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Defence Day - September 6

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  • PJ
    replied

    There is not even a doubt in my mind, this is a great day when so few stopped so many in the true and proud traditions of Islam and Pakistan.

    PAK FAUJJ ZINDABAD http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/soldier.gif
    PAKISTAN PAINDABAD http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif

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  • PureLand
    replied
    definitely an occasion to celebrate.

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  • Abdali
    replied
    Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
    The fact rests that on September 6th, there was an all-out Indian attack across the entire front of the then West Pakistan - and less than 3 weeks later all Indian units had been forced to retreat back to their side of the border, despite hugely outnumbering the Pakistani forces.

    Sounds suspiciously like a victory worth celebrating to me.....

    [This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited August 24, 2001).]
    I have the official Indian army report "Lost Victories" of 65 war its 22 meg in acrobat format I am looking for a place to put it on the net so guppies can down load it.

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  • mAd_ScIeNtIsT
    replied
    The fact rests that on September 6th, there was an all-out Indian attack across the entire front of the then West Pakistan - and less than 3 weeks later all Indian units had been forced to retreat back to their side of the border, despite hugely outnumbering the Pakistani forces.

    Sounds suspiciously like a victory worth celebrating to me.....

    [This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited August 24, 2001).]

    Leave a comment:


  • Abdali
    replied
    Eye witness accounts of 65 war through the eyes of reporters from around the world.

    During 1965 war, India's General Chaudri ordered his troops to march on Sialkot and Lahore - jauntily inviting his officers to join him for drinks that evening in lahore Gymkhana. He didn;t reckon on the Pakistani troops.
    "The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with pakistanis didn't get clobbered," said a report in Washington DC, America. "They just turned and ran, leving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind".

    I have been a journalist now for twenty years, 'reported American Broadcasting Corporation's Roy Maloni, "and want to go on record that I have never seen a more confident and victoroius group of soldiers than thosefighting for Pakistan, right now.

    "India is claiming all-out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady towards the front ... These muslims of pakistan are natural fighters and they ask for no quater and they give none. n any war, such as the one going on between India and Pakistan right now, the propoganda claims on either side are likely to be startling. But if I have to take bet today, my money would be on the Pakistan side."

    The London Daily Mirror reported: "There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop.

    "During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistani troops."

    "India", said the London Daily Times, "is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces."

    In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote: "Who can defeat a nation which knows how to play hide and seek with death".

    "... I will never forget the smile full of nerve the conducting army officers gave me. this smile told me how fearless and brave are the Pakistani young men.

    "Playing with fire to these men -- from the jawan to the general Officer Commanding -- was like children playing with marbles in the streets.

    "I asked the GOC, how is it that despite a small number you are overpowering the Indians?

    he looked at me, smiled and said: "if courage, bravery and patriotism were purchaseable commodities, then India have got them along with American aid."

    "Pakistan has been able to gain complete command of the air by literally knocking the Indian planes out of the skies, if they had not already run away."

    "Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistan's pilots and Indian officers' leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and a half to one in population and three to one three to one in size of armed forces."

    Sunday Times,
    London,
    September 19, 1965.


    "Pakistan's success in the air means that she has been able to redeploy her relatively small army -- professionally among the best in Asia -- with impunity, plugging gaps in the long front in the face of each Indian thrust."

    "By all accounts the courage displayed by the Pakistan Air Force pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical Battle of Britain during the last war."

    Patrick Seale,
    The Observer, London,
    September 12, 1965.


    "India is claiming all out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady stream towards the front."

    "If the Indian Air Force is so victorious, why has it not tried to halt this flow?. The answer is that it has been knocked from the skies by Pakistani planes."

    "These muslims of Pakistan are natural fighters and they ask for no quarter and they give none. In any war, such as the one going on between India and Pakistan right now, the propoganda claims on either side are likely to be startling. But if I have to take bet today, my money would be on the Pakistan side."

    "Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources."

    Roy Meloni,
    American Broadcasting Corporation
    September 15, 1965.


    "One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds."

    "Although the Air Force gladly gives most credit to the Army, this is perhaps over-generous. India with roughly five times greater air-power, expected an easy air-superiority. Her total failure to attain it may be seen retrospectively as a vital, possibly the most vital, of the whole conflict."

    "Nur Khan is an alert, incisive man of 41, who seems even less. For six years he was on secondment and responsible for running Pakistan's civil air-line, which, in a country where 'now' means sometime and 'sometime' means never, is a model of efficiency. he talks without the jargon of a press relations officer. He does not quibble abobut figures. Immediately one has confidence in what he says."

    "His estimates, proffered diffidently but with as much photographic evidence as possible, speak for themselves. Indian and Pakistani losses, he thinks, are in something like the ration of ten to one."

    "Yet, the quality of equipment, Nur insists, is less important than flying ability and determination. the Indians have no sense of purpose. The Pakistanis were defending their own country and willingly taking greater risks. 'The average bomber crews flew 15 to 20 sorties. My difficulty was restraining them, not pushing them on.' "

    "This is more than nationalistic pride. Talk to the pilots themselves and you get the same intense story."

    Peter Preston,
    The Guardian, London
    September 24, 1965.


    "One point particularly noted by military observers is that in their frist advances the Indians did not use air power effectively to support their troops. by contrast, the Pakistanis, with sophisticated timing, swooped in on Ambala airfield and destroyed some 25 Indian planes just after they had landed and were sitting on the ground out of fuel and powerless to escape (NOTE: PAF has not claimed any IAF aircraft during it's attacks on Ambala due to non-availability of concrete evidence of damage in night bombing.)"

    "By the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own."

    Everett G. Martin,
    General Editor, Newsweek
    September 20, 1965.


    "India's barbarity is mounting in fury as the Indian army and Air Force, severely mauled, are showing signs of demoralisation. The huge losses suffered by the Indian Armed Forces during the last 12 days of fighting could not be kept from the Indian public and in retaliation, the Indian armed forces are indulging in the most barbaric methods."

    "The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses...."

    Indonesian Herald
    September 11, 1965.

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  • Abdali
    replied
    Originally posted by Pristine:
    The other day I witnessed an interesting debate on whether its a good idea to celebrate the Defence of Pakistan Day (Sep 6), which is an occassion of much fanfare and defence exibits in Pakistan, every year.

    FOR:
    On one side of the argument is the glory of our brave sons of the soil, who defended the territorial integrity of Pakistan on the face of Indian attack in the night of September 6, 1965. They feel justified in showing solidarity with out military forces on this day and also use this as an occassion to boast of Pakistan's military might.

    AGAINST:
    The other side of the argument is those who say that war itself, and events of 1965 in particular, are a disgrace, and is no occassion to be celebrating anything. Rather it should be used as a moment to reflect, rather somberly, on the mistakes of the past and to ensure that we work for peace. Celebrating wars, to them, is the inapproriate thing to do.

    So, lets open this for debate. We all know that the events leading to the war of 1965 between India and Pakistan are prone to different versions and the war itself has produced many contradictory stories. So much so, that no one can make any claims as to how the war started without someone taking a completely contra view and presenting another theory. Needless to say that everyone will consider their version of the history as the most accurate and first-rate!

    So don't be shy. Come out with your thoughts and share with us.

    Should we or shouldn't we be celebrating the Defence Day (September 6)?
    How about the official Indian army report that was some how leaked by ToI just like Hamdur Rehman commission report.

    Its straight from the horses mouth. Its in acrobat format and about 25 meg. After reading the report I say we must celebrate Sept. 6th as a great victory and salute our martyrs.. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

    Leave a comment:


  • Pristine
    started a topic Defence Day - September 6

    Defence Day - September 6

    The other day I witnessed an interesting debate on whether its a good idea to celebrate the Defence of Pakistan Day (Sep 6), which is an occassion of much fanfare and defence exibits in Pakistan, every year.

    FOR:
    On one side of the argument is the glory of our brave sons of the soil, who defended the territorial integrity of Pakistan on the face of Indian attack in the night of September 6, 1965. They feel justified in showing solidarity with out military forces on this day and also use this as an occassion to boast of Pakistan's military might.

    AGAINST:
    The other side of the argument is those who say that war itself, and events of 1965 in particular, are a disgrace, and is no occassion to be celebrating anything. Rather it should be used as a moment to reflect, rather somberly, on the mistakes of the past and to ensure that we work for peace. Celebrating wars, to them, is the inapproriate thing to do.

    So, lets open this for debate. We all know that the events leading to the war of 1965 between India and Pakistan are prone to different versions and the war itself has produced many contradictory stories. So much so, that no one can make any claims as to how the war started without someone taking a completely contra view and presenting another theory. Needless to say that everyone will consider their version of the history as the most accurate and first-rate!

    So don't be shy. Come out with your thoughts and share with us.

    Should we or shouldn't we be celebrating the Defence Day (September 6)?
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