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    I wonder wonder....

    Recently I sat in for a friend who had to miss work due to an appointment. While working there as a receptionist that day, I started talking to one of the assistants there. I found out that she was married with a child and that she had gone to school to be an assistant. I went on to ask her what she wants to do with her life, thinking that she had what I deemed as bigger and better plans, but to my surprise, she said she liked what she is doing and wishes to remain an assistant for the better part of her life. I dont know why, but all of a sudden I felt sad for her. I was surprised at my own reaction. Why did I want her to get a better job, a better salary? Who am I to say what is best for her? Maybe she really enjoyed that work. Does that make her any less of a person if she is an assistant? Obviously not!

    I started wondering why some people are happy just doing what others deem "menial" jobs. I wondered why others aren't as ambitious, wanting to be nurses, doctors, business owners, etc. If you consider that the majority of the worlds population are blue-collar workers, it shouldnt really be a surprise. The question is, is it that these people who are happy being whatever they are, getting the "average" salary...is it that they never thought of being a lawyer or whatever, or is it the case that they never got the opportunity?

    Any comments? Thanks!

    ------------------
    Learn to love yourself, then learn to love one-another
    "O man! What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent?" - Quran 82:6

    Sponsor and choose an orphan at alyateem dot com

    #2
    i think its partly a cultural issue. we have been brought up to look up to the docs and engineers while we continue to treat the rest of jobs are menial. Hence when we see someone who is content with life we are totally shocked by that. This is also the way the educational system is setup to always achieve something better and continue imporving ourselves.

    As for the people who are in such a situation, I think mostly they did not have the opportunity and secondarily, at a certain age I think people decide that its not just about what they become but rather also about how they spend and live the rest of thier lifes. For a guy whos like 40 and with kids it probably does not make much sense for him to go back to school and start changing his life cause he has responsibilities to take care of that are more important to him then just getting a better career.

    Comment


      #3
      yes it is quit akward, how so many people dont want to be in the 'upper-class'. A friend of my siter, she stopped studdying, because she said: when i get married my husband will earn for me!!!!!! And manny people here think that way.
      It is cultural i think 2. The people did not earn much so they stopped believing that they could achieve manny things by studying.
      Sad actually, cuz information is amunition
      There is no salvation for the soul, But to fall in Love.
      It has to creep and crawl, Among the Lovers first.

      Imam Jallal-u-Din Rumi

      Comment


        #4
        Excellent topic! Thanks for posting it.

        I'd like to read what some other people have to say about it.

        Comment


          #5
          Very good topic Munni. I often think that too. I have encountered many people like that and i don't understand the what's the reason behind it. I would understand if someone doesn't have the opportunity becuz of some circumtances, but many people actually don't even want to think about going forward in their life. They are happy with the low salary they are getting even though they have the chance of changing it with some effort and they can live a better life.

          Comment


            #6
            A simple way of looking at it is...somebody has to do the job, so why not me.

            If everyone was a CEO, and noone wanted to be a secretary, the CEOs wouldnt have much to work withhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

            Its all about our perception of how we value the caliber of a certain job. In Pakistan, children are brought up to believe that anything other than a doctors or an engineering degree is worthless. But we fail to understand that if a mason didnt build an office, that doctor wouldnt have a clinic to run. If a sweeper didnt sweep that clinic, the doctor wouldnt have patients.

            Somehow we have grown to associate the number of years spent in school with the level of maturity/sensibility a person has.

            Munni, the lady you talked about might be making what, $10/hr right now. If she went to school, got a bachelors degree, and got a $30/hr job after that, would that be mainstream? What if she started a homebased gutter cleaning business without going to school, and managed to earn $30/hr with that as well? Her income increased in both the cases, and to the same levelhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif But the degree based job will be considered 'good' even if it brings in lesser money than the gutter cleaning business.

            I have several friends who are civil engineers. After an average of 10 yrs on the job and an EIT and PE certification, they claim that they will be commanding a yearly salary of $65K+. Now they work with carpenters and masons and builders and load handlers and signal bearers, laymen for the most part, people who perform manual work for the most part. And these workers working alongside these civil engineers command as much as twice the salaries of these engineers. And they get more benefits, and more vacations. So how do we really decide whos in a better position?

            For some, its just about money. This includes degree holding engineers who abandon their careers to open high grossing gas stations and grocery stores.

            For others, its just about keeping busy in something that will not take too much effort. Obviously money is not their top priority, mainly because they have a second source of income which is providing the main cash flow for their household, as may be the case of the lady who works with you.

            [This message has been edited by Akif (edited January 11, 2002).]

            Comment


              #7
              Heres an interesting snippet from the press.

              Mark Cuban is an internet billionaire, who is also the owner of Dallas Mavericks, an NBA team. Being the vocal person that he is, the other day, he chastised an NBA referee for what he thought was a bad call, by saying, "Ed Rush may have been a great ref, but I wouldn't hire him to manage a Dairy Queen". Apparently, he, being a CEO and owner, deems managing a Dairy Queen to be a menial jobhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

              Dairy Queen, in response said "Mr. Cuban may be surprised to find out how much it takes to manage a Dairy Queen. We invite Mr. Cuban in to manage a Dairy Queen for a day".

              I dont know whether Mr. Cuban will take Dairy Queen up on their offer or not, but its pretty evident you need more than just a billion dollars in your account to perform a job as 'menial' as running a Dairy Queenhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

              Comment


                #8
                How true Akif!

                Oh or shall I say Mrs. Modrator? http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

                Comment


                  #9
                  Akif and others,

                  What would you say about those who dont have a second income to support them and still want to work as lets say an assistant making whatever salary they make? That was the case with the lady I was working with. She was not much older than me, but rather quite content in what she was doing, and she was the sole provider. I didn't want to ask her if she had dreams of being a nurse incase she felt I was belittling her job, which I wasnt. By no means should individuals who work these jobs be looked down upon, I'm merely wondering if they WANT to have a better job and increased pay or do they not want it, does the thought ever cross their minds? Are they really satisfied in what they do?

                  ------------------
                  Learn to love yourself, then learn to love one-another
                  "O man! What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent?" - Quran 82:6

                  Sponsor and choose an orphan at alyateem dot com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Munni....

                    Whats the standard for a better job?

                    Right now the lady is an assistant. If she moved up the post of an executive assistant, that would be a better job, wouldnt it? But at that point you could say, if she got a college degree and moved up to a professional job with an even better pay and a flashy title, that would be even better than an executive assistant. But then you'd say that if she got a loan from a bank and opened up some consulting firm, she'd be raking in even more money, and would be the owner of her company, which would be even better. But then you could say that if she bought another couple of companys and increased her companys assets, that would be even better.

                    My point is, its all about supply and demand. If you live in a one bed apartment, and have two kids, you could probably live by on a assistant's salary. If she decides to go out and buy a mercedes, and puts a down payment on a $200,000 house at the same time, then she'd need a better paying job of course. But I assume she has her expenses under control, which is why she may not feel the need to go beyond her current income level.

                    Lastly, there is a vast majority of people, for whom its more important to be comfortable in what they do, rather than make lots of money from it, or have a big name in it. Once such people find their comfort zone, they tend to stick to it, regardless of how stagnant their practical life becomes.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Akif:
                      A simple way of looking at it is...somebody has to do the job, so why not me.

                      If everyone was a CEO, and noone wanted to be a secretary, the CEOs wouldnt have much to work withhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

                      Its all about our perception of how we value the caliber of a certain job. In Pakistan, children are brought up to believe that anything other than a doctors or an engineering degree is worthless. But we fail to understand that if a mason didnt build an office, that doctor wouldnt have a clinic to run. If a sweeper didnt sweep that clinic, the doctor wouldnt have patients.

                      Somehow we have grown to associate the number of years spent in school with the level of maturity/sensibility a person has.

                      Munni, the lady you talked about might be making what, $10/hr right now. If she went to school, got a bachelors degree, and got a $30/hr job after that, would that be mainstream? What if she started a homebased gutter cleaning business without going to school, and managed to earn $30/hr with that as well? Her income increased in both the cases, and to the same levelhttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif But the degree based job will be considered 'good' even if it brings in lesser money than the gutter cleaning business.

                      I have several friends who are civil engineers. After an average of 10 yrs on the job and an EIT and PE certification, they claim that they will be commanding a yearly salary of $65K+. Now they work with carpenters and masons and builders and load handlers and signal bearers, laymen for the most part, people who perform manual work for the most part. And these workers working alongside these civil engineers command as much as twice the salaries of these engineers. And they get more benefits, and more vacations. So how do we really decide whos in a better position?

                      For some, its just about money. This includes degree holding engineers who abandon their careers to open high grossing gas stations and grocery stores.

                      For others, its just about keeping busy in something that will not take too much effort. Obviously money is not their top priority, mainly because they have a second source of income which is providing the main cash flow for their household, as may be the case of the lady who works with you.

                      [This message has been edited by Akif (edited January 11, 2002).]
                      First of all, mr/mrs ???? Akif, when 2 people go for a job, : a studyd person and an unstudyd person, many/always, they choose the person with the higher degree. And personally, i think i can talk(most of the times) easier to a person who is studied, because his/her interests are another direction. Here in Holland, the pakistani people who are not studied always talk about gf/bf marriage , going out, and just talking about other people. And u know when those people grow up, they are ALWAYS sorry that they did not study. Education isnt only good for the money, but its also good to learn how to think and solve problems.
                      I have to agee with M.

                      But yes mr/mrs?? Akif, sometime people are happy with what they have. And that is because(i think) they have never checked anything better than that, so:
                      some of us are satisfied with what we have,
                      untill we taste something better.

                      [This message has been edited by dutch_paki (edited January 14, 2002).]
                      There is no salvation for the soul, But to fall in Love.
                      It has to creep and crawl, Among the Lovers first.

                      Imam Jallal-u-Din Rumi

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think it all depends on what you are feeling doing and not what others think is a menial or "low" job. Like Akif pointed out, your job might be good for you but for others just a menial or regular job. This lady might be happy as her receptionist job and having somekind of hobby to keep her busy and satisfied otherwise. People dont have to be only ambitious on career issues, some just like a simple, carefree, unchallenging and routine life/job and are quite happy the way they are not wanting so much changes in life.

                        Where as basis education is important, but it does not necessary has to be in form of degrees and certificates. It all depends on your interests and they differ from person to person, where as some like to be doctors, others are interested in business & finance, computers or some just like living a life without career stress and too much ups and downs(which might be better for your health).




                        [This message has been edited by SADI (edited January 14, 2002).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Somtimes I wish I was a roadsweeper....fresh air...not much reponsibilty and fag breaks when you want......but then I realise aspriring to such heights will get me nowhere....I gotta knuckle down and do my average everyday job....but you gotta dream baby.....gotta dream.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Thap:
                            Somtimes I wish I was a
                            roadsweeper....fresh air...not much reponsibilty and fag breaks when you want......but then I realise aspriring to such heights will get me nowhere....I gotta knuckle down and do my average everyday job....but you gotta dream baby.....gotta dream.
                            http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/clown.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
                            Yes a roadsweper http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif fresh air(storm 2 degrees below 0, snow, rain), low income, and everybody who looks down on u http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
                            thtas a nice job!!!
                            There is no salvation for the soul, But to fall in Love.
                            It has to creep and crawl, Among the Lovers first.

                            Imam Jallal-u-Din Rumi

                            Comment


                              #15
                              [QUOTE]Originally posted by dutch_paki:
                              First of all, mr/mrs ???? Akif, when 2 people go for a job, : a studyd person and an unstudyd person, many/always, they choose the person with the higher degree.

                              Thats only when two people are applying for the exact same job. But thats not whats under question here though. The primary objective of having a job is to make money of course. And I believe its more important to figure out what YOU want out of your life, rather than figure out what the market wants out of their prospective employees.

                              And personally, i think i can talk(most of the times) easier to a person who is studied, because his/her interests are another direction.

                              Thats normal, more in the sense that you would get along better with a person who shares your interests and qualifications. As a doctor, you would find it easier to talk to another doctor, as you would to an engineer. If you got into a conversation regarding electronics with an engineer, it might not make any sense to you if you were a doctor. So its not just about having a college education..its more about sharing common interests.

                              Here in Holland, the pakistani people who are not studied always talk about gf/bf marriage , going out, and just talking about other people.

                              True, but that goes both ways. This attitude is not limited to uneducated people. Here in the USA, there are organizations dedicated to organizing dance and drink parties for 'professionals'. Go figure.

                              And u know when those people grow up, they are ALWAYS sorry that they did not study. Education isnt only good for the money, but its also good to learn how to think and solve problems.

                              I know several civil engineers, who went to school for 17 years to get a masters degree, and then cleared the gruesome EIT and PE certifications. In the end, several of them chose to go for a 2 month course in Oracle, and get a job in computers, thus guttering away the 17 yrs they spent in getting their civil engineers degreehttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

                              Im not discounting the value of education, not at all. However, education is not the only thing that dictates our practical courses of action.

                              But yes mr/mrs?? Akif, sometime people are happy with what they have. And that is because(i think) they have never checked anything better than that, so:
                              some of us are satisfied with what we have,
                              untill we taste something better.


                              For most, its a combination of several factors. Its not simply about money, or about tasting something better. Its about so many other factors, that include ones personal life as well. A better paying job will include more responsibilities as well..and that would mean less time for the family. So 'something better' would involve a lot more scrutiny than just a better pay, or a better degree or a better office.

                              Mr./Mrs Akif

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