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Is there any chance of Pak-India friendship?

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    Is there any chance of Pak-India friendship?

    Here are some of the responses.

    No. Definitely not in the present scenario. As long as Pakistan schools
    teach hatred towards Hindus thereby corrupting the impressionable minds
    of children, the future of Pakistan, there will not be any peace and friendship
    with India. As long as Pakistanis are brainwashed (in madrasas and also
    regular schools) that Hindus are their No-1 enemies, as long as Pakistan
    owes to wage a thousand years of Jihad on Hindus, there will not be any
    friendship. As long as Pakistan does not accept the fact that the brave
    soldiers defending Bharatmata are not just Hindus but also Muslims, Sikhs,
    Christians, Buddhists, Jains and all others that reside in Hindustan.
    Hindustanis does not just mean Hindus but also mean those people of all
    faiths that live in Hindustan. Until Pakistan stops calling Indians as Hindus
    and realize that religious fanaticism has no place not only in India but
    anywhere in the world, there will not be any friendship with India. I am
    asking all the intelligent people how India can be friends with Pakistan when
    it is trying to break up India by supporting and promoting terrorism?
    Received from: [email protected]


    Yes, there is chance for Pak-India friendship... do we have a choice? One
    cannot choose its neighbors nor can one change its history... Let's face that
    the biggest problem between India and Pakistan is trust. And things like
    Kargil hardly help trust. Only way for a peaceful coexistence is that Pakistan
    stops military support to Kashmir and other militants in India and India
    slowly brings normalcy to Indian part of Kashmir and has a phased
    withdrawal of its troops.

    This two are the main issues realistically. We all know the militancy in
    Indian Kashmir is not home grown. Kashmiris may have some issues of not
    liking being under Indian rule but guns are not the right way. Guns have
    never solved a problem. India won freedom from mighty Britain without
    guns.. neither does Pakistan's blatant interference in valley and other places
    through ISI help in any way. India is a strong country... it is very tough to
    break it... even bigger countries can defeat India in war but cannot rule over
    India. we will never let them....

    Do you think a country that fought against mighty British Empire give up its
    integrity and freedom within 50 years of existence? Does freeing Kashmir
    solve Pakistan's purpose? What happens to remaining 100+ million Muslims
    in India? Do you have a plan for them? Religion grows because of people's
    faith and that's why this world has Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and
    Hindus. It is wrong to make it basis for nation creation or nations identity.

    Democracy is a great power. We have undertaken this bold task in India. It
    is in Pakistan's long-term interest to let India remain democracy and live
    peacefully with its neighbor. Nothing Pakistan can do to diminish this hard
    reality that India is bigger than Pakistan and will remain so. Size gives India
    a natural advantage. But if Pakistan has India, India has China, China has
    Russia, Russia has US....

    But mature nations like US and Canada, France and Germany, Russia and
    China coexist peacefully as neighbors. They don't interfere with each other.
    So only possible way out for both India and Pakistan is for Pakistan, its
    defense, its ISI, its people stop supporting Militancy in India and India in
    turn remove troops from Kashmir and let Kashmiris run the show as a good
    Indian state.... Kashmir is a wrong place for India and Pakistan to search
    their national identity.

    If you really care about your fellow Muslims in India, the Pakistani people,
    press and its leaders should please leave India alone and stop interfering.
    Least Pakistani press can do is stop anti India and pro Mujahideen articles.
    It doesn't help our nations neither Pakistan nor India.
    Received from: [email protected]


    As long as the dirty politicians use Kashmir for their political advantages,
    friendship between the two countries will remain importance. There are
    higher priority problems dogging the two countries for decades. People and
    the media must force the politicians to focus on these core issues. Just
    because we fought few wars, it does not mean that we have to be enemies
    forever. Look at Europe. Germany once the most hated country in Europe is
    an active participant in EU. Take the case of England and Argentina. It is
    not long ago they fought a war in Falklands. Now their relationship is
    warmer than ever. There is no South East Asian country that would like to
    shake hands with Japan 20 years ago. Many of them witnessed ruthless
    killings in the hands of Japanese soldiers. Now invariably every country in
    the region is in an all-out war to secure Japan's confidence and to attract
    investments. They all had one purpose in their mind PROGRESS FOR THE
    NATION. It isn't bad! Think about it.
    Received from: Prem Kumar [email protected]


    Any chance that India will accept Pakistan's friendship? None. Zero. Nada.
    Shunya. Never again will we trust Pakistan. Our only goal will be to break up
    Pakistan and remove this blot on humanity once and for all. Forget Kashmir.
    It will be fully integrated into the Secular, Democratic Republic of India.
    Once Pakistan is dismantled we will develop friendship with Sindhudesh,
    Balochistan and NWFP (Pashtoonistan) that will all become independent
    nations.

    Pakistan has proved to be a totally unreliable entity. It was born of treason
    by Muhammad Ali Jinnah and like-minded traitors and it continues to be a
    treacherous country that the whole world now despises including all the
    Muslim countries, none of which expressed support for Pakistan. Not even
    the Taliban supported Pakistan. The presence of Afghan mercenaries in
    Kargil proved to be an absolute myth.

    What chance is there for trusting relations with a country that refuses to
    claim the bodies of its own soldiers? And lies to its own people.

    One aspect of India that was cleared as a result of Kargil was that the 200
    million Muslims of India have unflinching loyalty to their motherland, India.
    Not one act of betrayal or treason. The country is now fully integrated. We
    are Indians first. Muslims, Parsis, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and Hindus,
    agnostics and atheists next or not important at all. We are proud children of
    the next economic and military superpower, our beloved India. Pakistan will
    be history. Sorry, Pakistanis. We tried. We trusted you. You betrayed us.
    Sayonara. Wish I could say it was good knowing you. I cannot.
    Received from: [email protected]


    India and Pakistan friendship will only be possible when Pakistan stops
    preaching to it's people to hate India and propagate utter falsehoods and
    pernicious lies about India. Fed on Pakistan official propaganda and media, I
    do not fault the Pakistanis for hating India. India has been waiting for
    friendship, Pakistan needs to decide.
    Received from: Rajiv Shorey [email protected]


    Hmmmmm... very interesting. I guess we should not "try" to be friends. If we
    even remain responsible enemies, it will be good for both the countries. Let's
    be enemies, why have "friendship cup" and things like that and make
    mockery of the word friendship? May be when both the countries become
    economically strong and prevailing commercial sense forces us to be
    "friends", we will be friends. I can't see that happening in my lifetime. But
    yes, we can get over cold war, so can this "friendship-war".

    I am an Indian and I naturally am a nationalist. I have seen my generation
    and I know that an overwhelming 30 percent are indifferent to Pakistan,
    another 50 percent are nationalist like me deriving reason with reference to
    our own national interests and it is only for remaining 20 percent that being
    anti-Pakistan is being Indian. Unfortunately, it is only that 20 percent that
    get the media attention. (Ask how many people ransacked Dilip Kumar's
    house, how many threw stones at PIA office?)

    But despite this numbers, my understanding is that there is more anti-India
    (synonym with anti-Hindu) feelings in Pakistan. (Again that might just be
    what I catch from media). So, I guess, lets just try to be responsible enemies.

    Received from: Nileshkumar Khandelwal [email protected]


    #2
    Beware of peace traps
    (Sultan Shahin on farcical Pak democracy) (From the pages TOI )

    The Kargil crisis hit us like a bolt from the blue. It has now been resolved. But the core problem — Pakistani establishment — remains. Whether we like it or not, we will have to continue to deal with it in the foreseeable future.

    We must therefore seriously study the imperatives of Pakistani society, its politics and its economics, and the role of the military-bureaucratic-feudal-industrial oligarchy that rules that country.

    For the uninitiated, one of the mysteries of Kargil is how a ‘failing’ state running a ‘failed’ economy could afford such a hugely expensive misadventure. Pakistan’s dying economy is on artificial respiration being provided by the International Monetary Fund for the seventeenth time. Most of its budgetary allocations are sucked up by debt servicing and defence. During a recent visit I saw the effects of deep recession even in Lahore, the capital of Punjab, the most prosperous state of the country which alone corners almost 70 per cent of the national resources by virtue of its political and military clout.

    Occupying new areas in Kashmir or going to war with India was the last thing on the mind of the Pakistani people I met. In fact, I found common people in Karachi, Peshawar, Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Lahore eagerly expecting Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to fulfil his election promise of ‘speedy normalisation’ of relations with India. Several people told me that they considered Kashmir merely as an obstacle to their progress and prosperity.

    That the Pakistani people do not care for ‘Jehad’ in Kashmir should not be in doubt. Never mind the TV pictures of Jehadists shouting inflammatory slogans on the streets of Lahore. These people have enormous resources and can organise any number of street demonstrations using the unemployed youth. But, as Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz pointed out on the BBC programme ‘Hard Talk’ (July 6): “They have never been able to win more than two, three or four seats in the National Assembly.”

    And yet the Pakistani establishment could afford to embark on a seemingly suicidal venture that would further deepen their economic crisis, completely oblivious of popular sentiments. This paradox can only be explained by the fact that it is only a small group of people, among them politicians of all hues, bureaucrats and army officers, apart from industrialists and feudal lords (waderas) who virtually own Pakistan.

    The notorious 22 families that ran the country until the sixties have now expanded to 38, largely through splits to avoid nationalisation in the Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto era. Members of these families are known as robber barons of Pakistan. None of these families have come up by dint of sheer hard labour or business acumen. There are no rags-to-riches stories in Pakistan. These families have grown from small-time businesses in pre-partition India to their present positions of eminence largely through manipulating the government machinery, banking systems, land grab and unimaginable exploitation of the poor (known as haarees, the defeated and conquered).

    No wonder they were such avid believers in the two-nation theory that led to the creation of Pakistan in 1947.

    In order to justify the provocative title of his recent book, Who Owns Pakistan?, the country’s foremost investigative economic journalist Shahid-ur-Rehman presented some facts that give us an idea of the nature of Pakistani establishment and the extent of their power and wealth. Just one landlord Wadera Ghulam Mohammad Mehr owned 100,000 acres and Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi owns 80,000 acres of land.

    The House of Habib has about 90 units in its fold. Mian Mohammad Mansha is director on boards of 45 companies. Nawaz Sharif’s Ittefaq controls at least 29 industrial units. Sadruddin Hashwani has 25 companies. Monnoos have 18 textile and sugar mills. And so on. One can have some idea of how this banana republic actually functions from the following:

    * Only 1,500 individuals and firms make use of 80 per cent of the total bank credits. Rs 130 billion are stuck in bad loans and Rs 8.2 billion have been written off. While the public demands recovery of the stuck up loans, the government has come out with schemes to reschedule the loans and grant new loans to the same defaulters.

    * A sugar mill set up with tax payers’ money at an estimated cost of Rs 300 million was sold to one of these robber barons for a token price of rupee one.

    * A business shark managed to secure 38 loans totalling Rs 3.5 billion through fake collateral, escaped when found out and is living happily abroad.

    * An unknown entity was granted a loan of Rs 1.18 billion without any collateral on a telephone call from Islamabad and the banker who sanctioned the loan ended up as a federal minister, instead of ending up in prison.

    * All five loans worth Rs 500 million of a robber baron heading the Pakistan chamber of commerce committee for revival of sick industrial units were written off.

    * The common citizens bear the burden of 100 different taxes prevalent in the country but the super-rich are provided escape routes of exemptions and tax holidays, 180 of them in the payment of income tax alone.

    Who Owns Pakistan is full of similar details. Author Shahid-ur-Rehmaan concludes: “It is these people... who own Pakistan, for whom the system works. Their true worth is not known even to the government. My investigations have revealed that the top 44 business groups own assets worth Rs 500 billion or equal to the size of Pakistan’s budget. Yet they pay marginal income tax. In several cases no tax at all.”

    If we want to live in peace, we will just have to strengthen the hands of the haarees and keep defeating the waderas and the chowdhuries comprehensively, as we have done now in Kargil. The defeat of the oligarchy in 1971 liberated Bangladesh. The present decisive defeat in Kargil might help liberate Pakistan.

    Any deal with the conquerors of Pakistan, on any terms, no matter how seemingly alluring, would be nothing more than a trap. We have fallen in this trap before. Let us beware now.


    Comment


      #3
      Why we need a friendship when we can be good enemies.

      Fata Morgana

      Comment


        #4
        Fata i agree with you, but peace is good, anyways i think its not the countries its up to the people if they can be friends with each other then india and pakistan can be friends, its not up to the governments to be friendly, but people must be friendly to each other to see some friendly results dont you think!

        Jaawan

        ------------------
        Till next time***K_I_S_S***

        Comment


          #5
          In Houston, Indians and Pakistanis hang around together a lot. There is some competition in who dresses better, who has a nicer car (of course, we're South Asians here!) but not too much political friction. I think when we leave the subcontinent we start to realize how much we actually have in common. The Pakistanis are a bit more flashy and boasting, while the Indians are putting their money in the bank and keeping a low profile, but, hey, we've also got a lot in common. No wonder the Americans lump us all together!

          Zara

          Comment


            #6
            To Fata Morgana
            Friendship is beautiful and hard to earn and Paki Govt is too lazy for hard work so they are happy to earn enemies perhaps that is the reason Paki Govt. have made your country as the corrupt, bankrupt and made it as the biggest beggar.
            To Jawan
            Its important also for the two Govt. to be friendly otherwise there can't be a durable peace in reigion. Before the indians were quite friendly with Pakis but the Kargil attack has changed the whole scenography among the indians in India and this feeling is going to affect the feelings of NRI's too.
            To Zaraatif
            We are common only in looks but mentally and intellectually we are two diffirent worlds. After the partion the both country embark on a different path and that has changed us so we may look same but nothing else is the same.

            Freindship is a trust that has to earned. For India and Pakistan to become friends is impossible after the Kargill episode but we can live in peace if Pakistan gives up first supporting the terrorist once that is done it will lay the fround for a peaceful talk on Kashmir issue. As long as Pakistan is actively engaged in terrorist activities there never be peace in the region forget about being friends its a distant dream

            [This message has been edited by Aryan (edited July 31, 1999).]

            Comment


              #7
              aryan,
              Are we really so different? I don't think so. The feelings of difference are not as strong for those outside of Pakistan, I think. I'm not sure where you are, but this is something I have noticed.
              Zara

              Comment


                #8
                That is precisely the point.

                If Indians make statements like zaraatif is making we are told that we should accept two nation theory (whatever it is and never mind if two nation theory became two-country theory and then three-country theory in 71) and that Pak is a distinct state.

                The entire problem between india and Pak is of lack of ideology in Pak and lack of ideological flexibility in India. Let me explain what i mean. i feel that pak as a state lacks clear purpose and ideology for its existence itself. so they have made themselves an antithesis of india in every respect. now this enemity combined with cultural similarities make pakistani newspapers composed of some spitting venom against india as well as some talking peace and friendship, an interesting reading.

                However, what matters is leadership in Pak. it remains committedly anti-indian. paki army is not raised to fight against china or iran. army eats up 26% revenue of pak, which is definitely not a rich country. now if army does not do anything, it is difficult for them to justify why they are getting so much money. nawaz sharif was only leader who dared to ask people to vote for him in the name of friendship with india and surprisingly people voted for peace. despite jamaat protests, lahore bus-yatra evoked good response on either side. it remains a mystery whuy he went for kargil. if indeed he was a puppet in hands of army, indians should rather talk to army which is center of power and if he was dishonest, indians have no reason to talk seriously,

                Comment


                  #9

                  jamaat people are just a bunch of nuts.no one in pakistan pays any attention to them,but you people keep bringing up everything about them to serve your propoganda junk.as for sharif,he is a moron.in 92 he was barking about how benazir was soft with india and very friendly towards rajiv gandhi etc and in 96 he was like we want peace and then he went and exploded a couple of nuclear bombs and took his sorry ass into kargil with no full commitment and backing.so lets not look at sharif as our angel of peace because he isent anywhere near that.hes a punk.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ufff, i cannot belive u all Pakistanis.

                    Remember, its always India who attack Pakistan.....India cannot be friendly to Pakistan, i live abroad i also know many indians but sorry to say they r not to call friend.

                    i will write more about this topic soon so keep eye on this forum.

                    but before i go i want to ask those indian who think india is repecting other then Hindu's
                    can u tell me how many muslim get good civil service job in india. (on merit)
                    talking nice word does not make nice human to become a nice human V to do nice things
                    PAKISTAN ZINDABA.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      On ur opinion that India invaded Pak everytime, read an article by Pakistani Air martial Asgar khan

                      http://www.pak.org/gupshup/Forum4/HTML/000567.html

                      Comment


                        #12
                        wELL This topic keeps on comin up a LOT Of times....wel i can think of a LOT of muslims who have important positions in india...lets see Dr abdul kalam(head of drodo)umm mohamad azarudin( i tihnk former cpt of indian criket team), Rasheeduddin Khan(directer of indian inst of federal studies)The person wo lead the first indian expidition to antartica in 1981 was SZ Qasim, richest indian is muslim.
                        NOW...u think im lieing?well then u must have some sort of trusting problem

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