as a whole) and as a Pakistani and a muslim I have no business being friends with the enemy of my country. Friendship has to be based on something, so those who promote friendship with Indians are welcome to put forward reasons why we should be friends with Hindustan.

If we are muslims we are not allowed to seek friendship with those who oppress other muslims. This is what colours my opinions. I will post some evidence to back up this point.

**Jaawan** · Dec 12, 1999, 01:37 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm lets see if you hate me i will surely hate you 100 time more. If you like me i will surely like you 100 time more...so indians hate us...want to destroy pakistan we have no reason to be nice to them when they present threat to our country and our security...if you TRY to make our lives a knightmare, WE WILL make you lives a living true nightmare!!!

Jaawan

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Till next time***K_I_S_S***

**Nova** · Dec 12, 1999, 03:42 PM

Xtreme and Jawaan,,
Ppl generally agree that its better to have a friend then an enemy...so it would have been beneficial to have a friendly india.
For both of you gentlemen , what came first....The feeling that Indians are our enemies by what we were told , or the intelligence to analyse and decide for ourselves... I think it was the Former. Is it remotely possible that we started looking at india through colored glasses and that has never allowed us to be objective , or do our part in improving the trust.
Let us agree that indians are our enemies and involved in activities against us...what do we do now? we have two options, one is to respond in kind which would keep it going till one is eliminated,not the best of the options. Second is to work towards improving the relationship.
How do you change an enemy into a friend?
First thing is to realize that we want that change. Second is to realize that both (not one) party has been responsible for the propogation of enemosity , so that we can own our share of the wrongdoings...Third is that on matters of murual disagreement , the final decision would not be what any one of the two wants it would be somewhere in between. forth , and most important is that..someone has to take the first step Unilaterally....We cannot ask them to do something that we ourselves are not willing to do...someone has to take the first step.. This reminds me of what Albright told Natan yahho...lets stop complaining like kids and start working on the problems....

**Mr Xtreme** · Dec 12, 1999, 04:55 PM

Nova,

Even if Pakistan wants to be friends with India, what makes you think that that will suit India? Remember, it is India who refuses to come to the negotiating table without conditions.

Pakistan was robbed of Kashmir 50 years ago. We have done nothing wrong so why should we be bowing to the aggressor? You are ignoring the rise of Hindutva and victimisation of minorities in India. Pakistani artists and sportsmen are being chased out of Hindustan and you are saying we should be holding out an olive branch?

Can you give me any good reasons for the betrayal of our principles and our brothers in Kashmir, other than the peace of the defeated?

Here is a real solution if India is really serious about wanting peace:

Settle the Kashmir dispute which is the major reason for hostility by

a) Holding a plebiscite in Kashmir allowing the people to choose their own destiny. It's called freedom, and as someone who has it I'm sure you can appreciate how important it is.

b) Holding unconditional talks between the two nations with a third party intermediate to decide the future of Kashmir.

Now...does India want peace?

**sabah** · Dec 13, 1999, 04:44 AM

I don�t hate/dislike India, but I for sure dislike or even hate some Indian actions.
I won�t say that I love India or ever will, but I for sure can respect an Indian that�s more important in my books. Lekin I agree with Xtreme ke unless the Kashmir issue is solved there can�t be successful peace process between these two nations.

>> First thing is to realize that we want that change
If that�s on individual level then � realized.

>> Second is to realize that both (not one) party has been responsible for the propogation of enemosity , so that we can own our share of the wrongdoings

Agree.

>> Third is that on matters of mural disagreement , the final decision would not be what any one of the two wants it would be somewhere in between
The biggest disagreement is Kashmir, what would an in between solution be? By the way I agree on this one too.

>> forth , and most important is that..someone has to take the first step Unilaterally....We cannot ask them to do something that we ourselves are not willing to do...someone has to take the first step

Agreed, and I think that Pakistan has been taking this first step for some time now, lekin (almost) every time shooting on LoC, bombing or something else starts and the meetings stops! Does this mean that our political leaders are not interested in peace? or are we not interested in peace? (I seriously doubt this)

Oh and nice topic

**ehsan** · Dec 13, 1999, 10:47 AM

I dislike India but I do not hate/dislike Indian people. In fact many of my friends are Indians. What I dislike about India is its policy of hatred towards Pakistan and more importantly its refusal to solve the Kashmir issue. Solve the Kashmir problem and there could be friendship between the two countries. Give the Kashmiri people the right of self determination. Till then i would distrust and dislike India.

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