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A request to Indians and Pakistanis.

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    A request to Indians and Pakistanis.

    Azam Khan
    [email protected] wrote:

    I rarely post in any newsgroups. When I read this newsgroup it irks
    me to see that how much hatred is in this newsgroup. I am a
    Muslim who visits Texas to see my and some of family
    members. I love my
    country and I am proud to be an Indian. My children most of
    them are
    well placed in India in both govt. and pvt sectors. I have
    never seen
    them hate any hindus or I have not witnessed any of our
    hindu friends
    hate us.

    My children have studied in catholic schools and I am
    very happy to
    note that they have done well. The only hate I see is in
    this newsgroups
    mostly by Indians and Pakistanis living abroad. If all of
    you are so
    well educated and live in one of the most advanced countries
    in the
    world how have you young people have not learnt how to get
    along with
    each others.

    In Houston most of my sons friends are hindus and they get
    along very
    well each one tries to help each other. I have seen both
    Pakistani and
    Indians do business together and work together also helo
    each other out.
    If you ever been to the shops on harwin drive most of the
    business are
    owned by Indians and Pakistanis. It makes me feel so proud
    that I feel
    like shouting and thumping my chest with pride saying that
    these are my
    country men and they are doing so well.
    I hope I do not offend any one if I say that we should
    all get along
    and we have only one life to live why waste it in hating
    each other.

    Azam Khan

    The differences are political rather than personal. Pakistanis have their own political goals and Indians have theirs. BJPs don't come to power without a reason. Kashmir is the big issue. If it can be resolved there is no need for the hatred. As a muslim you should also be concerned about the plight of your brothers. Amnesty International has repoerted the torture and rape of the citizens of Kashmir by the 700,000 strong paramilitaries in Kashmir. We can't just turn a blind eye to it. It is a shame you have chosen to do so just because it doesn't affect you. Hope you have a nice time in Texas while you are there. Give my regards to Mr Gupta lal.


      Xtreme, do not try to create emotions where there are ground for none.Has your Amnesty International reported the frequent massacre of Hindus in Doda and elsewhere in Kashmir by your "freedom-fighters". They butcher families after families and don't spare even the children. When a terrorist is shot dead in a false encounter, it becomes a subject for Human Rights. When the same terrorist kills innocent people, the 'Human Rights' part goes for a six.Are u aware that your 'freedom fighters' have been involved in ethnic cleansing in Kashmir.I know people who have driven out of Srinagar and have become refugees in their own country.
      Please visit for further details.

      I reproduce one article from the site here if it at all helps in getting some dung out of your head.
      The Invisible Refugees
      Nearly 400,000 homeless Kashmiri Pandits

      In the 1989-1991 time period, nearly 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits were expelled from their native Kashmir valley after a combination of violence and explicit threats by Islamic terrorists aided and inspired by Pakistan. In the last decade, India-Pakistan tensions have continued and spiralled, especially over the state of Jammu and Kashmir. The tensions recently culminated in the Kargil invasion by thousands of Pakistani troops and supporting Islamic mercenaries. However, through a decade of continuing violence initiated by Pakistani elements, most of the hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits who have been expelled from their homeland continue to be ignored at the state, national and international level.
      Most of the Pandit refugees, mislabeled as "migrants", live in squalid camps with spiralling health and economic problems. That the Muslim-led state government of Jammu and Kashmir has ignored their plight comes as no surprise since the oppression of Kashmiri Pandits did not start in 1989, but much earlier. Between 1947 and 1989, hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits had left the valley to escape oppression by the Muslim majority.

      It is clear that the return of the nearly half a million Kashmiri Pandits to their native land will not be facilitated simply by the end of Pakistani-inspired terrorism in the state. While a cessation of the targeting of Pandits by Islamic terrorists in the state is the essential first step, an end to the oppression by majority Muslims would be the next essential step to enable the Pandits to return as equal citizens.

      Any other country in India's place would have bombed Pakistan three times over for the way it has been interfering in Kashmir.And you accuse us of high-handedness.Indians by nature are not agressive (you can see it on the cricket field).We don't retaliate unless pushed to the wall.Get it once and for all.
      If Muslims in India are left alone by self-appointed guardians of Islam like you, it would do humanity a world of good.

      [This message has been edited by Some1 (edited November 03, 1999).]


        Dear Azam Khan,

        These are very poignant sentiments.

        I just have one question for you. You said, and I quote:

        “…..all of you are so well educated and live in one of the most advanced countries

        Where did you get this from? Education (measured by degrees) has nothing to do with brotherhood and respect for each other. I have seen many religious bigots and hate-mongers with PhDs and have learnt in my travels that some of the most primitive and underdeveloped cultures in this world are more advanced in terms of respecting people who are not like them. Perhaps the Education of Appreciation is a different category all together, and perhaps that’s what you meant or intended to mean in your post.

        The only was to reduce tension and to live peacefully with respect for each other will come once we abandon our narrow-minded vision of the world. Hatred based upon religion is the worst kind of hatred.



          >Hatred based upon religion is the worst kind of hatred<

          I second that!
          Simple ain't easy.


            Mr Xtreme

            Same old crap, come out of it.

            Dream on *****Kashmir will never be yours****

            Dream on


              Nobody has actually contradicted what I said. Some1 has shown that there are similar views from the other side but that's what I said in the first place. Our differences are political. Doesn't mean they are going to go away. NYA's answer is idealistic and nothing wrong with that. But the real world needs real solutions and nothing will get done by sentiment alone. Businesses for example are not run on sentiments however noble they may appear.

              Still, there is no need to be nasty for the sake of it. We should recognise that we have our differences and not turn it into something personal. There are certainly indians on this forum who have contributed a lot of positive stuff here, like Queer, ZZ and Bombaykid. It's not their fault they're from the other side of the border.

              Then there are monkeys like sajjadm who tend to start screeching and gibbering at around this time, but that's easily handled by flinging a few nuts in his direction.


                HERE WE GO AGAIN


                  Queer and NYA seem to be getting into a mutual admiration club of late.
                  I agree with Xtreme on the point that 'Real world needs real Solutions'.
                  It was the same, when Shiv Sainiks vowed not to allow the Pakistanis to play cricket in India.
                  Some 'learned men' (like Queer and NYA) then said 'Sports and culture should be kept away from Politics' and accused the Sena for its actions.Wonder if they would have said the same thing if their brother/father/son would have been shot dead by Pakistan-trained militants like Major Purshottam (PRO, Indian Army ) was ,yesterday night at Srinagar.
                  Moral of the story : It is very easy to make 'intellectual statements' from the comforts of your arm-chairs.

                  [This message has been edited by Some1 (edited November 04, 1999).]


                    Too true Some1, but with major Purshottam you could have added the innocent Kashmirir men and women killed by the same trigger happy platoon which major Purshottam was commanding.


                      Dear Some1.

                      I apologize and retract my earlier words. I would say let’s kill all the Muslims and all the Hindus (better put them through meat grinders and make kababs out of them.. I will have a Hindu Quarter Pounder Please). Kill everyone (except Ahmadis).

                      Happy now?

                      And Yes. Religious hatred is really very admirable quality in any human being. I hate all religions (that’s my definition of religious hatred). Now that both India and Pakistan have nukes. I truly believe that they should use it on each other. It will solve a lot of problems – illiteracy, healthcare, population explosion, and finally Kashmir. I hope you agree!



                        >'Sports and culture should be kept away from Politics' and accused the Sena for its actions<

                        dunno where you got that one from, all i said was religion as a basis for hatred leads to the worst disasters.

                        If you'll check a few old posts on the sports section, you'll find me supporting Kapil Dev's views. But i'm no admirer of Shiv sena, they interfere too much in other's personal matters.

                        and thanx for classifying me among the "learned men", i'll let you know when i graduate.
                        Simple ain't easy.



                          When the USA scraps it's military hardware and closes down it's weapons research in Nevada I will buy a John Lennon record, stick a flower in my hair and head round to your place where we can all join hands and sing 'Imagine'. Queer's invited as well.

                          your xtremely hopeful
                          Mr Xtreme


                            Dear Mr. Xtreme,

                            If you believe that USA’s possessing and making nuclear weapons is a justification for religious hatred among Indians and Pakistanis for each other, you are not ready for John Lenon’s music.

                            On another note, USA has 99% literacy rate, pretty decent healthcare for its citizens, all the freedoms you can enjoy, and finally clean drinking water. It will be nice to see Pakistan and India both come only halfway (and respecting each other’s religion will be a good start). Until that happens, listen to Mukeesh and Noor Jahan. If you like, I will send you some good old albums!


                              Indian polititions should first stop debating on whether every action is "secular" or not. Do you notice the amount of time spent on that. In the US there are hate crimes almost every month, but nobody starts doubting the secular credentials of the country. So the point is SEPERATE RELIGION FROM THE STATE TOTALLY !!! Equality for all and APPEASEMENT OF NONE !!
                              As far as India and Pakistan are concerned, I agree with Mr. Xtreme that we have huge political differences and these wont change so easily. So the conflict will continue. Everything is so different about us. Our views on Secularism, Democracy...etc. There's not too much hope for India-Pakistan friendship.