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Frustrated - how to deal with my man child husband

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    #16
    Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post
    But for those of you saying that it’s totally okay for the husband to be soooo damn la-parwah that he can’t even pick up a plate that fell right in front of him (because he is full-time kamanay wala that works longer hours).......THEN I will leave you with something my mom says:

    ”Even a cow or a majjh will move its tail about to make the ground it sits upon a bit cleaner.” (moral of the quote: don’t be worse than the majjh)
    This sort of behavior is instilled into a child by the mother. I grew up with a mother who has had one health related issue after another, and has almost met her maker on more than one occasion. She thought us from a very young age, to fend for ourselves, and if it wasn't for her, me and my brother would grow up to be just like any other desi guy, too pampered to ever be worth anything.
    "Some people believe that necessity is the mother of Invention, but they're wrong, its War" - James May

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

      Funny how your life stories are exactly that of redvelvet.
      I've seen you bring this up several times. Why would RV use a multi? Why would she go through the trouble of making a new user account, when she has had an excellent repo amongst members of this community?.

      Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post
      I hardly see any thriving realtionships between the 100s of desis I know, Just being on twitter it seems that almost all Pak back ground men subscribe to patriarchy and believe in gender roles and see cooking, cleaning and looking after kids as a womans role, and many women from twitter have an incredible sense of entitlement where they feel that they are entitled to the sky and the moon. Raising one kid is not a mammoth task, Sam raised 2 most amazing girls, worked full time, put them into sports and all, so it is possible for OP to look at her schedule and see why this is so overwhelming.
      Nothing on Twitter should be taken seriously. Especially, desi-twitter or muslim-twitter.

      Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post
      The biggest rule in relationshio is 1/10 rule, means anything negative you do negates 10 good acts, him being taken to court, being criticized, yelled at and disrespected and the expectation is he is going to be full of love and caring?

      He seems to be there only for the kid. Best case scenario is they both move along and yelling in front of kid is extremely destructive and most good parents would not do that. What message does that send to the kid?
      Surprisingly, I agree with you on this one.
      "Some people believe that necessity is the mother of Invention, but they're wrong, its War" - James May

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by a7mado View Post

        This sort of behavior is instilled into a child by the mother. I grew up with a mother who has had one health related issue after another, and has almost met her maker on more than one occasion. She thought us from a very young age, to fend for ourselves, and if it wasn't for her, me and my brother would grow up to be just like any other desi guy, too pampered to ever be worth anything.
        A7mado, how long should one continue to blame their failures on their upbringing? At some point, people have to move on from the mistakes of their parents and better themselves.

        People are not reading Op’s post carefully. I’m trying to see it from both angles, from Coffeegirl’s as well as her husband’s. Everyone thus far has expressed disapproval for her yelling at her husband and rightly so. Thankfully she has admitted to this fault and will hopefully try to rectify her behavior going forward.

        Secondly, it’s unreasonable for her to expect her husband to be an expert in every chore. She’s gotta understand that he will fumble with the tasks that she is adept at because he is not used to doing them.She has to let some things go. If he’s not that passionate about decor and arranging social shindigs, then don’t guilt him for it.

        The home belongs to everyone and to totally exempt a person from any and all domestic tasks on the basis of having longer work hours is ridiculous. Yes, the longer hours warrants some leniency. But not total exemption.

        With this kind of logic, what’s next? Telling your teenaged child that they don’t have to clean up at home cuz they have a full load of classes and expect the 4-year-old to do the chores because they don’t get homework? Um, no. The teenager does their part. The 4-year-old does their part.

        The little things add up and wear a person down mentally over time. It’s exhausting that someone should wait for you to come clean a spill that they witnessed and you didn’t.

        There is some sort of disconnect between this couple. It’s like there are underlying issues are creating distance between them and have to be addressed.

        And of course Coffeegirl has done what many posters here do: Create a thread to vent and then disappear instead of returning to clarify questions.

        Anyhoo....
        Last edited by The Last Straw; Aug 16, 2021, 09:00 PM. Reason: .
        Hi Frendzz! I am a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi!

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post

          A7mado, how long should one continue to blame their failures on their upbringing? At some point, people have to move on from the mistakes of their parents and better themselves.

          People are not reading Op’s post carefully. I’m trying to see it from both angles, from Coffeegirl’s as well as her husband’s. Everyone thus far has expressed disapproval for her yelling at her husband and rightly so. Thankfully she has admitted to this fault and will hopefully try to rectify her behavior going forward.

          Secondly, it’s unreasonable for her to expect her husband to be an expert in every chore. She’s gotta understand that he will fumble with the tasks that she is adept at because he is not used to doing them.She has to let some things go. If he’s not that passionate about decor and arranging social shindigs, then don’t guilt him for it.

          The home belongs to everyone and to totally exempt a person from any and all domestic tasks on the basis of having longer work hours is ridiculous. Yes, the longer hours warrants some leniency. But not total exemption.

          With this kind of logic, what’s next? Telling your teenaged child that they don’t have to clean up at home cuz they have a full load of classes and expect the 4-year-old to do the chores because they don’t get homework? Um, no. The teenager does their part. The 4-year-old does their part.

          The little things add up and wear a person down mentally over time. It’s exhausting that someone should wait for you to come clean a spill that they witnessed and you didn’t.

          There is some sort of disconnect between this couple. It’s like there are underlying issues are creating distance between them and have to be addressed.

          And of course Coffeegirl has done what many posters here do: Create a thread to vent and then disappear instead of returning to clarify questions.

          Anyhoo....
          While I agree with most of what you've said, I would disagree with the bit in the beginning. I'll tell you why people refuse to change despite everything and why the parents are always to blame for what their kid turns out to be when they grow up.

          The best time to groom a child is before their teenage years, you can pretty much get them to do anything, because at that age, they are so impressionable. But if you keep telling yourself that the child is too young to do anything right now, and that you'd wait for their teenage years to come around before you even try to instill basics of human etiquettes and morals into them, then its already too late and they will never learn.

          The first 10 years of a kids life is where you teach them 90% of everything on how they're supposed to act as grown-ups, otherwise you can forget about it. Because, expecting someone to change who they are while they're in the 20's, 30's or older is nigh-on-impossible.
          "Some people believe that necessity is the mother of Invention, but they're wrong, its War" - James May

          Comment


          • The Last Straw
            The Last Straw commented
            Editing a comment
            It’s not easy, for sure. But there’s no shortage of people of have undergone changes and n character or who have come our of addictions or who have dropped habits and taken up new ones. It can be done.

            There’s a psychologist by the name of Laura Schlesinger who says that people can only blame their parents up to a point and then they have to take ownership of their lives.

            But we can agree to disagree.

          • a7mado
            a7mado commented
            Editing a comment
            The Last Straw

            We certainly can.

          #20
          At the end of the day, this is a fairly common story in households - one partner has a different idea of needed cleaning and chores. Maybe start small and assign him a household task to take ownership of. But if he doesnt see the point in any of it, maybe hire a cleaning person to show up once in a couple of weeks or something.
          Simple ain't easy.

          Comment


            #21
            Originally posted by a7mado View Post

            While I agree with most of what you've said, I would disagree with the bit in the beginning. I'll tell you why people refuse to change despite everything and why the parents are always to blame for what their kid turns out to be when they grow up.

            The best time to groom a child is before their teenage years, you can pretty much get them to do anything, because at that age, they are so impressionable. But if you keep telling yourself that the child is too young to do anything right now, and that you'd wait for their teenage years to come around before you even try to instill basics of human etiquettes and morals into them, then its already too late and they will never learn.

            The first 10 years of a kids life is where you teach them 90% of everything on how they're supposed to act as grown-ups, otherwise you can forget about it. Because, expecting someone to change who they are while they're in the 20's, 30's or older is nigh-on-impossible.
            Hi,

            I haven't disappeared. I think a few misunderstandings do need to be cleared up. I do not shout but on this one occasion I did lose it, this was after telling my husband to iron my daughters shirt nicely for a few times after which he proceeded to say no he won't. The shirt was so small because of the wrinkles that any sane person would think she had come out of the gutter and not with her father who should be looking after her basic needs. she had a massive booger coming out of her nose which no one needs to see to be able to remove. sorry for those who don't want the details.

            Background, I know he is not an expert and I don't expect him to be. I have guided him nicely and kindly for a few weeks/but to still see no change is horrible. It's almost like he purposely does to get me riled up. I have put a system in place and made it so damn easy of where her clothes are where her shoes are everything yet he takes no heed.

            The point of posting was that, he is a nice man - he will do all the manly things around the house. He will protect me outside and I never have to worry about being unsafe or hitting into a problem outside that he can't solve but he is litterley like a teenager. His sister who is almost like my best friend says to me that it was a very traditional house and the men were never brought up to housework etc. the problem is just this. a7mado has rightly put it, there are times when I feel like I'm just putting up with a teenager and I don't condone physical punishment but sometimes I think all he needs is a parent figure/elder to give him a jutta and say that he shouldn't be doing this or having this sort of attitude. I as a wife cannot do that and I think he can only change if he has that in himself but he just doesn't

            Comment


            • a7mado
              a7mado commented
              Editing a comment
              Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to change that. But from what I read, I'd say that all of his shortcomings are a small price to pay for having a loyal & honest spouse that cares for you.

            #22
            Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post
            As I said before, there are many issues in Coffegirl’s post. There are also many contradictions.

            She says that her husband respects her, but not even inquiring if your wife is okay when she gets hurt is the opposite of respect. It’s a negation and a contradiction. It’s a kind of jahaalat. This is basic tameez, people.

            On one hand she feels exhausted because she gets no help at home. And on the other hand she wants her husband’s company while she’s doing ghar k kaam. So she has to decide. Does she only want his company?Does she want his help. Or does she want both? Anything - company or anything. I think lacks something humanistic in him sometimes because where ever in life I have seen, as soon as you get home you go and see your mom/dad/bro sis and you don't get sakoon until you have seen them in the house whereas he will come in the house and shout out salaam and if I don't respond, he will never check up on me or ACTUALLY come upstairs to see me. he will go straight to the front room and will come a few hours later.

            It usually takes the eff-ups of 2 people for a marriage to become strained, although both parties tend to put the sole blame on each other.

            With that said, having read her post several times I won’t say that the wife is completely faultless here. It doesn’t seem like she’s even aware of her own contradictions and faults in her post.

            For one, she has to understand that yelling at person causes these invisible wounds that makes them defensive and causes them to shut down. And if she’s guilty of doing that (and it seems she is) then apologizing to her husband will be a good place to start. I already do this straightaway but I am very careful of criticising him , I try and let him know gently but he just ignores me and then it just all builds up sometimes.

            Secondly, she has to understand that the tasks that come easy to her such as dressing up her daughter are a routine for her. She does it ALL THE TIME. She’s a PRO at it. Your husband is not a pro at it, so he’s going to make mistakes, he’s going to mess up, he’s going to overlook details such as clean nose and nails and ears that she, as a mother, notices all the time because she is around her daughter more. And, NO, just because he's had more than 20 years of experience dressing himself up doesn't mean that he will be equally expert in dressing up a child.


            Having said the above, she has to understand that he will be able to perform some tasks better than others. So, she has to adjust her expectations. Don’t expect him to be a pro at dressing up the kid. Don't expect him to be a pro at all the things that you (as a mother) have been doing every day and that are second nature to you. But maybe there are other tasks that he can better manage. Sometimes you can't have it all and you have to take what you're getting.

            If you do have a problem with the way your husband did something, then you need to express that in a caring way and he’ll be more receptive. Be a little flirty about it if you have to. Talk him up and praise him when he does do something around the home to help you. Encourage him, don’t discourage him. Will try this. Cheers

            I usually start off by saying everything nice and calmly and he won't do it and then it will go on for weeks and then when I finally lose my temper, he will then turn completely stubborn and say, if you ask me nicely I will do it but then refuse to acknowledge that I have been asking for a good few weeks.

            If your parents are near by, then leave your daughter with them for a while and go out with your husband. From your post it seems as though you miss spending time with him. There is no mention of bonding time and outings. Infuse your interactions with praise and appreciation and tenderness and maybe he’ll reciprocate more of that as well. This is what I meant to say, we have lots of outings, we take our daughter out, we eat out often and it's always a great time. That side is all great, it's just the behaviour at home. It's just very slobby.

            Now if he really is that dheet as you say he is, and let’s face it, some people have this seemingly genetic aversion to household tasks, then talk to him about hiring a maid. People do it all the time. Hire a maid if you can afford it. She can even come in 2-3 times a week and help with the cleaning. That will leave you less tired so you have more energy for your child and husband.

            Unfortunately no maid culture in the UK, if I was in Pakistan - this would totally ease all my headache

            Also, the pandemic has made so many of us feel like a caged hamster running upon a wheel. People feel trapped. So, take a mini vacation for yourself if you can to recharge. It can be a little road trip or a even a smaller get away with your gal pals, a visit to the spa for a massage or a facial, or something to recharge and refresh.
            I said to him after when I had clamed down that you know, it's for your own good, if I am not around kudanahasta then you will not have to rely on anyone and won't have to listen to anyone say you are dirty/don't know how to do something and his response was that 'I am hoshiyar, dunya ke samne kar longa'

            I know many of you are gonna say, he doesn't respect me if he says that but that's the only thing we clash on so is it worth ending a marriage because of this?


            Comment


              #23
              Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post

              OhhmiiGodliiikewowwww!!! Redvelvet Ji has a very domesticated dad, TOOO?!?? That's friggin' awesome!

              Speaking of Sam, I think OP should take a page from the success story of Sam I Am by Dr. Raabertt (Baab) Seuss:

              Locate biggest chaakoo in kitchen.

              Then locate husband and stand before him. (Make sure kid is not around)

              Lift up kameez and rest chaakoo tip on belly.

              Threaten husband with soocide if he doesn't help you at least 1/10 times in the home.

              If your husband is even half the Lalloo that Bobby is, he will oblige.


              Ohhhhmiiiigod, it's so funny how RV also called you a lalloo.
              Proof is in the pudding ain’t it ? Any peaks that any of your multis scaled?

              If my kids were emotionally, psychologically and financially incapable of living and thriving on their own, I wouldn’t consider myself successful. Helping out once in a while is not domesticated. Here fathers are involved in teaching children how to swim, skate, canoe, kayak ski, snow board and scores of other activities. In my club fathers of many female athletes drive boats thousands of miles, build club houses, repair boats, install solar panels for clubs etc. Those are good fathers.

              Comment


                #24
                Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post

                Proof is in the pudding ain’t it ? Any peaks that any of your multis scaled?

                Hi there!!!!! Far be it from me to boast of my accomplishments to online strangers, even that of my multis. Humble multi that I am! But, do please regal us of the heights scaled by Shawns, Sir Knight, and company. It shall be a welcome change from hearing about Sam and her feats.


                If my kids were emotionally, psychologically and financially incapable of living and thriving on their own, I wouldn’t consider myself successful. Helping out once in a while is not domesticated. Here fathers are involved in teaching children how to swim, skate, canoe, kayak ski, snow board and scores of other activities. In my club fathers of many female athletes drive boats thousands of miles, build club houses, repair boats, install solar panels for clubs etc. Those are good fathers.
                Nobody here has equated domesticated to helping out once-in-a-blue-moon. The OP is more concerned about the domestic responsibilities and not sports and outdoors recreation. However, you can opt to create a separate thread or a blog entry to explore your off-tangent irrelevance.
                Hi Frendzz! I am a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi!

                Comment


                  #25
                  Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post

                  Nobody here has equated domesticated to helping out once-in-a-blue-moon. The OP is more concerned about the domestic responsibilities and not sports and outdoors recreation. However, you can opt to create a separate thread or a blog entry to explore your off-tangent irrelevance.
                  Putting kids thru activities is a major responsibility of parents. The new standard is that physical literacy is as important as academic literacy. I seriously doubt there is anything you excel at. People should excel at at least some facet in life. Could be cooking, painting, singing, music, swimming running etc.

                  I am wondering if they are struggling with bare minimum than when kids needs a parent to take them for activities than who would. Gora grandparents help out. Would the grand parents help? My 2 door away neighbor was grand daughter of a land developer tycoon and grandpa would wait outside to take little grand kid for hockey, watch his games etc.

                  It would be great for kid to get away from arguments and focus on swimming, soccer, skating

                  No kids activities are not recreation, they are basic requirements.

                  Comment


                  • The Last Straw
                    The Last Straw commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's a whole other thread. Take it elsewhere.

                  #26
                  Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post
                  That's a whole other thread. Take it elsewhere.
                  But domesticated Abbu should stay here! Sure.

                  BTW domesticated for men is an abusive term, it is normally used for wild animals thaught to stay amongst people



                  domesticated Add to list Share


                  Domesticated means trained to live or work for humans, i.e. pets and farm animals. For centuries humans have believe that dogs are domesticated wolves, but DNA testing reveals that they are in fact a different species.

                  Domesticated comes from domus, the Latin word for home, which is easy to remember — instead of a "roof over our heads" think of your "home as a dome." Domus gives us not only domesticated (adapted to the home or the farm), but also domestic (cooking and cleaning are "domestic" chores), a domestic (someone like a maid who works inside a home as a paid employee), and domicile (a building that serves as a home). Thus domesticated means an animal tamed to live in your home — or, as some women like to joke, a man.
                  Last edited by Bobby1; Aug 21, 2021, 04:35 PM.

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                    #27
                    Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post


                    BTW domesticated for men is an abusive term, it is normally used for wild animals thaught to stay amongst people
                    LOL. In that case domesticated is an apt label for you. A strange bird like you trying so hard to make its home amongst normal people.
                    Hi Frendzz! I am a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi of a multi!

                    Comment


                      #28
                      Originally posted by The Last Straw View Post

                      LOL. In that case domesticated is an apt label for you. A strange bird like you trying so hard to make its home amongst normal people.
                      Zahir Zakir and #minarepakistanincident is your normal people?

                      Comment


                      • SID_NY
                        SID_NY commented
                        Editing a comment
                        TLS is right, please keep things separate and relevant. Open another thread for a new topic

                      #29
                      Women never have a day off, it's work every day and taking care of the family every day. Males can take several days off of work, and do nothing at all, males can have a Sunday off or an entire weekend off, even from they physical jobs they still have rest in between. Females can't, not even 1 day of doing nothing at all. Taking care of children and doing the household plus having a job, is exhausting too. A desk job, especially a call center one, can be very exhausting, especially mentally. I've done both, I worked in a lab, although sometimes I filled in reports of the results of (chemical) tests, there was no real desk task involved. I also had temporary jobs in production lines. Yet, to me personally, those physical jobs weren't less exhausting than the call center jobs I had in customer service. You deal with the worst side of people in customer service work! (and coffeegirl, I feel for you having to do that) Every conversation is filled with a different kind of person and emotion, you have to adjust your own emotions and tone of voice for every different kind of call you have to handle, every few minutes, you have to 'on' all day long, very often it's not just people asking for information or help, but angry people blaming you for mistakes of others, yelling at you, insulting you on a personal level, even though you are trying to help them. All this can be mentally exhausting and takes away a lot of energy of many people. I'm grateful that at the moment, I don't have that job anymore! I even started searching for a physical job again so I wouldn't have do to call center work anymore.

                      Imagine doing call center work, all those phone calls which you have to handle, quickly one after another. Like in a production line, they watch how many minutes you spend on a call, you are only allowed to spend a certain amount of time per call. Contrary to what many people think, it's not an 'easy' job and certainly not a relaxing desk job. Then after finishing this work, you still have a lot of things to take care of at home, appointments for you child, taking care of your household, doing the groceries and cooking. And having a little child, there is literally no time to really relax. You are busy all the time. Coffeegirl has no Sundays off, no weekends off of doing nothing, because there is always her child to take care off and there is always the cooking to do and always the cleaning up to do, all by herself. And when her husband helps making more mess at home, instead of at least cleaning up his own mess, it doesn't help at all.

                      Yes coffeegirl isn't perfect, no human is. yes, the yelling doesn't help. Of course there should be understanding from both sides. But the people claiming that her husband should keep doing what he does now because he has a physical job, are typical . . . I see many desi males, even when they work less hours or when they don't have a physical job, doing next to nothing at home. There is still a lot pressure on females to do everything, even if they have a full time job, they are the ones who have to cook and clean after a full day of work. Nobody expects that of males. And after coffeegirl is done with her call center wok and starts her work at home of cleaning etc, that is physical work too, btw.

                      It's time to rethink the roles of males and females. I believe the husband of coffeegirl isn't a bad person, but a product of his cultural upbringing. And unfortunately, he isn't the only one. They do need have a talk about what both of them need from each other. Coffeegirl, I hope you and your husband will let go of cultural boundaries, forget what both of your families have said about gender roles and help each other. Is it possible that someone is filling his ears with nonsense like 'you are the man, you shouldn't take care of the child, you shouldn't go in the kitchen' etc? Forget about what other people will say. You need to give each other what you need, listen to each other. Perhaps he can agree to do some chores on the days when he doesn't have to work. Perhaps he can buy groceries, vacuum clean the home, I don't know. Find balance in the chores, and in other areas too. He has to make you feel protected and that he cares about your needs too, so when you hurt yourself, you can tell him that what really hurts is your heart that he can't even ask if you're okay, maybe he doesnt realise this. Perhaps this is how he grew up. And perhaps you feeling his doesn't care if you're okay by not helping you out. How about both doing housework? You can do the dishes together and spend time at once. Only by talking to each other, gently, and understanding what you both need from each other, will change this.
                      Well . . .

                      Comment


                        #30
                        ......... I believe the husband of coffeegirl isn't a bad person, but a product of his cultural upbringing. And unfortunately, he isn't the only one....
                        this

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