Girls Dance

[k2pk]

Assalamu alykum

question...there is a show put on by the Pakistani students at my university, they have a slide show about pakistan, a small play, a fashion show and a girls dance...some people do not attend the show becauce of the fashion show but mostly people do not attend because of the dance. This show is presented inorder to represent Pakistan and its culture, but it should be in the limits of Islam, but is it, what do you guys think?

sidenote:ironically the coreographers of the dance are not Pakistani!

[k2pk]

well, I am assuming that noone has an opinion on the situitation or that the original post was somehow overlooked by everybody, so I will respond, to myself...

I believe that Pakistan and Pakistanis are people who have their own distinct culture which brings us our unity and this is different(and far superior ) than indian or western ideals and practices. So by parading our muslim/pakistani sisters onstage, for complete starangers to take pleasure in as a form of entertainment, bothers me. I have never seen this happen in Pakistan and hope that it never does happen but we need to protect our modesty, sometimes it is all we have. Well that is what I believe and that is all I can say since there is no argument against this!

[Mr Fraudia]

From a religion point of view, it is definitely incorrect.
I dont know how you thought that this stuff did not happen in Pakistan. Movies, stage shows, music shows..all have it.,,all the way down to mehndi events.

[Arooj]

A.A
(havn't been here..neither ignored yr post)
oh wah wah kya nick hai..k2pk..
oh yeah the show..naaaw
it's not within the limits of Islam http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
and neither is our media (the very pakistani media) lekin NO one questiones that (well not the "practical" questioning part)

Urghh our comunity is kaaafi tangdill,
we can sit'n and get entertained by other's sisters...lekin jabb apni baari ati hai to;
NOOOO WAY! Hum bhigi billi ki tarrah pitche hatt jatain hain...
(not coz of Islam, but coZ of the threat we feel)
You see in reality we are very reserved and conservative...or less practical, we don't like to stand out that much...instead of supporting ppl who do make things happen we chose to ban things..coZ it's simpally easier!
This mentality of pakistanis made them perhaps not attend the show, they prefer molding the culture and present it as they want it to be.....not as it is!
GOD, IDEALISING is iNN again!!!

Arre comaaan logo get realistic..
you said
"This show is presented inorder to represent Pakistan and its culture, but it should be in the limits of Islam"
..okay throw away the naiv puNn, and tell me IS OUR CULTURE STILL WITHIN THE LIMITS OF ISLAM?
*pardon moi* but have you been to Pakistan lately?
Trust me the religion is dissapearing totally,
so why sooo "AFRAID" of showing the the cards (reality)???
Arre jabb bhaans hi nahi hai, to kesi bhanseri??? huh????
I'm reapeting ppl..we need to come out of the ideal world...and get more down to earth....either we should have guts to stop every (non Muslim activity) or simpally get use to watch in DA MIRROR...lekin we can always ignore.....and that was what happened to the ppl who didn't show up!
(I'm sure not all of them are good practising muslims -probabbly including ppls big egos)
*chickeeeeen....they think they're preventing behne to go on stage and doing namaish- but NOP, jo gaandh bharrah hoa hai- woh samne zuroor aeyga!

you also said;
"I believe that Pakistan and Pakistanis are people who have their own distinct culture which brings us our unity and this is different(***and far superior***) than indian or western ideals and practices".

-well dear k2 (ka) pakistan (nice add )
I'm sooooo sorry to dissapoint YOU..but yr kinda behaviour "pakistan ko le doba hai"
arrrrre which culture are you going on about huh???? Nothing is original yaar, It's a miXture of all other cultures, It isn't distinct anymore..well not that I have seen!
(Indian+western+cave ages - Islam =pk)

...I hate to say it, lekin humara culture
doo aane ka nahi raha!
*it's opressing women in poor comunities, encouraging violence and so much more, which I don't feel like going into*
and DON'T tell ke it all happnes in the limit of Islam....
*loooool* If you REALLY think that Pakiland's culture is FAR superior and different than the Indians then I don't know what to do with U jii...!!!!!
Pakistan got "SPLITT" culture, the overclass is following the west, the Middle\underclass is losing it...the common thing is that they all are getting away of Islamic practices...lekin the SMART ones are sticking to Islam...majority are being more and more ignorant..their identity is lost-----
"that's why we hear about fashion shows and gals dance program being part of a Pakistani cultural show in the first place"
*hint; k2 pls drop by Gym-khana, ck1\2,Holyday inn, neXt time yr in Lahore..just some stuff to open your eyes about OUR modesty concept....

UmMm I personally don't see any prob with the show....probabbly coZ I have been over fed with pakistan's "ganda" culture
I have a job where I get to arrange fashion shows...so maybe I'm a little into it myslef,
I think It's great with a show like the one yr talkin about k2pk, maybe it will help other ppl to understand Pakis better

Listen I'm not generalizing..It is based on things which I have seen and oberserved.

Hey it is nice that you don't like the idea of sisters parading on stage...just keep yr spirit up and I hope you have just as "convincing" views about other Islamic matters
Remember you said ke
"there is a show put on by the "Pakistani" students at my university"
So what if the coreographers are non pakistanis...lekin cheez to pakistani hai na!

Listen I'm not generalizing..It is based on things which I have seen and oberserved.
our haan, I'm not an anti pakistani larki...
I love PAKI-DESH and go there as much as I can...although it's culture suX and scare me big time....log dillon ke badshah hain...*some of them*
Yeah I feel dragged towards that country, lekin just bcoz of my family'n friends...and beside apne log----wah ji wah!!!
*tauba...dubattah ser per rakhne per hanstain hain...* LANAT HAI!
Lekin moulk jesa bhi hai-humra hai right???

Ohhhh God...this must be my loooongest poooooost....(Aroooooj bhaaaaag)
Hey you got 1 single argument against UUUU....not bad huh?....abb khoushhh?
Waslam...take care
ciao
boiiiiiii boiiiii

[Arooj]

ohhh (damn) I thought I was the 1rst one replying here http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif guess I used tooo much time in responding to k2's posts (hour or so)
----arre arre Mr fraudia aap kahan se aaaa tappke?
yepppp agree Fraudz its like;
*daaaaaaah* ufcourse it exist!!!!
boiii again

[k2pk]

Well I am glad to see that people did respond, thank you Fraudz and Arooj, I really appreciate your time!

Okay Arooj, you said "okay throw away the naiv puNn, and tell me IS OUR CULTURE STILL WITHIN THE LIMITS OF ISLAM?" and "Nothing is original yaar, It's a miXture of all other cultures, It isn't distinct anymore..well not that I have seen!
(Indian+western+cave ages - Islam =pk)"
I do not agree with what you think about Pakistani culture...it SHOULD be within Islam, not just a mixture of other cultures without regards to the correctness of it, and we should not settle for being second best at it!!!! and you are right "...I hate to say it, lekin humara culture
doo aane ka nahi raha". So shouldn't we chance that!!!

And if we are to change and become better people, we have to be willing to part with the unislamic ideals we sometimes carry. What we do now determines if we get to jannat or not, so why take chances now?
Everyone makes wrong choices and decisions, but if we accept them as correct, we are declining as 'acha loog'. I think the dance was wrong because it was not permissable in islam regrardless of what happens in pakistan we know what is and isn't correct, the students had an obligation to show Pakistan's culture in the best light possible, it should not have occured, Islamically speaking.

The males need to lower their gaze...but how can you expect this to occur when there are females dancing on stage. I am not saying that we need to or even can become the best possible people out there, but we should try to better ourselves!

but I did like your quote "GOD, IDEALISING is iNN again!!!"--it is very true, but how are we to move forward and become better Islamically if we do not even do this?

"..we need to come out of the ideal world...and get more down to earth....either we should have guts to stop every (non Muslim activity) or simpally get use to watch in DA MIRROR...lekin we can always ignore.....and that was what happened to the ppl who didn't show up!"-yeah we can always ignore what we don't believe to be correct but then you won't be able to change anyone's view on the situitation by hiding from everthing you don't see eye to eye with...

okay enough, i have to go to class so, will come back later!!!

no offense!

[k2pk]

You can only change yourself but you cannot just stand there and not express your view!

[atcha batcha]

k2pk

Well, what's happening at your university is further evidence of how we muslims have completely forgetten about our religion. There's no question that a girls dance is completely outside of the boundaries of Islam. I really don't know what the girls were thinking. Then again, it appears as though the majority of the things that young muslims do these days is done without thinking. Pakistanis and all muslims need to realize that their religion should always come before their culture. Obviously, that doesn't appear to be happening these days.

[Salman]

always remember that the Quaid e Azam wanted Pakistan to be secular not religious.
So let the girls dance! Quaid e Azam's former parsi wife, always wore short dresses and Quaid e Azam was not opposed to that.


------------------
RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT
THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS

[kashmirigirl]

Until recently women who danced in public were prostitutes or courtesans….so of course public dancing was viewed as unrespectful and trashy….that hasn’t left our cultural mind-set.

Now a word from the moderator…..
Please refrain from making this into a discussion about the religious correctness of the original topic. If you choose to…. then it will be moved to religion. Thanks.

[k2pk]

inshalla' when we are tempted to stray, we will know what is right and we will stay on the right path!

[Jat]

One way to solve this dilemna is to kill all the feamle. No females no girl dance. Period.

MavaN, DhiaN, bhaiN ----who needs them. Of course we do not want them to be dancing. Right? Right!

In addition, women are always inferior to men. They are like the slugs who should be stepped upon. Right? Right!

Come on and wake up bhra sahib? Which gutter did you crawl from? It better not be Punjab. Otherwise I denounce to be a Punjabi from my next breath onwards.

You, being a man, can do what do you like. What is wrong with the girls? They are also creatures of the same God who made you.

If you are so shortsightedness, I am not even sure that deserve to go to a unviersity let alone graduate from one. Get out of the well you have been living in. There are a lot of bigger oceans (forget about the Bay of Bengal, it is only a sea) and a lot of big fish to fry. You thought that the sardines were the biggest fish in the world?

No No my friend. Do not take it as an offence. I am just trying to wake you up to the realities of the twenty first century. That is the century where women and men are equal. Really. Where we need graduates like yourself to set the path of civilization and religion straight.

Incidently, do not use the English letters and numbers such as k2pk when expressing your radical opinions. Why not be a man and express your full name. So that we know who is talking from the sixteenth (16th not 21st) century.

Shukria.

[Nova]

Dance is music expressed through body....and we all love the joy and harmony expressed through music..
I am no expert on religion (although I have more information about it than some ppl who believe , they are)so wont comment of islamic teachings on the subject , or prevailing arabic culture of the time , which must have infkuenced the interpretations of these teachings...moreover Paki culture is more than just Islamic culture...
Paki culture has heavily borrowed from the more deep rooted, greater indian culture of the subcontinent, evolved over much longer period of time..and dancing is a big part of it...Actually dancing is present in all the origonal cultures..Our dances are great, delicate movements, subtle hints, on one hand, and explosive energy of bhangaras,,I love em all,,and I think we all should be freer to enjoy them , and actually learn it to conserve this form of art..
Kg pointed out one of the reasons of our fixed dislike for the performers...so what do you do .eradicate dancing at all, or accept it for everyone...I vote for later..
k2pk,
Man you are lucky , you got the chance to see pretty desi woman , in traditional dreesing , dancing and smiling,, wish I could have been there....
( and yes I would love it even more if my daughter was part of it)

[k2pk]

Well well well, looks like mr jat is a little ticked!!! But mr jut, I will not fall to your level by assuming certain things about you except your threshold for anger, but I will present again my idea of Pakistan so it can be clear for you inshalla'...

I never said or think that women are 'inferior' or 'slugs' or 'should be killed'(as you put it); I mean really, how stupid is that!!!But I do agree with you when you say 'MavaN, DhiaN, bhaiN ----who needs them. Of course we do not want them to be dancing. Right? Right!'Yes, the answer is right, would you like it if your mother was dancing up on stage as a form of entertainment or pleasure for men?I am not going to assume your answer but for me, the answer is NO! I mean there are many more important and fulfiling thing for them to do, most women in our society are the pillars and foundation of the family, not someone who should be admired because of her 'hip jolts' or 'sensual movements'

And as you even said '...You, being a man, can do what do you like. What is wrong with the girls? They are also creatures of the same God who made you...", I really have no argument against that and so I cannot fathom where you would think that I would not believe the above to be true! And though women are equal to men, some ignorant males think they are far superior to females, and when the opportunity presents itself, these males only look out for their own needs, taking pleasure at their expense!

To your comment, '...Come on and wake up bhra sahib? Which gutter did you crawl from? It better not be Punjab. Otherwise I denounce to be a Punjabi from my next breath onwards...', find yourself a new place to call home because my gutter is Lahore and I am very proud to be Punjabi, Pakistani and especially Muslim !!!

Oh and incidently mr jat, if you go to my profile(I think it is the one marked 'who'), you can follow a link to my 21st century homepage and find out all the information you request about me!!!

Though I could say more, inshalla' you mr jat, and all of us will learn that the beauty in modesty!

Allah-hafiz

[k2pk]

Well Nova, I too wish I knew alot more about our great religion but we can only strive to do more inshalla'

Okay, Nova to your question and opinion "...so what do you do .eradicate dancing at all, or accept it for everyone...I vote for later...", No, you do not eradicate dancing! It is a form of art and entertainment! But women should not dance infront of men! Do people not see the errors behind it?
Inshalla' your daughter will be a great dancer, but I hope she has enough wisdom to keep her beauty away from 'non-maharams'

And there is more to life (at least for me) than getting "...the chance to see pretty desi woman , in traditional dreesing , dancing and smiling..."