What is your version of sabr?

[Reha]

Let's say you're married and your partner is good to you.

He/She (it could happen to either party) has been a good spouse but somewhere along the way they developed some...bad habits. Habits that can be self destructive as well as fatal for a marriage:

Drugs
Alcohol
Gambling

They're not abusive but do have these problems.

What would you do? Would you get them help? Would you leave to teach them a lesson?

[Deeba1234]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Try and get them help but if they flat out refuse set a time limit then leave.. Sabr means having patience but at the same time also trying to do something to fix the situation.. the last bit is something that's often conveniently ignored by culture (well when it's the husband doing it)..

Sabr is NOT waiting around forever doing nothing thinking you'll be rewarded for it..

[chaibiskut]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

There's a difference between patience and codependency.

I dunno, unless these addictions were triggered by life-changing trauma one was witness to, I doubt that drugs, alcohol, and gambling are habits casually developed along the way, like picking one's nose or something. If it does happen post-marriage, it's a case of red flags being ignored/missed during the dating/rishta process. I could maybe see not anticipating a drug problem if it's an abuse of prescription drugs or something. You can get help for that. Anything else, I'd be seriously questioning myself.

[Paheli00]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Let's say you're married and your partner is good to you.

He/She (it could happen to either party) has been a good spouse but somewhere along the way they developed some...bad habits. Habits that can be self destructive as well as fatal for a marriage:

Drugs
Alcohol
Gambling

They're not abusive but do have these problems.

What would you do? Would you get them help? Would you leave to teach them a lesson?

Well, I would probably have more "sabr" if its just us. *BUT* if there are children involved in the picture, anything that threatens them is a deal-breaker for me. Not only would I not want my kids threatened....I also would not want my children growing up with someone with those habits and thinking that they're "ok".

1) Drug addiction: If there are children in the picture, then discovery of this would be immediate cause for separation. I don't know why any mother would want her children living with a drug addict. Personally, I would separate and allow him reasonable time to work on his addiction. If he refuses to work on it....then yes, after some time, divorce would happen.

2) Gambling: Although I would not separate immediately, if after some time he refuses to recognize this as a problem and work on it.....then yes....I would not "put up" with this forver. The last thing I need is to find out that my husband gambled away our life savings or our children's college fund simply b/c I didn't have the courage to stand up for us (me and the kids).

[Demilitarize]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Try and get them help but if they flat out refuse set a time limit then leave.. Sabr means having patience but at the same time also trying to do something to fix the situation.. the last bit is something that's often conveniently ignored by culture (well when it's the husband doing it)..

Sabr is NOT waiting around forever doing nothing thinking you'll be rewarded for it..

Isnt it? It is said that "Allah sabireen ke sath hen" .... surely those who do sabr indefinitely have their reward with Allah?

[mirage]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

i dont believe sabr is justifiable or even in the context in this regard. If you really love and care for your partner you will not sit back and mind your own business and play sabr. You will rather stand up for them and help them giving up the habit or anything that is destructive for them. Otherwise you have to blame yourself too for your timidity and indifference.

[Demilitarize]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

I think sabr karna doesnt mean u dont do anything positive. Do something positive. try helping him out. Sabr karna just means, dont give up. Try and try and try, and when nothing works, then have patience and leave it to Allah's will and have sabr

i dont believe sabr is justifiable or even in the context in this regard. If you really love and care for your partner you will not sit back and mind your own business and play sabr. You will rather stand up for them and help them giving up the habit or anything that is destructive for them. Otherwise you have to blame yourself too for your timidity and indifference.

[psyah]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

I think the question is impossible to entertain ...

On one hand the person has developed an addiction - "so where was the spouse prior to the addiction phase?" and on the second hand we expect that the problem does not lead to abuse ... but physical abuse is not the only reason for leaving someone. There is abusing their family wealth ... So many families have gone to pot over drug, alcohol and gambling addictions and the addictive nature is apparently in that order ...

Many times the spouse is the one who causes the problem by ignoring it ... and ignoring problems is not the same as doing sabr. In this case sabr is the wrong action to take.

Sabr is undertaken in the case when we do all of our Islamic duties and when fate sends us hardships ... that is when sabr should be done ... If we live for the dunya and put burdens on ourselves and on our partners without seeking help from Allah (SWT) or by bending the rules Allah (SWT) has given us then when problems occur we think we need to be patient ... do we even question the problems are self created?

If the spouse let's him/herself get into those circles and the other one is being myopic to it ... if the other one is too demanding and makes the spouse "do anything" to get what they "want" ...

Imagine a gangster has been caught ... don't you think his wife or mother will say "We should do sabr" or they will be telling him to do sabr ... Why do we create the environment that will test us? And if we don't create it then why do we let it become created and we only intervene when it is already too late?

We should deal with the problem ... even if it is the once and we discovered it ...

The way to deal with it is to change the environment of the person completely and if possible tag them with a pious friend who occupies their time. They will not change until they want to change and it is paramount to weaken the desire - this can be done by fasting, sleeping less and much 'ibadaat ... otherwise their desires will always conquer them.

My version of sabr in this case will be to have sabr in correcting the addiction ... and not stopping until it is corrected ...

The time to leave would be:

a) If you do not have the energy to continue correcting it
b) If by correcting it ... it begins to cause injustices in the family - i.e. poverty, etc

[NaMaan]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Stick and carrot rule . Something on the lines of 'Quit gambling or no more home cooked food' .

[Deeba1234]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Isnt it? It is said that "Allah sabireen ke sath hen" .... surely those who do sabr indefinitely have their reward with Allah?

Check out the Sunnipath site for a complete explanation.. I found this but there is a fuller answer somewhere on there as well if you do a search:

Seek help through Sabr and Salat (Quran 2:45)

This instruction from Allah provides us with two critical tools that can ease our worries and pain. Patience and prayer are two oft-neglected stressbusters. Sabr is often translated as patience but it is not just that. It includes self-control, perseverance, endurance, and a focused struggle to achieve one's goal.

Unlike patience, which implies resignation, the concept of Sabr includes a duty to remain steadfast to achieve your goals despite all odds.

Tie your Camel: DO YOUR PART

One day Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah" (Tirmidhi).

Muslims must never become fatalistic. Although we know only Allah is in control and that He has decreed all things, we are each responsible for making the right choices and doing the right thing in all situations of our lives. We must take action (link to planning articles on SV). We must work to alleviate the hardships we, our families and our communities face.

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=1948&CATE=17

Looking at it logically as well why would Allah reward anyone for suffering by *choosing* to stay helpless?

[Demilitarize]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

I am in complete agreement with u
but when faced with a brick wall, rather than quitting the situation, you should try sabr. thats all i meant to say

sabr is a big thing with me. the last words of my late grandfather were these "beta, agar mey aapko kuch bhi kahun ga toh woh yeh hey ke sabr karna, Allah sabireen ke sath hen"

Check out the Sunnipath site for a complete explanation.. I found this but there is a fuller answer somewhere on there as well if you do a search:

Seek help through Sabr and Salat (Quran 2:45)

This instruction from Allah provides us with two critical tools that can ease our worries and pain. Patience and prayer are two oft-neglected stressbusters. Sabr is often translated as patience but it is not just that. It includes self-control, perseverance, endurance, and a focused struggle to achieve one's goal.

Unlike patience, which implies resignation, the concept of Sabr includes a duty to remain steadfast to achieve your goals despite all odds.

Tie your Camel: DO YOUR PART

One day Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah" (Tirmidhi).

Muslims must never become fatalistic. Although we know only Allah is in control and that He has decreed all things, we are each responsible for making the right choices and doing the right thing in all situations of our lives. We must take action (link to planning articles on SV). We must work to alleviate the hardships we, our families and our communities face.

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=1948&CATE=17

Looking at it logically as well why would Allah reward anyone for suffering by *choosing* to stay helpless?

[Decent 6Chora]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Let's say you're married and your partner is good to you.

He/She (it could happen to either party) has been a good spouse but somewhere along the way they developed some...bad habits. Habits that can be self destructive as well as fatal for a marriage:

Drugs
Alcohol
Gambling

They're not abusive but do have these problems.

What would you do? Would you get them help? Would you leave to teach them a lesson?

First, there isn't a bad habit that's not abusive in long run. Abuse is not only physical but emotional and monetary abuse.

Secondly, If I love my spouse, I'll try to help her get rid of the habit as much as I can. Using all the tools from my love and company to external help like seeing dr etc. If the bad habit just goes on and on even after all these remedies, my mind will automatically start thinking about how can I save my kids from effects and once that is in my mind, I am sure I'll be ready to take any step that can help save my kids from it and yes that includes leaving them initially temporarily though giving her one more chance....

[yourfriend]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

I am in complete agreement with u
but when faced with a brick wall, rather than quitting the situation, you should try sabr. thats all i meant to say

sabr is a big thing with me. the last words of my late grandfather were these "beta, agar mey aapko kuch bhi kahun ga toh woh yeh hey ke sabr karna, Allah sabireen ke sath hen"

its not called sabr...
....its called Jabr on yourself ...and you will be rewarded for that???

[Demilitarize]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

yes you will be rewarded for bearing with adversity. you will be rewarded based on the neeyat with which you bear adversity, in hopes for a reward from Allah.

[Reha]

Re: What is your version of sabr?

Isnt it? It is said that "Allah sabireen ke sath hen" .... surely those who do sabr indefinitely have their reward with Allah?

Allah sabireen ke saat hein...this is true.

But I don't think sabr means sticking around in every case. I think sabr can mean cutting your losses and moving on without holding grudges or being bitter. Sabr can mean being the bigger person and forgiving. Sabr can mean trying to be friends with your ex for the sake of your children so they don't have to see the negativity. Sabr can take many forms.

I will never be in favor of just walking away without trying. But what I do not support is thinking Allah swt will reward you for suffering. Since when is human suffering rewarded? Is it?

When Allah swt gives you life...he also gives you the right AND responsibility to care for it and live it.