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Pakistan and India - Defense expenditure?

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    Pakistan and India - Defense expenditure?

    Pakistan is facing a big dilemma at the moment. The allegedly secular India has been threatening its borders for sometime and is on a war footing with over one million soldiers ready to attack Pakistan.

    Pakistan, as a responsible country has continued to pass the hand of friendship to the alleged secular India. However, the hawks in the Indian government have continued to back off from any peace moves, and continued to increase its military spending and war rhetoric. Even today, George Fernandes was threatening Pakistan with war.

    In the light of the above bullying tactics by the alleged secular India, Pakistan has no option but to try and defend its border from the war mongering Indians. The need to purchase conventional arms is a must to increase the nuclear threshold. However, many people have argued, why bother with this? Why not go for a full-scale nuclear war and put the poor people of Pakistan and the alleged secular India out of their misery? I do not agree with this line of thought.

    I sincerely believe the alleged secular India has got its priorities wrong. They should try and learn a thing or two from Musharaf about nation building rather than war mongering. Whilst Musharaf tries to get the Pakistani economy and financial position in reasonable order (no thanks to the looting by previous so-called democratic governments), India is trying to engage Pakistan in an arms race.

    Dhir, before you say anything, yes I accept Pakistan is spending too much on defense. However, I also understand the mindset of the hawks in the Indian government who if not checked by Pakistani military capabilities, will not hesitate in trying to destroy Muslim Pakistan.

    #2
    I agree there is no need to go on war, its not going to do any good even to India. So far Musharaf is playing his role pretty neatly and wisely (as far as foreign policies are concerned), however he needs to concentrate more in making some concrete decisions/policies for the domestic business. Currently Pakistan is in a position to entice foreign investments, but for that we do need to first over come our domestic regional issues.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 2bornot2b:
      I also understand the mindset of the hawks in the Indian government who if not checked by Pakistani military capabilities, will not hesitate in trying to destroy Muslim Pakistan.
      Typical thinking of an average Pakistani!

      If Pakistan stops cross border terrorism, who will care about Pakistan in India? It is this lame Pakistani paranoia that makes them spend 40% of their revenues in Defence while they pay another 40% in debt repayment!


      Comment


        #4
        Kumar, you said Pakistan stop cross border Terrorism. Yeah right. By cracking down these people, you still say Pakistan is not doing anything. Why doesn't Indian stop Terrorism in Kashmir? Approximately, 700,000 Indian Soldiers are in Kashmir oppressing Kashmiris. Why doesn't India allow UN workers in Indian Held Kashmir? India also spend large amount of money just over weapon ass to oppress Kashmiris!

        Freesoul, you know what you are an idiot!

        *Play your game - Guess my motto*

        Comment


          #5
          pakistan tiger kashmir is stepping stone
          for pakistan to continue the hostilities.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kumarakn:
            Typical thinking of an average Pakistani!

            If Pakistan stops cross border terrorism, who will care about Pakistan in India? It is this lame Pakistani paranoia that makes them spend 40% of their revenues in Defence while they pay another 40% in debt repayment!


            Thank you for your contribution. This is very much appreciated as usual.

            The alleged Pakistani paranoia is now streching to the muslims in the alleged secular India, with the introduction of the bill (POTO) to subjugate and destroy the Muslims of that country.


            Comment


              #7
              Rvikz, what's your point then?

              *Play your game - Guess my motto*

              Comment


                #8
                Pakistan is facing a big dilemma at the moment. The allegedly secular India has been threatening its borders for sometime and is on a war footing with over one million soldiers ready to attack Pakistan.

                Pakistan has its own reasons, right. But Indian army is on border in strength only recently and Pakistan's defence budget was high anyways.
                You are right Pakistan now has to increase the defence spending cos Indian army is on the borders, that is what Pakistan was doing on India all along, albiet it was a low intensity war. Remember Kargil, Pakistan has a large army of irregulars/regulars (in disguise) who can simply infiltrate and to check on them there is no way out but to increase the spending on conventional methods, which in turn force Pakistan to spend proportionately. Moreover India has China riding its back on the other side, so India can always justify its spending, Pak or no Pak. What do you think justifies China's spending on maintaining a large combatant army of more than 3 million? There is no real conventional threat to them.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dhir, I hear what you are saying. However, I have (you have also quoted figures in another thread) shown that it is costing India a lot more than Pakistan in the current standoff, even if you take into account the percentage of GNP or the current reserves.

                  The point is both countries can better spend this money. India to feed the 500 million starving or below the poverty line, and Pakistan to continue its reforms.

                  I really don’t know what the current Indian govt. (bjp/rss/vhp nexus) is playing at? If they want a war, then they should just go for it rather than pussy footing around. However, my take on this is that India, having made this aggressive move is now really scared to take any action knowing Pakistani capabilities. India looking for a face saving way out. As you know, none of the demands made to the Pakistani government by the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus have been met.

                  Your comment about India having China riding on its back is ridiculous to say the least. If china was such a big problem, then why have most of your soldiers and artillery on Pakistani borders?

                  Finally, the large Chinese army you quoted is not necessarily combat ready. They, like in Pakistan, are used in many social and civil projects during peacetime. I believe they add efficiency to the projects. However, if I was in charge of civil/governmental projects I would just sack the lazy employees who are drawing salary for no reason because as you are probably aware, once you are in a government job there is hardly any way of getting rid of these lazy staff. Having said that, I believe India is moving in the right direction where they have relaxed the laws for guaranteeing ‘job for life’ to the governmental employees, and made it easier to get rid of the lazy staff. There are examples (certainly of people in governmental jobs in Pakistan) where they have turned up for work one day a month, and drawing full salaries.

                  Give peace a chance and accept the hand of friendship that Musharaf is offering. If it comes to a war (even conventional), both India and Pakistan will be put back at least 20 years. The destruction of India may suit the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus for the sake of a war and an opportunity to try and get rid of Muslims, but it may not suit the innocent people of India and Pakistan.

                  Have a I nice day.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    [QUOTE]Originally posted by dhir:
                    [Moreover India has China riding its back on the other side, so India can always justify its spending, Pak or no Pak. What do you think justifies China's spending on maintaining a large combatant army of more than 3 million? There is no real conventional threat to them.


                    I was waiting for the China card to be played before I dived in.
                    I agree with 2bornot2b. China does not pose any threat to India in immediate terms. Yes I agree that China worries India (and by implication the US) in strategic terms. We are almost ready to put a man in orbit. We might be the only country in 10 years time to be able to put a man on Mars as US has chickened out of this project.

                    Anyway getting back to the point, India has no excuse for its defence expenditure. How many times do we have to repeat that it is Indian self-fulfilling paranoia that feeds the demand to buy more arms. In China there is a saying...May you have the builders in.
                    In other words, you call builders at your own request and they give you problems. India has nurtured the RSS etc etc, hence called the builders in. Now it has to sort its own mess without involving our greatest ally, Pakistan, who gets blamed whenever an idiot feels like mouthing off.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      shangai joe thing are improving between
                      china and india

                      China upbeat on ties with India
                      http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/mar/28china2.htm

                      Comment


                        #12
                        However, I have (you have also quoted figures in another thread) shown that it is costing India a lot more than Pakistan in the current standoff, even if you take into account the percentage of GNP or the current reserves.

                        I just explained you that it was costing India much more than Pakistan anyway, irrespective of the current standoff – mainly due to low intensity warfare waged by Pakistan (you know whose policy it is to let India bleed through thousand cuts).

                        The point is both countries can better spend this money. India to feed the 500 million starving or below the poverty line, and Pakistan to continue its reforms.

                        Agree with you 100%.

                        I really don’t know what the current Indian govt. (bjp/rss/vhp nexus) is playing at? If they want a war, then they should just go for it rather than pussy footing around.

                        Nobody wants war. And Indian govt. is not pussy footing rather it is deliberate go-slow to keep constant pressure on Pak govt. in order for it to continue abide by what world community wants, check infiltrations, increase pak’s defence spending proportioinately for it to feel the pinch too.

                        However, my take on this is that India, having made this aggressive move is now really scared to take any action knowing Pakistani capabilities.

                        Wasn’t Pak capable when this aggressive move was taken in the first place. It was merely to call the bluff of Pak govt’s nuclear threat in the event of conventional posture by India (one of the reasons Pak is hesitant to declare no-first use).

                        As you know, none of the demands made to the Pakistani government by the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus have been met.

                        LeT and JeM were banned, isn’t it. They were one of the main demands apart from list of 20.

                        Your comment about India having China riding on its back is ridiculous to say the least. If china was such a big problem, then why have most of your soldiers and artillery on Pakistani borders?

                        cos Pakistan is prime and much bigger problem at the moment. China is not an immediate problem and India and China both are cooled down as far as border issues are concerned and are not on bad terms at all. But with a massive chinese army and technology India cannot lay back and allow it to expand at a later stage. But as I said, it is Pakistan which is an immediate threat.

                        Finally, the large Chinese army you quoted is not necessarily combat ready. They, like in Pakistan, are used in many social and civil projects during peacetime.

                        Do you think Indian army is not used in many social and civil projects during peacetime.

                        Having said that, I believe India is moving in the right direction where they have relaxed the laws for guaranteeing ‘job for life’ to the governmental employees, and made it easier to get rid of the lazy staff.

                        Right, and I think better late than never. India is slowly (too slow maybe) understanding that government is not a job-providing machinery, they have only to create the right systems that act as catalyst for a rapid economic development and leave other things to people themselves.

                        There are examples (certainly of people in governmental jobs in Pakistan) where they have turned up for work one day a month, and drawing full salaries.

                        Man, I can assure you India is no different. In fact most of these ills are common in India and Pakistan.

                        Give peace a chance and accept the hand of friendship that Musharaf is offering.

                        What happened in Kargil, wasn’t a hand forwarded to Pakistan and answered back with aggression. And what hand of friendship Musharraf is offering, he is saying we will talk but only on Kashmir and Pakistan’s point of discussion on Kashmir is Kashmir belongs to Pakistan.

                        [BThe destruction of India may suit the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus for the sake of a war and an opportunity to try and get rid of Muslims[/B]

                        In fact, I should say exactly the opposite. It may suit the military mindset of Pak govt. All the wars so far are fought under military leadership. Even Kargil, Sharif pleaded innocence and blamed it solely on Army. Regarding getting rid of muslims is concerned, Pakistan itself was created on the ground to get rid of muslims from India and have a pure land of its own, there is nothing new VHP/RSS is saying. Here, on this forum itself, a good number of guppies take pride in commenting that in case of war, hindus will be wiped out but muslims will still remain (explains the psychology).

                        it may not suit the innocent people of India and Pakistan. ]

                        Right again.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dhir, thank you for the comprehensive reply. However, I am afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on the points you disagreed with.

                          The only thing I would add is that the creation of Pakistan has been vindicated, as can be seen by the way in which the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus is treating Muslims in India.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 2bornot2b:
                            The only thing I would add is that the creation of Pakistan has been vindicated, as can be seen by the way in which the BJP/RSS/VHP nexus is treating Muslims in India.

                            Was there ever any doubt...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Wow! People here can relate Defense expenditure in south Asia with RSS-BJP-Muslim relationship in India.

                              Comment

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