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Pakistan: Gunmen kill 11 minority Hazara coal miners in Baluchistan

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    #16
    Our entire country held vigils and united in support of the Quebec mosque victims, were you able to do that for the poor miners who actually are Muslims. Poor starving people engaged in extremely hard labor to support their families. Shame on IK for not doing enough. This is what humanity looks like

     

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      #17
      Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

      The video I posted about the undercover mosque is many ordinary muslims, they do not object, protest or stop attending the hateful sermons. They vote by repeatedly attending the sermons. That extremist ideology exists because members of the society consume it. Frankly the ideology of that preacher is way worse than even Nazis.

      If you feel that there are many moderates than they need to take their mosques back from extremists and should make their voices heard.

      What are your views on integration and making friends with people outside the faith?

      PS. I am not a moderator, never havebeen, never will be.
      I believe we need to get a consensus on what you quoted earlier. There will be no closure if you keep on adding more irrelevant material without clarifying your previous claims. I respect that it is your choice not to answer to anything but then what really is your reason to be here. Your comment was:

      "Funny when the same people go to no Muslim countries they vehemently cite human rights and want to be treated even better than the nationals" and I humbly requested to provide a proof. Your video link did not provide any proof and then instead of providing a proof, you jumped on another band wagon.


      There are a lot of extremists in the world and not only Muslims. For me, it is getting apparent that you also have extremist views. Your comment about "...way worse than even Nazis" shows your lack of understanding of Nazis' philosophies and your tendency to push false narratives. If you look around yourself, living in Canada, you can get your answer right away but only if you are willing to see the truth. Hundred and thousands of Muslims live around you who do not have such views. I have lived most of my life working and traveling to different countries, Muslim and otherwise, and I can count the number of Muslims who I have met with extremist views on the fingers of my one hand. Off course, there are extremists whom I haven't come in contact with and they exist. But so do other extremist organizations. There are still members of KKK, Neo-Nazis, and other fascistic and extremist organizations in the world. Certain countries regularly commit acts of wire crime and have apartheid policies. So yes, there are problems that need to be solved but the governments, including Canadian, are not trying to solve them as it is not in their broader interest to solve them.

      Your question about my views on religious integration reeks of deeply rooted bias. Some of my best friends are from India, and although they are followers of Hindu religion, it has never been an issue. On the night of 26/11, I came to sit with my Indian friends while the events were unfolding on the street. I have actual friends from many different nationalities and regardless of their nationalities and religious beliefs, the common beliefs based on humanity were our binding force.

      Your mindset is part of the problem, where you believe in false narratives and then without any investigation propagate it. Your comment on IK reflect the same, because you don't have any idea why he did not visit the affected and instead of finding the reasons, you preferred to malign him.

      Unfortunately, holding vigils to support the berieved means little, when the elected commit and support committing the most heinous of crimes.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

        The video I posted about the undercover mosque is many ordinary muslims, they do not object, protest or stop attending the hateful sermons. They vote by repeatedly attending the sermons. That extremist ideology exists because members of the society consume it. Frankly the ideology of that preacher is way worse than even Nazis.

        If you feel that there are many moderates than they need to take their mosques back from extremists and should make their voices heard.

        What are your views on integration and making friends with people outside the faith?

        PS. I am not a moderator, never havebeen, never will be.
        Firstly when they continue going to mosque without confronting the hateful Imam shows complicity. Nazis think whites are superior, Imam says that the worst terrorist Muslim is better than any non Muslim, isn’t that a claim to superiority? The genocide of Shias, the fatwas to slaughter Shias. Rape their women and enslave their women is worse than any Nazi slogan


        If you have non Muslim friends than according to the Imam you are not following
        his religious sermons

        yes these people in the video seem entitled to better treatment than locals, as locals would pay a heavy price for bigotry yet these people can show extreme hatred for non Muslims, call for killings of gays. Claim terrorists are better than locals and still enjoy in many cases welfare cheque, free housing, millions in health care, parks, gardens.

        Comment


          #19
          Unfortunately, our security establishment has been using these sectarian terrorists for their regional strategic purposes and has been turning a blind eye to the violence they inflict on the innocent.

          Comment


          • Bobby1
            Bobby1 commented
            Editing a comment
            krash the hundreds of students and faculty who were involved in the lynching of Mashal Khan and hundreds of clerics who gave fatwas against anyone who stands against lynching were not affiliated with security forces, they were supposedly the most elite mature citizens studying at Uni. Each and everyone of us bears the responsibility for got goes on in that society.

          • krash
            krash commented
            Editing a comment
            I am referring to this specific incident which has been claimed by a militant organization that, allegedly, has ties to the security establishment.

          • krash
            krash commented
            Editing a comment
            Your general point is correct that intolerance in our society has widespread roots.

            But there too you can see the role of the establishment in fanning the flames for their own purposes.

          #20
          The problem is pure sectarian not a political at all, despite it being planted for a political reason.

          The solution is not that difficult. the establishment must stop nurturing the snakes. They'll only bite you whether by attacking APC or hazaras or someone else.

          But no that wont happen i guess ever. Wait for the next event
          Attitude is more important than facts.
          "Life is 10% what happens to us..and 90% of how we react to it"

          Comment


            #21
            It is India that is behind the killings. It was one of several attempts to create sectarian tensions. But the opposite happened, because sunni and shia leaders in Pakistan know better and understand the nuances. CPEC is a thorn in the eye of regional and international adversaries of China and they keep trying to throw a wrench into the progress being made. If the goal was to kill Shias only, then that is far easier to do in Karachi where 10-15 people are shot daily anyway. Looking at the timeline of attacks on Shias in Quetta and nearby areas, it becomes clear that it started after India got foothold in Afghanistan. Once the fencing of the border completes later this year, I’m quite hopeful such attacks will stop.

            Comment


              #22
              Originally posted by decentGuy View Post
              It is India that is behind the killings. It was one of several attempts to create sectarian tensions. But the opposite happened, because sunni and shia leaders in Pakistan know better and understand the nuances. CPEC is a thorn in the eye of regional and international adversaries of China and they keep trying to throw a wrench into the progress being made. If the goal was to kill Shias only, then that is far easier to do in Karachi where 10-15 people are shot daily anyway. Looking at the timeline of attacks on Shias in Quetta and nearby areas, it becomes clear that it started after India got foothold in Afghanistan. Once the fencing of the border completes later this year, I’m quite hopeful such attacks will stop.

              When an abusive husband hits his wife he does not accept responsibility but says to her, "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO." Same it is very typical to blame the most heineous crimes on alleged foreign powers, this hate and violence is an inside job period..... Did Indians go to these peoples houses and ask them to participate in a hate protest??
              Pakistan: Anti-Shia protests shake Karachi as fears of sectarian violence grips country - This comes after some major Shia leaders in the country allegedly made disparaging remarks against Islam in a televised broadcast of an Ashura procession last month, according to media reports.

              Comment


                #23
                Here is the video. Nope not India, not USA just ordinary folks.
                 

                Comment


                  #24
                  Those 2020 protests in Karachi were not against Shias, but against speeches that were also condemned by Shia leaders. The reporting was intentionally aimed at spreading disinformation to create sectarian tensions. Existence of such disinformation campaigns twisting the truth to serve an agenda, is well established.

                  Comment


                    #25
                    Originally posted by decentGuy View Post
                    It is India that is behind the killings. It was one of several attempts to create sectarian tensions. But the opposite happened, because sunni and shia leaders in Pakistan know better and understand the nuances. CPEC is a thorn in the eye of regional and international adversaries of China and they keep trying to throw a wrench into the progress being made. If the goal was to kill Shias only, then that is far easier to do in Karachi where 10-15 people are shot daily anyway. Looking at the timeline of attacks on Shias in Quetta and nearby areas, it becomes clear that it started after India got foothold in Afghanistan. Once the fencing of the border completes later this year, I’m quite hopeful such attacks will stop.
                    I'm not in favor of pinning everything on India and slide it under the rug. Not owning a problem is the peek level of incompetence.


                    Lets say it is India. Then how is it freely happening in our country? Again and again and again...

                    Just to get the facts straight, Hazaras killing is not a new thing. It has happened very regularly in atleast 3 past governments which makes it more than a decade. And that too very mercilessly. Like stopping the bus, taking them out and just shoot right there. Pretty sure if this time if they had not turned into protest, this would have been a forgotten case as well
                    Attitude is more important than facts.
                    "Life is 10% what happens to us..and 90% of how we react to it"

                    Comment


                      #26
                      Originally posted by decentGuy View Post
                      Those 2020 protests in Karachi were not against Shias, but against speeches that were also condemned by Shia leaders. The reporting was intentionally aimed at spreading disinformation to create sectarian tensions. Existence of such disinformation campaigns twisting the truth to serve an agenda, is well established.
                      Protestors were making violent threats and yelling slogans against Shias. Why such bigotry and intolerance

                      I was reading a report that 95 percent of sectarian violence is directed against Shias in this world.

                      Time to accept that there is a problem of extreme intolerance. Bigotry and extremism

                      And then to work on it thru education and dialogue and taking religion back at home and not in government and politics

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Originally posted by SID_NY View Post

                        I'm not in favor of pinning everything on India and slide it under the rug. Not owning a problem is the peek level of incompetence.


                        Lets say it is India. Then how is it freely happening in our country? Again and again and again...

                        Just to get the facts straight, Hazaras killing is not a new thing. It has happened very regularly in atleast 3 past governments which makes it more than a decade. And that too very mercilessly. Like stopping the bus, taking them out and just shoot right there. Pretty sure if this time if they had not turned into protest, this would have been a forgotten case as well
                        I will still call killing of Hazaras a new thing. It is cheap to always blame Pakistan but realistically speaking, India is a far more resourceful enemy especially after having a foothold in Afghanistan. Most of the times Indian plans are countered such as dismantling of Kulbhushan Jadhav network and capturing him. It was a big achievement. However, sometimes things slip through and tragedies happen.

                        Comment


                        • SID_NY
                          SID_NY commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Try figuring out where is this Hazaras killing coming from. I'll explain later

                        #28
                        Originally posted by decentGuy View Post

                        I will still call killing of Hazaras a new thing. It is cheap to always blame Pakistan but realistically speaking, India is a far more resourceful enemy especially after having a foothold in Afghanistan. Most of the times Indian plans are countered such as dismantling of Kulbhushan Jadhav network and capturing him. It was a big achievement. However, sometimes things slip through and tragedies happen.
                        Pakistan's intelligence and security agencies are absolved because "India, India".

                        Tell me one thing:

                        If a white extremist came and beat you up regularly and this last time also raped your wife, would you be OK since Biden or Trudeau whathaveyou don't support white nationalism and FBI / Police wasn't involved directly?

                        I bet that your alphabet soup muslim organizations be protesting in the streets against police negligence?


                        This is the problem with Pakistan with blaming everything on unseen halai makhlooq. It made me remember the Shahzad Roy song Laga Re where he asks this old guy how will things improve and he replies that leave everything to Allah.


                        I'm encouraged that Imran Khan hasn't allowed blasphemy law loot and plunder fests by molvis who burnt property in Zardari and Nawaz time but this situation isn't acceptable. The safety of life and property is one of the core responsibilities of any government including the ones in Pakistan.

                        Comment


                        • decentGuy
                          decentGuy commented
                          Editing a comment
                          There are several neighborhoods where crime rates are high but police do not pull all their resources in those neighborhoods. I do not blame the police for that because I know of limited resources. But if police knew date/time/location of a crime in advance, yet chose to look the other way as happened during attack in Washington DC, then I will blame them.

                        #29
                        Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

                        Firstly when they continue going to mosque without confronting the hateful Imam shows complicity. Nazis think whites are superior, Imam says that the worst terrorist Muslim is better than any non Muslim, isn’t that a claim to superiority? The genocide of Shias, the fatwas to slaughter Shias. Rape their women and enslave their women is worse than any Nazi slogan


                        If you have non Muslim friends than according to the Imam you are not following
                        his religious sermons

                        yes these people in the video seem entitled to better treatment than locals, as locals would pay a heavy price for bigotry yet these people can show extreme hatred for non Muslims, call for killings of gays. Claim terrorists are better than locals and still enjoy in many cases welfare cheque, free housing, millions in health care, parks, gardens.
                        It is funny that you make a comment, make a few assumptions and then make a conclusion yourself. If you read through your posts, this is your consistent habit.

                        How did you gather that I need to follow this man's ignorance. I never said that I subscribe to this mans' ideas. Please refrain from forces your biased views onto others.

                        It is apparent that you are not familiar with fascist Nazi's philosophy. White supremacy was one of the the least of their crimes. I would strongly advise you to refrain from belittling the suffering of millions. If you need help, I can suggest you some credible resources.

                        The murder of Hazaras is indeed a tragedy. It is government's primary responsibility to ensure the safety of its citizens and government has failed in this regard. However, the situation in Baluchistan is complex. I expect escalation of violence in Baluchistan in the coming days. The CPEC is expected to increase China's economic strength and U.S. is not going to allow this to happen. Hence, using India and extremist elements that have already been utilized in Iraq and Syria, insurgency and terrorism will be promoted in Baluchistan.

                        However, despite the extremely costly efforts to incite religious hatred, overall, in a country with a population of more than 200 million, majority of the people understand the truth. Despite a few incidences here and there, there is no ground level animosity between Sunni's and Shia's in Pakistan. Almost 20-30% of my office staff in Karachi was Shia and then there were a few Hindus and Christians. All were working together peacefully.

                        Comment


                        • decentGuy
                          decentGuy commented
                          Editing a comment
                          The credit goes to Shia and Sunni leaders of Pakistan who are the bulwark against such conspiracies.

                        #30
                        Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post


                        When an abusive husband hits his wife he does not accept responsibility but says to her, "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO." Same it is very typical to blame the most heineous crimes on alleged foreign powers, this hate and violence is an inside job period..... Did Indians go to these peoples houses and ask them to participate in a hate protest??
                        No one believes in Indian news channels. Most have become a laughing stock of the world. Just search the topic and all Indian news channels will come up with this news.

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