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Who do you feel greater loyalty to.....

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    Who do you feel greater loyalty to.....

    ..Pakistani non-Muslims or Indian Muslims?

    (I guess this is a question to pakistani muslims)

    or (for indian muslims)

    pakistani muslims or indian non-muslims..?

    and (for indian non-Muslims)

    pakistani non-Muslims or indian muslims

    (and please be truthful and not just try to be politically correct--unless that is how you honestly feel)

    Me? I feel closer to indian muslims (as long as they are sunnis) than to pakistani non-muslims...for me it is a simple matter.




    [This message has been edited by Asif (edited November 24, 1999).]

    #2
    My faith does not enter into the equation. I feel closer to whom I feel closer to. Whether they are Nakashbanids or Muslims.

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      #3
      I would feel closer to Indian Muslim (again Sunnis only). I dont consider Shias and Ahmedis, Muslims.

      I strongly feel that Parsis, Christians, Shias, Ahmedis, Hindus should be given a choice 1. To convert to Sunni Islam or 2. Move permanently to India.

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        #4
        Peshawari, those are excellent choices, specially the later one. By your argument, all Peshawaris should go and live in Kabul, or learn to speak Punjabi.

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          #5
          Asif:
          There is no choice for Pakistani Non-Muslims.

          Maybe they are so small in number that they could be easily ignored. After all it is Islamic republic of Pakistan.

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            #6
            mohabbat--sorry about that i should include this too: (for pakistani non-Muslims)

            do you feel closer to pakistani muslims or your indian co-religionists?

            i was hoping this would get serious answers...

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              #7
              I feel closer to Pakistanis first, whether they are muslims or non muslims. Choosing between Pakistani non muslims and Indian muslims my choice without a hesitation would be Pakistani non muslim. Pakistan and Pakistanis come first. Tell me who would you choose given the choice between Yousuf Youhanna and Azharuddin----- Yousef Youhanna of course. That's my view.

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                #8

                Ehsan--i feel closer to azharrudin than to youhana. although of course i always want pakistan to win against india; but i dont mind if azhar gets a few!!!

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                  #9
                  Good answer NYAhmadi to the peshawri
                  Anyways since I am an admirer of Muhammad Ali Jinnah (unlike most Pakistanis) I am closer to all Pakistanis whether they be Hindu or any other religion. Jinnah told us that our nation comes first then our religion. Indian muslims love India and hate Pakistan. especially those living in the USA.

                  ---
                  8 years of not Seeing a Indian Movie and DAMN PROUD!!!!

                  [This message has been edited by sabah (edited November 25, 1999).]

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                    #10
                    Hmmm...a real nitty-gritty question.

                    I would like to clear something up first. Asif said in a previous post that Pakistan should be a land for muslims only. I don't know if he meant it to come out that way but I disagree. If they pay the jizya then it is the duty of the state to ensure their lives and property are safeguarded. Remember, the jews fled to muslim Spain when they were being persecuted by the Christians.

                    Again let me deal with the Sunni/Shia issue. I am a member of the Ahl e Sunnah wah Jammah and very proud of it. But I do not hate Shiahs. They derive their thought from the same source as us, Quran and Sunnah, although there are differences. I don't agree with them on certain issues but so what? We can live together.

                    This is part of the reason I now believe it is better to have a secular state rather than a partial islamic one. I do not want to see us playing into the hands of our enemies by getting diverted into fights amongst ourselves over something that happened centuries ago. Why do you think the Indians are always trying to stir the Sunni/Shia issue?

                    Now, to the question,

                    All muslims should feel part of a brotherhood which is unique and excludes non muslims because they have denied Allah and his messenger (SAW). So that is where my loyalty lies and that will never change till the day I die Inshallah.

                    Having said that, I support Ehsan's view about Yousuf Youhanna who is one of my favourite batsmen. Yusuf is loyal to the Pakistan team and there is nothing in islam that stops him from representing Pakistan with such honour. Azharuddin is a traitor to his faith and his wife. He left her and his children for some Indian actress bimbo and I always hope he gets a duck in every match. Yusuf Youhanna plays as a devout Christian for Pakistan. Adulteruddin plays as an adopted Hindu. At least Yusuf is true to himself and his faith unlike Azhar.

                    A real Indian muslim, or any muslim of any land, i.e., one that puts Allah's faith above his nationality will always be my brother above any non muslim. I am a supporter of Osama Bin Laden.


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Request to Moderator,

                      Will please wake up and see how abusive and vulgar language is being used by Fanatic against fellow guppies. I may not agree with the views of Ms. Xtreme or peshawari, but intead of using profanity, I would prefer to convince them with logic or reason.

                      Perhaps you are not aware of where to use your censorship. I have seen you have cesored many posts which did not require any attention at all.

                      Sincerely,

                      FARID M

                      [This message has been edited by Farid (edited November 24, 1999).]

                      Comment


                        #12

                        I'm an Indian non-muslim, so i'd answer that one. To me, religion of my friends is of no concern. Most of my friends at high school were christians, at college, i shared a room with a muslim for a year, until we were alotted single rooms. One of my close friends is a follower of jainism.

                        Tolerance is essential in today's society. High time one understood that most people belong to a particular religion just becoz they happen to be born into it.
                        Simple ain't easy.

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                          #13
                          hmmmmmmmmmm Peshawari sorry to pick on you again you said you dont consider shias muslims..NO one gives **** about what you consider muslim or not shias are muslimss...they believe in quran, they say qalma, they read namazz, and about ahmadies its totaly different. I am follower of Sahi Hadith and quran thats all i dont call my self anything...what ever is in quran and hadith thats Islam and i almost follow it.
                          SUNNI and sheas were never part of islam they were created by others so they dont have any place in islam, only thing we should all muslims follow is QURAN AND HADITH and not what name we wana call our self...to me if you follow quran and hadith your are a muslim...

                          Jaawan

                          ------------------
                          Till next time***K_I_S_S***

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Farid,
                            I’m editing and deleting his posts, and I was thinking of mailing him a warning, just didn’t have time to write a ’serious’ mail.

                            Also the past few days have been very ’interesting’, as the Indian-Pak hatred has grown faster then ever in ’my time’ as a mod. I don’t understand you guy’s logic, we have millions of issues to discuss, lekin the only issue some of the members are interested in, are how to find reasons to hate each other. It’s of course your forum so you guys decide what you want to discuss, lekin topics like ’Pakistan for Muslims or Sunnis’ are so low, Pakistan for every one how loves it and respects it period. How come it’s so difficult to start a serious thread, where we can discuss how we can contribute for the betterment of Pak? Why is so hard to realize that we’ve been given a chance to make a difference though BB’s like this? Khair…

                            Fanatic
                            I’m tiered of editing and deleting your posts, so if you want to keep posting on this forum, change your style, you know the rules!

                            As for the question, what do you mean by loyalty?
                            As a Pakistani I’ll be loyal to Pakistanis regardless of their religion, meaning that when Muslims are being killed in Kashmir or Chechnya etc. I wouldn’t start hating Pakistani Hindus or Christian’s etc. Any thing else would break us up from inside, and we have seen results of internal break ups, unlike many other nations.


                            [This message has been edited by sabah (edited November 25, 1999).]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Sabah ji

                              you have misunderstood my question--i never spoke about hating the non-Muslim Pakistanis--all i am saying is that as a Muslim first and Pakistani second, i feel that my ties of religion with my fellow co-religionists in India are stronger than my ties of nationality with non-Muslim pakistanis. I do not hate non-muslim pakistanis--in fact i like them for being pakistanis a lot-BUT JUST NOT AS MUCH AS A MUSLIM FROM INDIA (OR ANY OTHER MUSLIM COUNTRY). Becoz when you say 'la ilaaha il Allah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam)' you create a bond which is stronger even than that of blood ties. Look, in the battle of Badr and Uhud, many SAhaabas were fighting against their own parents/children/relatives JUST BECOZ THEY REJECTED ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER. That's all I mean.

                              And I dont mean 'Muslims' like mr. a j p kalaam or whatever who is india's missile sicentist but those for whom islam is first, india seconds (ie serious muslims).

                              pakistan zindabad!

                              as for MR.XTREME's statement about non-muslims in pakistan--i agree they should pay jizya and be totally protected as a result thereof; i admit at present they are not treated like they should be. this proves that only a truly islamic state -NOT LIKE THE TALIBAAN!!!--modelled on the Madinan State can provide security for all its citizens. Besides, the purpose of jizya is to glorify Islam...


                              [This message has been edited by Asif (edited November 25, 1999).]

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