and i just lost interest in the whole presidential race.
The Democratic Presidential Candidates Debate Pakistan
'Pakistan Has Misled the World on Nuclear Proliferation'
Special SAT Report
WASHINGTON: Almost all the presidential candidates of the Democratic Party want the US policy towards Pakistan to be tougher and most believe General Musharraf has not been an honest ally.
These impressions emerged after the candidates were asked questions about Pakistan during a debate organized by the National Public Radio (NPR) on January 6, 2004. Neal Conan was the host of the debate broadcast live from the downtown Des Moines campus of Iowa State University. Such detailed questioning about US-Pakistan relations has not yet been done in any of the televised TV debates.
Six Democrats, who hope to challenge President George W. Bush next fall, were present, seated at a U-shaped table in front of the host, but the debate was on radio only, with no cameras. The participants included former Governor Howard Dean of Vermont, Congressman Dick Gephardt of Missouri, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and former Ambassador Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois. Wesley Clark declined the invitation. Senator John Edwards and Reverend Al Sharpton accepted but changed their plans.
Important quotes from the candidates include:
Senator Kerry: Pakistan has, frankly, misled the United States and the world with respect to its proliferation responsibilities for years... I am convinced we can be tougher with Pakistan.
Governor Howard Dean: They'll sell that weaponry to terrorists or to other countries like Libya or Pakistan for hard currency. That is a major national security threat. And this president is not defending this country.
Richard Gephardt: This is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. They have nuclear power. This president is not doing enough to see to it that we don't face the imposition of nuclear weapons from other countries like Pakistan to the terrorists and finding their way into the United States.
Senator John Kerry: We should have taken the initiative long ago, recognizing the Islamic realities in Pakistan to have worked with India to create a nuclear oversight capacity so that if there were an assassination or there were an overthrow, we know that the nuclear weapons can't fall in the hands of terrorists.
Senator Joe Lieberman: I proposed an international Marshall Plan for the Muslim world, very different from the 'do nothing' approach of the Bush administration.
Following is the Transcript of the questions and answers on Pakistan and related issues, taken from the NPR Web site:
CONAN: Senator Kerry, Pakistani officials are accused of trading nuclear weapons technology to other countries, including Iran, North Korea and, as we heard today, possibly to Libya as well. Pakistan is also an essential American ally in the war on terrorism and, look at the map, it's crucial to any continuing operations in Afghanistan. How do you balance those two issues?
Sen. KERRY: It's complicated, but--excuse me--you have to balance them, and it's even more complicated than that. There have been two attempts on the life of President Musharraf. The specter of an Islamic radical state with nuclear weapons is unacceptable for the world, and that is what is at risk in Pakistan today. Pakistan has, frankly, misled the United States and the world with respect to its proliferation responsibilities for years. I remember meeting in Washington with President Zia and he lied to my face about what they were doing with respect to nuclear weapons. And that's when we put sanctions in place on Pakistan as a consequence.
I believe that you have to walk a very fine line, but I am convinced we can be tougher with Pakistan. There are steps that we could take now to deal with the northwest component, where Osama bin Laden is. We know he's up there. We have not pushed hard enough. And I think there are combinations of initiatives we could take with India that would also help us resolve the tensions in that area.
CONAN: Some follows. Ambassador Braun.
Ms. BRAUN: Senator Kerry is exactly right. When Benazir Bhutto was president, she swore directly to us that there was no nuclear rising going on, and we saw the O-rings on the Chinese boat in Karachi's harbor. The fact of the matter is Musharraf overthrew a democratically elected government there. We have to work with the Pakistanis but be very clear about the fact that our interests and their interests may not be coherent. There are rumors even that bin Laden is hanging out in the northwest territories there. So the fact of the matter is we have to, you know, take advantage of our--we have to relationship-build even with bad people. But at the same time, we have to be very clear about who it is we're dealing with.
CONAN: And, Governor Dean, you wanted to get in on this.
Dr. DEAN: I just wanted to bring up one other point about this. As we sit here, the president of the United States is refusing to have bilateral negotiations with the North Koreans, who almost certainly have a bomb already. This president is about to allow North Korea to become a nuclear power. The danger in that is not that the North Koreans will immediately attack us. The real danger is that they will do what Pakistan is accused of. They'll sell that weaponry to terrorists or to other countries like Libya or Pakistan for hard currency. That is a major national security threat. And this president is not defending this country the way he ought to be by refusing to engage in those kinds of deliberations because the hard-liners in this administration believe somehow North Korea's going to fall. Well, if they don't fall of their own accord and they end up with nuclear weapons, that's a pretty serious security risk for the United States of America.
CONAN: Congressman Kucinich.
Rep. KUCINICH: We have to consider the implications of this administration's policy of nuclear first strike and of developing new nuclear weapons, which was enunciated in their Nuclear Posture Review. Once the administration took that position, it lost credibility with the world community to ask any nation to disarm. As president of the United States, I would lead the way towards reasserting the primacy of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which calls for the United States and all nuclear nations to get rid of their nuclear weapons and for the non-nuclear nations not to develop them. That's how we can regain credibility. That's how we can help secure the world.
CONAN: And, Congressman Gephardt.
Rep. GEPHARDT: Back on Pakistan, I think this administration has failed a lot in doing something to stop the Saudi support for madrassas schools in especially Pakistan that is producing young terrorists coming forward. You've now had two attacks on Musharraf's life. This is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. They have nuclear power. This president is not doing enough to see to it that we don't face the imposition of nuclear weapons from other countries like Pakistan to the terrorists and finding their way into the United States.
CONAN: And I'll get to you just in a second, Senator Lieberman, but I did want to follow up with Congressman Gephardt. You and others have criticized the institutions of the madrassas, which you say are teaching anti-Western values. Where do we get off telling other countries how to run their schools?
Rep. GEPHARDT: When you're teaching people to be terrorists, when you're advocating behavior which is really terrorism, I think the whole world has a stake in changing that educational system. This is putting lives at stake all over the world. This is a manufacturing facility of terrorism, and the whole world has to take a stand against this, and it's being funded in large part by some members of the Saudi society, and we have to take a hard stand against it and get it to change, get it to move.
CONAN: And now, Senator Lieberman.
Sen. LIEBERMAN: Yeah, thanks. Who would have guessed that Pakistan would have brought forth each of us to offer a comment? Let me make two points about this. The first is that the most significant threat we face to American security and American lives in the coming period of history is from fanatical Islamic terrorism. They attacked us brutally on September 11th, 2001, but Osama bin Laden in his most insane moments does not contemplate conquering the United States of America. More likely targets are Islamabad, Pakistan and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. So working with General Musharraf--not perfect--is very important to our security.
Secondly, finally, this administration has been woefully disengaged from playing the kind of constructive mediating role we should be playing between Pakistan and India to resolve and mediate those conflicts which will be in everybody's interests.
The Democratic Presidential Candidates Debate Pakistan
'Pakistan Has Misled the World on Nuclear Proliferation'
Special SAT Report
WASHINGTON: Almost all the presidential candidates of the Democratic Party want the US policy towards Pakistan to be tougher and most believe General Musharraf has not been an honest ally.
These impressions emerged after the candidates were asked questions about Pakistan during a debate organized by the National Public Radio (NPR) on January 6, 2004. Neal Conan was the host of the debate broadcast live from the downtown Des Moines campus of Iowa State University. Such detailed questioning about US-Pakistan relations has not yet been done in any of the televised TV debates.
Six Democrats, who hope to challenge President George W. Bush next fall, were present, seated at a U-shaped table in front of the host, but the debate was on radio only, with no cameras. The participants included former Governor Howard Dean of Vermont, Congressman Dick Gephardt of Missouri, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and former Ambassador Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois. Wesley Clark declined the invitation. Senator John Edwards and Reverend Al Sharpton accepted but changed their plans.
Important quotes from the candidates include:
Senator Kerry: Pakistan has, frankly, misled the United States and the world with respect to its proliferation responsibilities for years... I am convinced we can be tougher with Pakistan.
Governor Howard Dean: They'll sell that weaponry to terrorists or to other countries like Libya or Pakistan for hard currency. That is a major national security threat. And this president is not defending this country.
Richard Gephardt: This is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. They have nuclear power. This president is not doing enough to see to it that we don't face the imposition of nuclear weapons from other countries like Pakistan to the terrorists and finding their way into the United States.
Senator John Kerry: We should have taken the initiative long ago, recognizing the Islamic realities in Pakistan to have worked with India to create a nuclear oversight capacity so that if there were an assassination or there were an overthrow, we know that the nuclear weapons can't fall in the hands of terrorists.
Senator Joe Lieberman: I proposed an international Marshall Plan for the Muslim world, very different from the 'do nothing' approach of the Bush administration.
Following is the Transcript of the questions and answers on Pakistan and related issues, taken from the NPR Web site:
CONAN: Senator Kerry, Pakistani officials are accused of trading nuclear weapons technology to other countries, including Iran, North Korea and, as we heard today, possibly to Libya as well. Pakistan is also an essential American ally in the war on terrorism and, look at the map, it's crucial to any continuing operations in Afghanistan. How do you balance those two issues?
Sen. KERRY: It's complicated, but--excuse me--you have to balance them, and it's even more complicated than that. There have been two attempts on the life of President Musharraf. The specter of an Islamic radical state with nuclear weapons is unacceptable for the world, and that is what is at risk in Pakistan today. Pakistan has, frankly, misled the United States and the world with respect to its proliferation responsibilities for years. I remember meeting in Washington with President Zia and he lied to my face about what they were doing with respect to nuclear weapons. And that's when we put sanctions in place on Pakistan as a consequence.
I believe that you have to walk a very fine line, but I am convinced we can be tougher with Pakistan. There are steps that we could take now to deal with the northwest component, where Osama bin Laden is. We know he's up there. We have not pushed hard enough. And I think there are combinations of initiatives we could take with India that would also help us resolve the tensions in that area.
CONAN: Some follows. Ambassador Braun.
Ms. BRAUN: Senator Kerry is exactly right. When Benazir Bhutto was president, she swore directly to us that there was no nuclear rising going on, and we saw the O-rings on the Chinese boat in Karachi's harbor. The fact of the matter is Musharraf overthrew a democratically elected government there. We have to work with the Pakistanis but be very clear about the fact that our interests and their interests may not be coherent. There are rumors even that bin Laden is hanging out in the northwest territories there. So the fact of the matter is we have to, you know, take advantage of our--we have to relationship-build even with bad people. But at the same time, we have to be very clear about who it is we're dealing with.
CONAN: And, Governor Dean, you wanted to get in on this.
Dr. DEAN: I just wanted to bring up one other point about this. As we sit here, the president of the United States is refusing to have bilateral negotiations with the North Koreans, who almost certainly have a bomb already. This president is about to allow North Korea to become a nuclear power. The danger in that is not that the North Koreans will immediately attack us. The real danger is that they will do what Pakistan is accused of. They'll sell that weaponry to terrorists or to other countries like Libya or Pakistan for hard currency. That is a major national security threat. And this president is not defending this country the way he ought to be by refusing to engage in those kinds of deliberations because the hard-liners in this administration believe somehow North Korea's going to fall. Well, if they don't fall of their own accord and they end up with nuclear weapons, that's a pretty serious security risk for the United States of America.
CONAN: Congressman Kucinich.
Rep. KUCINICH: We have to consider the implications of this administration's policy of nuclear first strike and of developing new nuclear weapons, which was enunciated in their Nuclear Posture Review. Once the administration took that position, it lost credibility with the world community to ask any nation to disarm. As president of the United States, I would lead the way towards reasserting the primacy of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which calls for the United States and all nuclear nations to get rid of their nuclear weapons and for the non-nuclear nations not to develop them. That's how we can regain credibility. That's how we can help secure the world.
CONAN: And, Congressman Gephardt.
Rep. GEPHARDT: Back on Pakistan, I think this administration has failed a lot in doing something to stop the Saudi support for madrassas schools in especially Pakistan that is producing young terrorists coming forward. You've now had two attacks on Musharraf's life. This is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. They have nuclear power. This president is not doing enough to see to it that we don't face the imposition of nuclear weapons from other countries like Pakistan to the terrorists and finding their way into the United States.
CONAN: And I'll get to you just in a second, Senator Lieberman, but I did want to follow up with Congressman Gephardt. You and others have criticized the institutions of the madrassas, which you say are teaching anti-Western values. Where do we get off telling other countries how to run their schools?
Rep. GEPHARDT: When you're teaching people to be terrorists, when you're advocating behavior which is really terrorism, I think the whole world has a stake in changing that educational system. This is putting lives at stake all over the world. This is a manufacturing facility of terrorism, and the whole world has to take a stand against this, and it's being funded in large part by some members of the Saudi society, and we have to take a hard stand against it and get it to change, get it to move.
CONAN: And now, Senator Lieberman.
Sen. LIEBERMAN: Yeah, thanks. Who would have guessed that Pakistan would have brought forth each of us to offer a comment? Let me make two points about this. The first is that the most significant threat we face to American security and American lives in the coming period of history is from fanatical Islamic terrorism. They attacked us brutally on September 11th, 2001, but Osama bin Laden in his most insane moments does not contemplate conquering the United States of America. More likely targets are Islamabad, Pakistan and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. So working with General Musharraf--not perfect--is very important to our security.
Secondly, finally, this administration has been woefully disengaged from playing the kind of constructive mediating role we should be playing between Pakistan and India to resolve and mediate those conflicts which will be in everybody's interests.
Jeez.
Comment