Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

    Facts about the pre-Muslim ancestors of Pakistanis:

    1. The word/term "Hindu/Hinduism" is a recent construct. It were the
    Muslim invaders who for the first time in history imposed this foreign
    term in South Asia to the countless distinct local religions. Not a
    single pre-Muslim era Brahman, Buddhist, Jain, or any other South
    Asian scripture/inscription mentions the word "Hindu/Hinduism".

    2. Before the advent of Islam, the majority of people in the region of
    Pakistan were Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and Animists/Pagans/Shamanists.
    Brahmanists/Shaivites were a minority in Pakistan. Harappans ate beef,
    buried the dead, had no Hindu temples/idols/deities, etc. RigVedic
    Aryans forbade idolatory, ate beef, sacrificed cows, had no caste
    system, most Hindu deities were absent among them, etc. Under Persian
    rule, Zoroastrianism started to spread. Similarly, Greek Paganism
    spread under the Greeks. Asoka brought Buddhism, which was later also
    propagated along with Zoroastrianism and Animism/Shamanism/Paganism
    under the Bactrians, Sakas, Parthians, and Kushans. White Huns
    (Iranian Huns/Hepthalites) were not very fond of Buddhism.

    3. A significant minority of Pakistanis are descendents of Arab,
    Iranian, Turkic, Mughal and Afghan invaders/migrants, who just like
    the rest of the ancestors of Pakistanis were Zoroastrians,
    Animists/Pagans/Shamanists, and Buddhists before Islam.

    4. Pre-1947 region of present-day Pakistan only had 15% non-Muslims,
    out of which half were Sikhs. Many of remaining half that were Hindus
    were actual migrants from the region of present day India during the
    British rule. For example, most of the Hindus in pre-1947 Karachi had
    migrated from Gujarat/Rajasthan during British rule because of
    Karachi's economic boom then.


    On the pre-1947 non-Muslim population in present day region of
    Pakistan:

    1. W. Punjab: 9% Hindu, 11% Sikh
    2. Sindh: 10% Hindu, 5% Sikh
    3. NWFP: 2.5% Hindu, 2.5% Sikh
    4. Baluchistan: 3% Hindu

    Other Sources:

    According to the UN and other respected organizations, 12-24 million
    is the total estimate of migrations from both India and Pakistan
    (East Pakistan included) of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs combined at the
    time of partition!!! So if Hindus and Sikhs are taken as 50% of that
    figure, since there was an almost equal exchange of population, that
    would make about 6-12 million Hindus-Sikhs in both East and West
    Pakistan that migrated to India. Now, we know that there was almost
    an equal (50% each) number of migrants leaving East and West Pakistan
    (although Hindu population in East Pakistan was higher), that would
    make the Hindu-Sikh population in West Pakistan about 3-6 million.
    Now we know that West Pakistan's population at that time was about 25-
    30 million which makes the total Hindu-Sikh population about 12-20%
    (+ add the current 1.5%) in West Pakistan before partition. Also, it
    is estimated that out of the non-Muslim population in West Pakistan,
    +40% were Sikhs, so that leaves Hindus with even lesser numbers. We
    know that Sikhs do not consider themselves as Hindus and they are
    fighting for independence from India.

    References:

    Check your local library on the UN statistics on the country's
    history of population demography, it will also confirm this. Other
    sources such as the World Almanac clearly states: "More than 12
    MILLION Hindu & Moslem refugees crossed the India-Pakistan borders in
    a mass transferral of some of the 2 peoples during 1947; about
    200,000 were killed in communal fighting". Also the Library of
    Congress states: "The most conservative estimates of the casualties
    were 250,000 dead and 12 MILLION to 24 MILLION refugees".


    On the meaning and origins of Hinduism:

    "The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 AD by
    British writers. " [Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519 ]

    "The term Hindu was first imposed on south Asian nations by the
    Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was never
    used in south Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found in
    early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such a
    term and concept has no historical depth in any social, religious,
    ethnic or national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori
    for the first time named his conquered subjects Hindus." [G. Singh,
    Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20]

    "Hinduism, as a faith, is vague, amorphous, many-sided, all things
    to all men. It is hardly possible to define it, or indeed to say
    definitely whether it is a religion or not, in the usual sense of
    the word." [Jawaharlal Nehru, The Discovery of India, New Delhi,
    1983, p.75]

    "Frankly speaking, it is not possible to say definitely who is a
    Hindu and what Hinduism is. These questions have been considered
    again and again by eminent scholars, and so far no satisfactory
    answer has been given." [Swami Dharma Theertha, History of Hindu
    Imperialism, Madras, 1992, p. 178]

    "Hinduism defies definition... It has no specific creed." [Khushwant
    Singh, India: An Introduction, New Delhi, 1990, p. 19]

    "The more Hinduism is considered, the more difficult it becomes to
    define it in a single phrase... A Hindu may have any religious
    belief or none." [Percival Spear, India: A Modern History, Michigan,
    1961, p.40]

    "The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 AD by
    British writers. " [Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519 ]

    "The term Hindu was first imposed on south Asian nations by the
    Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was never
    used in south Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found in
    early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such a
    term and concept has no historical depth in any social, religious,
    ethnic or national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori
    for the first time named his conquered subjects Hindus." [G. Singh,
    Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20]

    #2
    so?
    لا عيش إلا عيش الآخرة
    BROTHERS NOT SLAVES. Regain Respect

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

      Originally posted by Pakistan4ever View Post
      Facts about the pre-Muslim ancestors of Pakistanis:

      1. The word/term "Hindu/Hinduism" is a recent construct. It were the
      Muslim invaders who for the first time in history imposed this foreign
      term in South Asia to the countless distinct local religions. Not a
      single pre-Muslim era Brahman, Buddhist, Jain, or any other South
      Asian scripture/inscription mentions the word "Hindu/Hinduism".

      2. Before the advent of Islam, the majority of people in the region of
      Pakistan were Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and Animists/Pagans/Shamanists.
      Brahmanists/Shaivites were a minority in Pakistan. Harappans ate beef,
      buried the dead, had no Hindu temples/idols/deities, etc. RigVedic
      Aryans forbade idolatory, ate beef, sacrificed cows, had no caste
      system, most Hindu deities were absent among them, etc. Under Persian
      rule, Zoroastrianism started to spread. Similarly, Greek Paganism
      spread under the Greeks. Asoka brought Buddhism, which was later also
      propagated along with Zoroastrianism and Animism/Shamanism/Paganism
      under the Bactrians, Sakas, Parthians, and Kushans. White Huns
      (Iranian Huns/Hepthalites) were not very fond of Buddhism.

      3. A significant minority of Pakistanis are descendents of Arab,
      Iranian, Turkic, Mughal and Afghan invaders/migrants, who just like
      the rest of the ancestors of Pakistanis were Zoroastrians,
      Animists/Pagans/Shamanists, and Buddhists before Islam.

      4. Pre-1947 region of present-day Pakistan only had 15% non-Muslims,
      out of which half were Sikhs. Many of remaining half that were Hindus
      were actual migrants from the region of present day India during the
      British rule. For example, most of the Hindus in pre-1947 Karachi had
      migrated from Gujarat/Rajasthan during British rule because of
      Karachi's economic boom then.


      On the pre-1947 non-Muslim population in present day region of
      Pakistan:

      1. W. Punjab: 9% Hindu, 11% Sikh
      2. Sindh: 10% Hindu, 5% Sikh
      3. NWFP: 2.5% Hindu, 2.5% Sikh
      4. Baluchistan: 3% Hindu

      Other Sources:

      According to the UN and other respected organizations, 12-24 million
      is the total estimate of migrations from both India and Pakistan
      (East Pakistan included) of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs combined at the
      time of partition!!! So if Hindus and Sikhs are taken as 50% of that
      figure, since there was an almost equal exchange of population, that
      would make about 6-12 million Hindus-Sikhs in both East and West
      Pakistan that migrated to India. Now, we know that there was almost
      an equal (50% each) number of migrants leaving East and West Pakistan
      (although Hindu population in East Pakistan was higher), that would
      make the Hindu-Sikh population in West Pakistan about 3-6 million.
      Now we know that West Pakistan's population at that time was about 25-
      30 million which makes the total Hindu-Sikh population about 12-20%
      (+ add the current 1.5%) in West Pakistan before partition. Also, it
      is estimated that out of the non-Muslim population in West Pakistan,
      +40% were Sikhs, so that leaves Hindus with even lesser numbers. We
      know that Sikhs do not consider themselves as Hindus and they are
      fighting for independence from India.

      References:

      Check your local library on the UN statistics on the country's
      history of population demography, it will also confirm this. Other
      sources such as the World Almanac clearly states: "More than 12
      MILLION Hindu & Moslem refugees crossed the India-Pakistan borders in
      a mass transferral of some of the 2 peoples during 1947; about
      200,000 were killed in communal fighting". Also the Library of
      Congress states: "The most conservative estimates of the casualties
      were 250,000 dead and 12 MILLION to 24 MILLION refugees".


      On the meaning and origins of Hinduism:

      "The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 AD by
      British writers. " [Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519 ]

      "The term Hindu was first imposed on south Asian nations by the
      Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was never
      used in south Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found in
      early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such a
      term and concept has no historical depth in any social, religious,
      ethnic or national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori
      for the first time named his conquered subjects Hindus." [G. Singh,
      Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20]

      "Hinduism, as a faith, is vague, amorphous, many-sided, all things
      to all men. It is hardly possible to define it, or indeed to say
      definitely whether it is a religion or not, in the usual sense of
      the word." [Jawaharlal Nehru, The Discovery of India, New Delhi,
      1983, p.75]

      "Frankly speaking, it is not possible to say definitely who is a
      Hindu and what Hinduism is. These questions have been considered
      again and again by eminent scholars, and so far no satisfactory
      answer has been given." [Swami Dharma Theertha, History of Hindu
      Imperialism, Madras, 1992, p. 178]

      "Hinduism defies definition... It has no specific creed." [Khushwant
      Singh, India: An Introduction, New Delhi, 1990, p. 19]

      "The more Hinduism is considered, the more difficult it becomes to
      define it in a single phrase... A Hindu may have any religious
      belief or none." [Percival Spear, India: A Modern History, Michigan,
      1961, p.40]

      "The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 AD by
      British writers. " [Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519 ]

      "The term Hindu was first imposed on south Asian nations by the
      Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was never
      used in south Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found in
      early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such a
      term and concept has no historical depth in any social, religious,
      ethnic or national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori
      for the first time named his conquered subjects Hindus." [G. Singh,
      Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20]
      OK i have studied all this, your right, but kinda off a little

      #2 Zoroastrians used to be the most accepted religion in the WHOLE world, back then almost everyone was Zoroastrians, even current day Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims...etc, so every bodies ancestors was probably Zoroastrian ( and this was far before 1800s or 1900s, this was like pre- historic)
      (were not talking about pre-historic but early 1900s here (1947), Zoroastrian and Buddhist are two different categories and they were never practiced at the same time in the Indian Subcontinent, because Zoroastrian was pre-historic like in the early 2nd millennium BCE)

      #3 The only known people that came to the Indian subcontinent of Arab decent, were Arabs that introduced Islam to south Asia, not any other

      #4 Those statistic are NOT pre-1947, that's was DURING 1947...Majority of Pakistan before 1947 was Buddhist, then also many or Hindus and Sikhs, and Christians, Muslims were actually a minority mainly found in current day Lahore...that's why Hindu temples were not found as much as other parts of India, but they did exist because it was the second most accepted religion at the time and so did Sikh temples and history was all in that region, and in Lahore mosque would be seen, migration started far before 1947 when rumors were spreading and plans were being made (this plan probably took more than a couple hundred years, because Muslims and Hindus were always wanting to separate) they gave land for both sides (easy access for Muslims on either side) of India to Muslims, Bangladesh and Pakistan, they were literally random pieces, and the reason why Pakistan portion was bigger than Bangladesh was because Pakistan region had mainly Buddhists and less Hindus than other regions(though there were plenty there too) and thought they would be less bloodshed, almost all the Buddhists, and some poor Hindus and poor Sikhs that did not own much land, they fled because they had no problem leaving land and money...etc, before tension arose, while the small minority of Muslims in the Pakistan region were recruiting Muslims from Central Indian cities (like Mumbai), and they were promised food, money, and land; millions arrived and that's how Pakistan got the Muslim majority later on...this was happening before 1947, when there were no borders and no records of the migration...The Hindus and Sikhs that fled during the 1947 partition were the ones that owned land and were resisting, but finally left, there's still couple thousand left, but now its tougher to cross with the border, but are still migrating slowly to India...This is also the time when the 85% of the region was Muslim all of a sudden from Buddhist, Hindu and Sikhs during 1947 because no one kept track of the Buddhist leaving and Muslims coming in before 1947. Many died on both sides and VERY rarely any successful cases of converting was recorded, spiritually its impossible to convert someone by force they will always convert back. This was all in the hands of the British, they fled before they were killed in the bloodshed they created, Pakistan and India independence from them was basically a forfeit, it was a random idea they created out of the blue "like OK you go there, and you go there", literally, and now two different countries, that caused so much trouble. People always ate beef, they still do in India i believe in the northern regions, where the law is less strict, where majority of the Buddhist and Christians live, some parts of Afghanistan, northern mountain regions, like Nuriastan, were also Buddhist or similar religions, but later conquered because they were a small excluded bunch and converting them meant little news of it spreading to other Buddhists, and it was difficult for them to flee, because they had to jump the Afghanistan- India (current day Pakistan) border, while Buddhists in current day Pakistan fled to the safe side before 1947 (before border was built) and during the partition is when both Pakistan and India got pasthus folks, 19 million in Pakistan and 11 million in India, not before. Today, very few are actually native Pakistanis, the only natives are the Kalash, Sikh and Hindu minorities that are still fleeing to India little by little, small amount of pasthus near the border, and also minority of Muslims that lived in Lahore. Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, and Buddhists in all of South Asian were all Hindus whether they live in Hindustan or Pakistan and whether they consider themselves that or not, genetically they are. Clans found Within some Hindus, Sikh, Christian are a mixture of European blood, and some clans within Muslims were with Arab blood. Kashmir and Sikhs are smart they don't want independence now days and they both have a amazing reputation in India, because they know the same thing that happened to Muslims and Pakistan will happen again with Muslims scattered in both countries and they know their countries would just be considered a crumble of India and will not be successful.
      Last edited by nycxbarbie; Jan 7, 2013, 11:37 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

        My Pakhtun ancestors may have been pagan/Buddhist/Zoroastrians, however they chose Islam -- that is the most important thing to me.

        I don't understand why some Pakistan's try so hard to disassociate their pre-Islamic ancestry. The people of what is now Pakistan have the cultural heritage as far deep and rivaling the Greeks, Eygptians etc. From Moen-jo Daro to Taxila to Harrappa.
        I all night it, I every day it
        And when it comes to my dues, I overpaid it

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

          It is Funny when people talk about Things they do not understand.
          Hinduism is not a Religion, neither is Hindu a man who follows Hinduism.

          Hindu is person who lives in Hindustan..

          The Religion is called "Sanatan Dharma".. It is actually not a Religion but a way of living. So, present days Hindus are actually the followers of Sanatan Dharma. Sanatan Dharma is believed to be the Oldest Religion known. It can be translated to mean Since Forever.. !!

          So, lets talk what we know guys.. Or Lets ask people who know.

          G'day
          I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
          Decency™©®

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

            Originally posted by a decent 1 View Post
            It is Funny when people talk about Things they do not understand.
            Hinduism is not a Religion, neither is Hindu a man who follows Hinduism.

            Hindu is person who lives in Hindustan..

            The Religion is called "Sanatan Dharma".. It is actually not a Religion but a way of living. So, present days Hindus are actually the followers of Sanatan Dharma. Sanatan Dharma is believed to be the Oldest Religion known. It can be translated to mean Since Forever.. !!

            So, lets talk what we know guys.. Or Lets ask people who know.

            G'day
            According to your definition even the Christians and Muslims of Hindustan are Hindus?
            “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." Albert Einstein

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

              Sikhs are trying to get Freedom from India.. !!

              Man, This sentence made my Day.. I cannot stop laughing.. I was born and brought up in Punjab and I never came to know that Sikhs were actually trying to get Independence from India.. !!
              I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
              Decency™©®

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                Originally posted by Ali_Syed View Post
                According to your definition even the Christians and Muslims of Hindustan are Hindus?
                Yes,
                Hindu is not a Religion.. Not according to the Religious books. It is just what Mughals started calling us.
                Hindu comes from Hindustan, nowhere is Hindu word mentioned in the Religious Books.. Nor does the word Hinduism exist in any Vedas. !!

                P.S - Swap Britisher by Mughals.
                Last edited by a decent 1; Jan 7, 2013, 12:01 PM.
                I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
                Decency™©®

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                  Originally posted by a decent 1 View Post


                  Yes,
                  Hindu is not a Religion.. Not according to the Religious books. It is just what Britishers started calling us.
                  Hindu comes from Hindustan, nowhere is Hindu word mentioned in the Religious Books.. Nor does the word Hinduism exist in any Vedas. !!
                  This is the first time I am hearing this. Indian muslims dont consider themselves as Hindus. Maybe you have taken this from Hindu Kush which has its own history.
                  “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                    Originally posted by Ali_Syed View Post
                    This is the first time I am hearing this. Indian muslims dont consider themselves as Hindus. Maybe you have taken this from Hindu Kush which has its own history.
                    No Brother,
                    It is a Fact. Nobody understand Religion these days. Nobody has the time.. We just do what we do without giving a thought to anything. You would be amazed to know that in the Actual Sanatan Dharma Religion, Idol worship is prohibited. But, look at what the modern day Hindus are doing.

                    It is all about misinterpreting the Religious books. Misunderstanding the Religion.

                    I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
                    Decency™©®

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                      Originally posted by Ali_Syed View Post
                      This is the first time I am hearing this. Indian muslims dont consider themselves as Hindus. Maybe you have taken this from Hindu Kush which has its own history.
                      Indian Muslims are not Hindus my brother.. It is not Hindustan anymore, is it..?
                      It is India/Bharat now.. !!
                      Just the word Hindu stuck.. And they started calling the people who did not adopt a Religion as Hindu..

                      Take it this way .. Muslims Adopted Islam, Christians adopted Christianity, Buddhist Adopted Buddhism.. The ones who did not adopt any modern Religions are the followers of Sanatan Dharma..


                      Take for example, In Christianity there is Jesus Christ who started this Religion.. In Islam we have Prophet Mohammad.. Now, nowhere in the Vedas would you find a name that came into this world and started a Religion.. It is Sanatan, Since Forever.

                      It is a very vast subject brother.. Would take years to understand.
                      I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
                      Decency™©®

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                        Sanatana Dharma is the original name of what is now popularly called Hinduism or Hindu Dharma. The terms Hindu and Hinduism are said to be a more recent development, while the more accurate term is Sanatana Dharma. It is a code of ethics, a way of living through which one may achieve moksha (enlightenment, liberation). It is the world's most ancient culture and the socio, spiritual, and religious tradition of almost one billion of the earth's inhabitants. Sanatana Dharma represents much more than just a religion; rather, it provides its followers with an entire worldview, way of life and with a coherent and rational view of reality.
                        I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
                        Decency™©®

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                          Originally posted by a decent 1 View Post


                          Indian Muslims are not Hindus my brother.. It is not Hindustan anymore, is it..?
                          It is India/Bharat now.. !! ....
                          If Britishers called people of Hindustan "Hindus", what did they call Muslims living in "Hindustan"?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                            Originally posted by kakaballi View Post
                            If Britishers called people of Hindustan "Hindus", what did they call Muslims living in "Hindustan"?
                            Muhammadan
                            We should care for each other more than we care for ideas, or else we will end up killing each other.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Religion in Pakistan - before Islam and before 1947

                              Originally posted by kakaballi View Post
                              If Britishers called people of Hindustan "Hindus", what did they call Muslims living in "Hindustan"?
                              I asked to Swap Britishers with Mughals, my dear..
                              Mughals knew what to call Muslims..

                              Read all the posts above. The people who did not convert to any religion were called Hindus.
                              I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO... I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIKE YOU .. !!
                              Decency™©®

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X