Dowry, a necessity or an evil

[msaqibj]

Hello all:
I have been thinking about this for while and could not decide what would be better to say about the status of dowry. I have talked to a few people about this and got the different views about dowry. A group of people (which includes a fair number of girls too) insisted that dowry is a right of the girl to get from the parents but on the other hand there are people who think that the dowry is an evil being practiced in our society. Both sides have number of evidences and examples to prove their views. I have very clear, specific and strong view about the dowry for myself which I can not insist to enforce on the others. That is why I decided to bring this topic to the forum and get the idea of the folks in here. Please be specific and talk only on the pros and cons of the dowry other than cursing the society.

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****I am a jeweler, I set the significance of the jewels and throw the insignificant into the trash, these are my Quality Standards****

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited February 20, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited February 20, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited February 21, 1999).]

[Nova]

msaqibj,
yaar itna mushkil nick , aur phir itnaa ghussa subha subha,!!
restructuring of cultural evils is a necessasity now because of its extent.
In our society where, average person is crushed under economical pressures anyway,and ingeneral possess little more than essential for life , taking a big chunk out to marry daughter is un acceptable...Its not the right of offspring , be it male or female , to get parents possesions...parents are obligated to bring you up with love, and educate you , but it stops there.
I think when institutions degenerate to this point ,and are cause of this much grief , they have to be overhauled , sometimes a bit radically...
I for myself have decided that I wont accept any dowry,at all.

[hmcq]

similar to the extravagent marriage cermonies we ahve.. dowary is just an extra headache for the parents... no wonder there is such a great demand on people to ahve male children... I for one when getting married will not be looking for dowry or an extravagent marriage.... it would be much better if that money was instead sent to charity...

[queer]

hi msaquibj,
i dont know much about dowry, but i find Ur quality control quite interesting,i have got a suggestion ;-) .Instead of the trashcan,why dont u send me the insignificant jewels? ;-)

[JAK]

Dowary is only good when it is given by the parents to their children without any compulsion / demand and within their resources without unnecessary heavy burden as a gift to the newly wed.

but it becomes a curse when opposite happens and in most cases this is the real life.

Now how to change it is really difficult because i have seen that people making big claims were proven dumb when the occasion comes and variuos reasons were offered to justify the action.

This really needs a large scale educational campaign. But How????????????

[msaqibj]

Nova:
I liked your answer but how can we stop this if it is an evil or how can we manage it if it is a necessity?
HMCQ:
I understad what are you saying and I think we need some more people like you who could promise that they would struggle to eradicate this from our society if it is an evil
Queer:
Why agree for something less yaar, why did not you ask for the significant ones, I would have given you the significant ones, but you did not ask for it.

Jak: Again, how can we get rid of this if it is an evil? One more thing Jak, yes it is difficult but "Is it immpossible?"
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****I am a jeweler, I set the significance of the jewels and throw the insignificant into the trash, these are my Quality Standards****

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[hmcq]

I dont think its impossible to eradicate.. all we need is to discuss it more openly and not hide it under the bed..(just like other women/minority issues amongst other)... and this forum may be a start... for me I guess i am a bit lucky as my dad refused dowry and so i dont have a ton of cultural values hanging over my head .. My small effort at removing this evil is that when ever a discussion has gone to the issue of marriage, i always voice my opnion that they should be less extravagant and less wasteful.. i dont know how effective its been but at least people have had to talk about it... and hopefully learnt something!!!

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Smile at the world and the world will smile back at you

[Achtung]

The pracitice of providing dowry seems to be one of those things whose origins were wed in good intentions, but later became corrupted through social-cultural factors. I agree with hmcq, we shoud talk about issues like this one more openly and look for areas of mutual understanding.

[JAK]

Nothing is impossible in this world as long as one wishes to achieve it.

Social problems can be solved only when the people at top made an example that this should be followed in this particular way. In Pakistan Shalwar suit suddenly become popular when the president announce it as a govt. dress and all have to wear it. But despite the ban on dowary by govt at one time and now on wedding dinners / lunches it is still being practised, why?? simply because those who have passed these laws are not obeying it themselves.

The common people can stop it to some extent but not on national level. In one family a son can refuse to accept dowary and lessen the burden of bride's family but in the same family when daughter has to be married her suiter's family demands for the dowary, so what to do in that case???

Yes we can and should discuss it more openly but unless any serious effort from govt is invloved it will remain very difficult to change the attitude.

[NYAhmadiX]

Perhaps a simpler solution will be to let the Girl and the Boy decide it (without any societal and parental wishes/pressure), but I think that is too much to ask. If both Boy and Girl do decide to get married without dowery, they should be prepared to hear Insults in STEREO.. Father yelling in one ear "Oay Haram-Khora tu bara Angraiz banda see, Oay eik Vespay day nall key Farak pay Jana See?" and mother yelling in the other "Oay main Teno aapna Doodh Nayee Bakhshan Gee "

[msaqibj]

NY:
To some point I agree with you. Do you think this would solve the actual dowry problem (if it is an evil) in our society?
Your suggestion sounds more like a dream than a solution for our society, isn't it?

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[hmcq]

JAK
remember that the storm is formed out of tiny drops of water. although it is faster to change when the people in the spotlight change thier ways. but it is the ordinary people aka the drops of water who really matter in the end. revolutson starts from the bottom up ...

if there are changes in the common people its effects will be felt at the top as well.. and it will also be a more stable change ...

[Shirin]

Dowry has no place in Islam. Muslims (men) are expected to provide Meher, but even that can be carried to extremes, depending on the society in which they life. It becomes a cultural thing.
No civilised man will ask for a dowry. The concept of dorwy among *some* Hindus exists because they give the girl her share of the heredity when she is married and has no right to inherit upon the death of her father. They are thus "paying her off". Unfortunately this practise has become widespread among muslims who use this as an excuse not to give the girls a share of their inheritance.

My father always told me, "We are not giving you a dowry. What we want we give to YOU as a gift, and your greatest gift from us has been your education". I think many parents don't want to spend on girls education because then they will also have to spend on dowry.... maybe even more because her husband will be even more "educated".....

One of the main sources of grief for women comes from the propagation of this idea by other women, i.e. the mother in law and sisters in law. Perhaps a little more real education all round will help us all to get over this.

[This message has been edited by Shirin (edited February 25, 1999).]

[azhar]

As Shirin says, Dowry has no place in Islam - it is something that has been inherited from the Hindu so called "civilisation". It has now become a cultural thing so deeply imbedded in our Pakistani marriage system. I for one am totally against it and when I was married we as a family decided to refuse any dowry. The problem with dowries is that it becomes a case of families trying to out do each other - for example if one family gave 1 lakh rupees as a dowry then they automatically set a precedence for the other families - they need to give more to show how much they love their daughter and to prove how wealthy they are.

[msaqibj]

hmcq: I agree with you and I strongly support your idea that we should discuss these topics more openly and frequently.
When I started this thread, I had an Idea that this would give a chance to people to step forward and guys would announce that they would not demand any dowry and gals would announce that they would try to stop their parent from unnecessary spending during wedings. I am not quite fail I see there is a number of the people who are ready to atleast try to stop this practice (if it is an evil)in our society.

Shirin and azhar: I agree with you guys that dowry has become an unnecessary burdan on the girls parents but I do not agree with you that dowry do not have any place in Islam. Dowry does have place in islam if we go by islam and do not go by traditions.

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