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    Very Informative Military Analysis

    CNN on India Pakistan Military

    Very informative facts.

    According to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Pakistan has more nuclear warheads than India.

    Pakistan's Shaheen Missile is shorter in length than Agni, but has the same range. Then again this is CNN, so according to then Shaheen is less accurate then Agni, but it makes up the difference by carrying 2640 lbs of payload vs. Agni's 2200.

    But India outnumbers Pakistan is all other military machines, not that it matters...



    ------------------
    You can only paint with the colors you're given...
    ...so get what you like and like what you have.

    #2
    Originally posted by pakistan99:
    CNN on India Pakistan Military

    Very informative facts.

    According to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Pakistan has more nuclear warheads than India.

    Pakistan's Shaheen Missile is shorter in length than Agni, but has the same range. Then again this is CNN, so according to then Shaheen is less accurate then Agni, but it makes up the difference by carrying 2640 lbs of payload vs. Agni's 2200.

    But India outnumbers Pakistan is all other military machines, not that it matters...


    Choke on this. Say, what's the Paki army's war record again? 0 - 3? Thought so. Yeah, real great army there. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

    "Indian nuke arsenal dwarfs Pakistan's : Jane's


    AFP [ FRIDAY, MAY 31, 2002 4:25:50 AM ]

    WASHINGTON: India has up to 150 nuclear warheads while Pakistan could only call upon a third of that total at most, Jane's defense publications said Thursday, as fears persisted the two rivals were slipping towards a disastrous war.


    Although both sides have declined to give details of the size or capability of their arsenals since shocking the world with rival nuclear weapons tests in 1998, a survey by Jane's Strategic Weapons Systems has estimated their destructive potential.


    India may be able to deploy a 20 kilotonne device from a MiG, Jaguar or Mirage aircraft, and could be able to deliver a bomb of a similar size on Prithvi, Dhanush and Agni ballistic missiles, the article said.


    "It is estimated that India probably has between 50 and 150 nuclear warheads available," the survey, released by the London-based group here Thursday, said.


    "Analysis from some sources suggests that there is sufficient weapons grade uranium and plutonium available to India to build more warheads."


    Pakistan's program is less advanced, but it probably has between 25 and 50 nuclear warheads available, the report said."

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Nobel:

      Choke on this. Say, what's the Paki army's war record again? 0 - 3? Thought so. Yeah, real great army there. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

      "Indian nuke arsenal dwarfs Pakistan's : Jane's


      AFP [ FRIDAY, MAY 31, 2002 4:25:50 AM ]

      WASHINGTON: India has up to 150 nuclear warheads while Pakistan could only call upon a third of that total at most, Jane's defense publications said Thursday, as fears persisted the two rivals were slipping towards a disastrous war.


      Although both sides have declined to give details of the size or capability of their arsenals since shocking the world with rival nuclear weapons tests in 1998, a survey by Jane's Strategic Weapons Systems has estimated their destructive potential.


      India may be able to deploy a 20 kilotonne device from a MiG, Jaguar or Mirage aircraft, and could be able to deliver a bomb of a similar size on Prithvi, Dhanush and Agni ballistic missiles, the article said.


      "It is estimated that India probably has between 50 and 150 nuclear warheads available," the survey, released by the London-based group here Thursday, said.


      "Analysis from some sources suggests that there is sufficient weapons grade uranium and plutonium available to India to build more warheads."


      Pakistan's program is less advanced, but it probably has between 25 and 50 nuclear warheads available, the report said."

      Four butt kicks 48/62/65/99 were not enough here have a word with Prof. karnad..

      The Rediff Interview/Prof Bharat Karnad
      'We are great at fooling ourselves'
      An NBC report quoting intelligence sources as saying that Pakistan's nuclear arms are greater than India's in number, sophistication and delivery systems has sent shock waves through the country. But Professor Bharat Karnad feels vindicated. A security affairs specialist at the Centre for Policy Research, he has been crying himself hoarse that India's nuclear arms are not just insufficient to match China but are probably incapable of matching Pakistan too.
      In a brief interview to Amberish K Diwanji, he explains his position and his fears about India's nuclear arsenal and its strategic weaknesses. Excerpts:
      First question. Are Pakistan's nuclear weapons superior to what India has?
      I have been saying this for almost two years, since the May 1998 tests <../../bomb.htm>. The case I am making is that unless we test, and do so repeatedly, we will not be able to have deployable or usable weapons. We will have computer-designed weapons which can be exploded in computer simulations. But that is not the same as the real thing. Without physical testing, we will never know whether our nuclear weapons work.
      We don't have that amount of data, especially on the thermonuclear device. The one thermonuclear explosion we had was a fizzle, which has now been admitted by our top scientists like P K Iyengar. So what data do we have for the thermonuclear weapon, which is a decisive weapon in any nuclear arsenal?
      And I have said that if we don't test more, not only are we going to be no match for the Chinese, but we will find it difficult to match even the Pakistanis when it comes to deployable arms. After all, the Chinese have conducted some 50-odd tests and have a whole battery of data to use for comparing their computer simulations and to constantly upgrade their weapons.
      Even the Pakistanis have conducted very few tests.
      Look, the Pakistanis have imported their entire design and delivery systems from China. They don't need to test. I made this point in great detail at a recent seminar where I said we are not a match for even Pakistan, so why are we talking about China?
      Now that the NBC report has come out, everyone is talking about it [Pakistan's superiority]. But earlier it was evident to a few of us. In the nuclear scientific community, many of them know this. But outside that group, I think I am the only one who kept saying [that we are no match for Pakistan]. I then persuaded P K Iyengar for almost a year to go public, which he did recently. He was very reluctant and required a lot of coaxing. But I needed him to back what I had been saying because no one was believing me. I knew I was right, but needed an independent corroboration, which Iyengar provided.
      Both the Indian government and the Pakistani government have denied the NBC report.
      Let's look at the motivation of the Pakistanis to say they have only a modest arsenal. It is simple: they do not want India to go ahead. It is better for them to say that India is great and has a huge arsenal compared to their small collection, and thus lull us into complacency at which India anyway is very good.
      Look at our complacency. We conduct one test and think we have a huge inventory. But it is just the beginning. The 1998 tests were just the beginning because we had a 24-year hiatus when we did literally nothing.
      We are great at fooling ourselves. We have deluded ourselves into believing that we don't need to do any of the things others did to achieve deterrence. This has been the Indian tradition, a habit of mind that is difficult to contest.
      And it is this habit of mind that makes us believe we have achieved weaponisation?
      Very true. When, in fact, the processes of weaponisation are very distinct, very detailed, very rigorous, and ultimately, very physical. Which means that you may do all kinds of computer simulations and sophisticated testing, but ultimately they have to be physically tested.
      Arundhati Ghose, former representative at the Disarmament Conference, has said that India does not even have data for computer simulations.
      That's right. But you know, ultimately, Arundhati, I and others, we don't have much credibility. But people know we are right.
      Do you think there is a witch-hunt against you?
      No, not a witch-hunt. I don't want to get into the conspiratorial stuff. But the fact is that my views are not convenient for the government, for the people, for the mainstream leaders of the strategic community. The Jasjit Singhs and K Subrahmanyams have been proven wrong so consistently and so often that they don't think anything is wrong when something like this [the NBC report] is pointed out. They are the ones who opposed any testing after 1974, saying that one test was enough. Jasjit Singh wrote that and Subrahmanyam said before the [May 1998] tests that we don't need any more tests.
      Then, after the tests, oh yes, they said that is good and now we don't need any more tests [laughs]. Now, after the ground under him has been weakening, he has said that we may need some tests.
      The lesson of this is that the government has advisers who give advice that they think the government wants to hear. This, of course, assumes that these advisers can give that kind of advice. What, after all, are retired officers? They have somehow managed to survive 35 years in service because they do not want to go too much against the grain. So it is clods like us who don't know how to play the game. We give our assessment based on analysis and if the analysis says this is how the chips fall [that is what we say]. If someone can refute the analysis, do so.
      The NBC report says India lacks a credible delivery system while Pakistan has one.
      I think that is overstating the case a bit. I don't really know...
      But the DRDO [Defence Research and Development Organisation] does not have a good track record.
      I have said that DRDO does not have a good track record. We have made A P J Kalam into an icon, and the trouble is that in doing so he becomes invulnerable to criticism. Kalam is a tremendous leader of the integrated defence missile project, but you can't then say that he is God's gift to the country.
      But you do believe we have a delivery system?
      Yes, a rudimentary delivery system, not as rudimentary as the report claims.
      But not as sophisticated as what Pakistan has?
      No, because Pakistan has been getting Chinese missiles. Everything there is imported. It is a bit like comparing a calculator made in Ghaziabad with one made in Germany. They have imported their stuff whereas we have put together something.
      But in the end what matters is the final system.
      That is right. What finally matters is whether you have something to use or not, not how good your research base is or how great you are.
      Ultimately the bomb has a utilitarian value. It does not have a metaphysical value. We give it metaphysical values such as equating it to the Indian stake in high science. What the heck!
      Do you think this report will be a wake-up call to the government?
      I am not too sure. Our writings have not done the trick, but as usual, some foreigner says the most banal things and we take it seriously.
      How would you place this report in context?
      I have been saying the same things, so naturally I won't say this report is wrong. It states all these things that I know and I have written about.
      Most of our indigenous weaponisation programmes have not done very well. What needs to be done?
      We have very, very good scientists. But we have to let them loose to do the things that they can do. We have the finest physicists, engineers and metallurgists, but we have to give them incentives, you have to get them cracking, not restrain them by holding back funds. After all, nuclear arms do not come cheap.
      India wants to achieve superpowerhood on the cheap. Why should anybody accord you big-power status? What are you? You are a beggarly country. You don't even know what your national interests are.
      I am very respectful of Pakistan, and I have always said so. Why? Because their margin of error is so little. That is why they don't take any chances. Like the Israelis. You have to beg, borrow or steal to ensure your security. In our case, we think we are a subcontinent and who cares? The drought kills millions, but there is a billion more, so who cares?
      That is the difference. I am not surprised that the Pakistanis are so motivated, so dedicated and so resolved to have what they want. Bhutto said, 'We'll eat grass, but we'll have it [the nuclear bomb].' They got it! They got it!
      Incidentally, the defence minister has said that India will sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. What do you think?
      I doubt it. This government will fall.

      Comment


        #4
        U been lot os s--- from UK, USA and Indian publication... guess what, I ain't givin' a s--- what they say about Pakistan Army.

        BTW, 150 or 2500, doesn't really matter... because they are gonna stay where they are and serve at poja sthans when New Delhi goes out with the first strike!!!

        ------------------
        You can only paint with the colors you're given...
        ...so get what you like and like what you have.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Nobel:

          Choke on this. Say, what's the Paki army's war record again? 0 - 3? Thought so. Yeah, real great army there. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

          "Indian nuke arsenal dwarfs Pakistan's : Jane's


          AFP [ FRIDAY, MAY 31, 2002 4:25:50 AM ]

          WASHINGTON: India has up to 150 nuclear warheads while Pakistan could only call upon a third of that total at most, Jane's defense publications said Thursday, as fears persisted the two rivals were slipping towards a disastrous war.


          Although both sides have declined to give details of the size or capability of their arsenals since shocking the world with rival nuclear weapons tests in 1998, a survey by Jane's Strategic Weapons Systems has estimated their destructive potential.


          India may be able to deploy a 20 kilotonne device from a MiG, Jaguar or Mirage aircraft, and could be able to deliver a bomb of a similar size on Prithvi, Dhanush and Agni ballistic missiles, the article said.


          "It is estimated that India probably has between 50 and 150 nuclear warheads available," the survey, released by the London-based group here Thursday, said.


          "Analysis from some sources suggests that there is sufficient weapons grade uranium and plutonium available to India to build more warheads."


          Pakistan's program is less advanced, but it probably has between 25 and 50 nuclear warheads available, the report said."

          Nobel!
          I'm pakistani and hoping that both nation get some sense and should stop talking about nukes and pukes.as you tried to mention Indian almighty power so for your kind information my friend in 1947 when 1 country was divided into 3 (bangladesh was designed to be separated)India not only got Govt. offices and Business they got built country and infrastructure,to start their journey from there was very easy for India as compare to Pakistan all we had was Karachi port so basically we build and building everything from scracth.so if you think you have gain more then Paksitan then you are living under rock,its pakistan who has emerge as a Nation not india.India was there anyway.so its not worth mentioning 0-3 war records.
          THanks.

          Comment


            #6
            And gupshup's own Abdali missile just gave u a taste of your own... http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

            ------------------
            You can only paint with the colors you're given...
            ...so get what you like and like what you have.

            Comment


              #7
              Quite frankly, this is childish. 150 warheads! huh? What are you gonna do with them? Nuke Lahore 65 times? Get over it, will ya.

              All it takes is ONE, from each side and it will be all over. Not 25, not 150. You do not kill 100% population. You just prove a point. And, simply put, this is all a lot of hot air, anyway.

              You, and all those who are counting these, and boasting, seem more like pre-adolscent school boys comparing the number of action figure toys and trying to one-up each other. It would have been funny, had it been any less horrible.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by pakistan99:
                U been lot os s--- from UK, USA and Indian publication... guess what, I ain't givin' a s--- what they say about Pakistan Army.

                BTW, 150 or 2500, doesn't really matter... because they are gonna stay where they are and serve at poja sthans when New Delhi goes out with the first strike!!!

                Pakis don't have a navy worth anything. When a sub and naval destroyer is used to shoot nukes up your behinds from Karachi to Rawal*****, Pakis be dancing on the streets I suppose?

                Don't hate me. I am only the messenger. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

                Comment


                  #9
                  Beta in '65 we had a sub and u pathetic ppl didn't. So we have more experience with them. And btw, we have French Nuclear Augusta Class subs, but u have those rusty soviet pieces of junk, I'm just waiting for the kirsk to repeat itself off the coast of bombay.

                  ------------------
                  You can only paint with the colors you're given...
                  ...so get what you like and like what you have.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
                    Nobel!
                    I'm pakistani and hoping that both nation get some sense and should stop talking about nukes and pukes.as you tried to mention Indian almighty power so for your kind information my friend in 1947 when 1 country was divided into 3 (bangladesh was designed to be separated)India not only got Govt. offices and Business they got built country and infrastructure,to start their journey from there was very easy for India as compare to Pakistan all we had was Karachi port so basically we build and building everything from scracth.so if you think you have gain more then Paksitan then you are living under rock,its pakistan who has emerge as a Nation not india.India was there anyway.so its not worth mentioning 0-3 war records.
                    THanks.
                    Pakistan is now a poorer country than India (check the latest GDP per capita figures from the World Bank) despite being so much smaller (easier to change when you are smaller) and having a better start. Pakistan was outpaced because of its obsession with religion. The world moved forward, Pakistan moved backwards. Even Paki nukes are Chinese gifts. Pakistan cannot even sustain a civilian government. What are you talkin about brother? http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by pakistan99:
                      Beta in '65 we had a sub and u pathetic ppl didn't. So we have more experience with them. And btw, we have French Nuclear Augusta Class subs, but u have those rusty soviet pieces of junk, I'm just waiting for the kirsk to repeat itself off the coast of bombay.

                      Accha chalo, you are right. Pakistani army is much superior and can invade India at will. Happy? http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif Friends? http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nobel:
                        Pakistan is now a poorer country than India (check the latest GDP per capita figures from the World Bank) despite being so much smaller (easier to change when you are smaller) and having a better start. Pakistan was outpaced because of its obsession with religion. The world moved forward, Pakistan moved backwards. Even Paki nukes are Chinese gifts. Pakistan cannot even sustain a civilian government. What are you talkin about brother? http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
                        go find out who taught chinese to make nukes we get help for ingredients cuz its easy for them to get uranium and plutonium then Pakistan(poor muslim country).who is poor who is not i didn't say or ask your analysis.you sound bitter in your reply,why is hard to admit truth.wait until you will be use against china by US and then you will know who got the Game?


                        [This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited May 31, 2002).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yaar Nobel,

                          See this article by Ayaz Amir in Dawn.
                          http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

                          For long Pakistan was the belligerent power in the subcontinent, its people subscribing to the belief that one Muslim was equal in combat to ten Hindus. In the order of battle for the 1965 war it was actually put down in black and white that as a rule Hindu morale cracked under a few sharp blows. We have learned our lessons in realism the hard way. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
                          Laaton ke Bhoot... http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

                          Comment


                            #14
                            One day he threatens Pakistan with decisive war. The next day he says, "...the sky is clear. But sometimes lightening can strike even when the sky is clear."
                            Elected and Democractic Leader, Vajo

                            http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/dixsi.gif Kiddo needed a break http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/dixsi.gif

                            Live & Let Live

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
                              go find out who taught chinese to make nukes we get help for ingredients cuz its easy for them to get uranium and plutonium then Pakistan(poor muslim country).who is poor who is not i didn't say or ask your analysis.you sound bitter in your reply,why is hard to admit truth.wait until you will be use against china by US and then you will know who got the Game?


                              [This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited May 31, 2002).]
                              I am not bitter or angry. I am responding to the one-sided propoganda and rhetoric. Look, in reality, I do wish the best for both Pakistan and India. So we can live like civilized people and decent neighbors. So much easier to live like that than fight like enemies, isn't it?

                              Comment

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