Marriage

[Exoduss]

^ Kaash itne pyaar se pehle samjha diye hote

[decentGuy]

^^^ You've rightly summed up my point of view. That is the scholarly consensus of the 4 fiqhs. I do understand some people do not agree with that point of view but I can agree to disagree.

I think many men are bound to develop extramarital relations and giving the rights of a wife to such a woman while adding to the responsibilities of such a man is most appropriate. It will indirectly benefit countless women in society who would otherwise remain unmarried. I also think Muslims living in such countries where keeping multiple wives is not allowed, should advocate for that rather than shy away.

As far as slavery is concerned, the rules around it are still active according to all 4 fiqhs, so if a Muslim military takes and keeps slaves according to those rules, that is perfectly fine by me. That is the best way to eventually re-integrate those prisoners back into society.

[krash]

There is only 1 interpretation of Quran and Sunnat which is correct. Anything else to suit someone's whims and desires is null and void by all 4 fiqhs.

PS: Javaid Ghamdi is himself a misled person who is misleading others.

I understand the points you are making. You are saying,
There is only one interpretation of Quran and that is the one practiced by the Prophet
There can be no change to this interpretation on matters that have already been ruled on. If new situations arise then the interpretation can be extended by consensus of scholars.

I respectfully disagree on both points.
The Prophet's interpretation is what we call Sunnah. As long as the Prophet walked among the people this was the unquestioned interpretation.
After that it was up to the muslims to interpret the Quran in the light of the Sunnah. This naturally led to disagreements and diversity of opinion. None of these interpretations have the finality or infallibility of the Quran and Sunnah. The Prophet himself called disagreement among his ummah a blessing so that they may not end up considering one interpretation as final which would be tantamount to raising the work of the scholars to the level of the Quran and Sunnah.

Even matters that have been ruled on by scholarly interpretations can be changed because social, political and technological changes can throw light on the motivations of the original interpretations and can point to new interpretations based on new knowledge. The most glaring example is the case of slavery. No muslim scholar today supports the interpretation on which there was a consensus of scholars a few centuries ago.

[Exoduss]

You're the one constantly on a mission tryna irk me here, whilst all I do is continue to be nothing but a clown wishing to cooperate and be patient

I wouldn't feel offended if you asked me about the same though. The day my father decides to barge in with a new wife is when he chooses to risk losing a limb or two by my twelve year old self

[decentGuy]

You have this bad habit of bringing in other poster's family into discussion. Are your arguments not strong enough on their own ? I guess not.

[Exoduss]

Your colorful language may not be there, but here is one hadees:

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4802) and Muslim (1466) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (pbuh) who said: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).

<<< That is a completely wrong way of thinking about having multiple wives.

1- Marriage is for "sexual needs" foremost. If that need is not being satisfied despite being married then it is a big problem. In fact Islam teaches men to inquire about beauty before inquiring about piousness of a woman. It's not about dazzling beauty, but acceptable beauty that looking at her would make him feel happy. Nor it is about ignoring her piousness and other qualities.

I'm colorful because I watch/make movies, remember? Mustn't take someone's kindness as their weakness, more so when they wouldn't skip a beat making a movie based on and about your legendary soul. Should it be okay to you if your father brought in a new wife when you were twelve?

So no part of the verse suggests marrying for sexual needs is acceptable, like you said

Muslims dominated in science during the 6xx-12xxAD era. Science only had one language back then and it was called Arabic. Before the Muslims were China and India, then in came the Europeans to lead in science. Things clearly were a lot more different than they are today

[decentGuy]

I asked for a verse that explicitly said men marrying only to fulfill their sexual needs is termed as halal in Islam

Your colorful language may not be there, but here is one hadees:

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4802) and Muslim (1466) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (pbuh) who said: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).

Rest you can believe whatever you want.

[Exoduss]

Islam makes no distinction among 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th marriage in terms of reasons, rights or responsibilities. It only caps the number of concurrent wives at 4 and being fair in distribution. So if satisfaction of sexual needs is the foremost motivation for 1st marriage, it is the foremost motivation for 2nd, 3rd and 4th marriage as well.

Most likely you have seen it in movies because it would be so rare that children got traumatized by the father's new wife in the presence of children's mother, who is married and living with the father already. Anyway, I do see your point there. That trauma is far less than the trauma of children whose parents are divorced. If we go by western ideology, in order to get the new wife, children's father must divorce children's mother first.

I asked for a verse that explicitly said men marrying only to fulfill their sexual needs is termed as halal in Islam

Injustice technically is done the day you decide to bring in home a young trophy wife fit enough to be your daughter, that too without the consent of your first. Monogamy and fidelity put aside, the least that needs to be done here is to have the decency to declare his future ideas before marrying the first time, rather than forcing his wife to be in a position she never ever imagined she'd have to be in

Islam does not say first cousin marriage is prohibited, neither does it recommend it over non cousin marriages. Cycling back a few 1000 years people in certain tribes preferred the former so they could keep their wealth within the family, mustn't mean what worked back then has to be as effective today

Pitching a second wife to your first is easy, but picturing yourself having a second step mother for some reason is not. Expect women to work with other women when you can't withstand her being with a different man. Cute.

[Exoduss]

Lol, my bad! :-/

[Exoduss]

There is only 1 interpretation of Quran and Sunnat which is correct. Anything else to suit someone's whims and desires is null and void by all 4 fiqhs.

PS: Javaid Ghamdi is himself a misled person who is misleading others.

People are brought up to interpret religious texts suiting their needs, and/or their sexual desires. You do yours whilst I do mine

[decentGuy]

Traditionally, Islam=Quran+Sunnah+Interpretation of scholars
It's the last element that has always been subject to change

youtube.com/watch?v=fJoI-8ZyvXs&t=2772s

There is only 1 interpretation of Quran and Sunnat which is correct. Anything else to suit someone's whims and desires is null and void by all 4 fiqhs.

PS: Javaid Ghamdi is himself a misled person who is misleading others.

[krash]

If you or someone else want to change Islam to suite their own thinking, you are not alone. Feel free to go ahead with the changes. New and improved version of Islam, approved by Department of Justice. That has been happening since the time of the prophet (pbuh). People who want to change themselves instead, have also been there and continue to be here.

Traditionally, Islam=Quran+Sunnah+Interpretation of scholars
It's the last element that has always been subject to change

youtube.com/watch?v=fJoI-8ZyvXs&t=2772s

[decentGuy]

Quran is silent on the issue of permission of first wife to take a second wife. The 4 fiqh have inferred that permission is not needed. Certainly, a ruling on which all 4 schools of fiqh agree should be taken seriously and not treated lightly. However, does that mean it is to be considered infallible and binding for all time to come and cannot be revisited? If that were the case we would still be owning slaves.

If you or someone else want to change Islam to suite their own thinking, you are not alone. Feel free to go ahead with the changes. New and improved version of Islam, approved by Department of Justice. That has been happening since the time of the prophet (pbuh). People who want to change themselves instead, have also been there and continue to be here.

[krash]

^^ Simple translations are not the way to interpret the orders of Allah. There is no difference of opinion among the 4 fiqhs on the matter of a man seeking permission from any of his wives. No permission is needed. What you quoted was about daughter of Abu Jahal as the possible 2nd wife.

Quran is silent on the issue of permission of first wife to take a second wife. The 4 fiqh have inferred that permission is not needed. Certainly, a ruling on which all 4 schools of fiqh agree should be taken seriously and not treated lightly. However, does that mean it is to be considered infallible and binding for all time to come and cannot be revisited? If that were the case we would still be owning slaves.

[Bobby1]

In the end, no two relationships are the same and adults have to decide. Staying in marriage is not a reward. Yes if the husband is caring, kind, nurturing, drives kids back and forth, helps in cooking and cleaning etc than he has value. If he is a misogynist, angry twerp who is emotionally damaging the kids than it is way better for women to take the house, keep the kids, take the money and kick him to the curb.

When kids are young, a good man would not have time to even have romance with his wife, let alone a new one. I am sure your friend is a misogynist and does not help raising the kids and/or help with the house.

Show me the math on time, how is it even possible with young kids??