Male glorification rituals- Anybody heard of it?

[Achtung Hasta la victoria siempre! Find all posts View Profile Close Achtung]

A friend sent me this little snippet, its from the New York Times (March 6, 1999), thought some of you might find it interesting:

When One Culture's Custom Is Another's Taboo

By BARBARA CROSSETTE

In Maine, a refugee from Afghanistan was seen kissing the penis of his baby boy, a traditional expression of love by this father. To his neighbors and the police, it was child abuse, and his son was taken away.
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This is all I got, did anyone else read this article or does anyone know what happened to the boy? Was he returned? Does anyone know anything about this practice - its the first I heard of it - is it prevalent in parts of Pakistan too?

[haqqani Find all posts View Profile Close haqqani]

Achtung !
Yar ye aap ko kiya ho gaya he.
AAp to ache bahle aadmi the or acche mozoat per likhte the. Yu is taraf tawaji kese but gayi he.
Kuch or taraf Tawajo dein.
Ye sab to hota he rahta he.

[Guest Close Mahnoor]

Achtung Jee,
I agree with Haqqani....waqaee app ko kaya hogaya hay........
Ajee app tu baree achee achee batain kartay thay.....
Janab this world if full of this stuff....jin bataon ki kami hay woh kiya karain...
Nothing can be done about these things.....just don't know where this world is heading towards.

we can only pray
MOON

[Achtung Hasta la victoria siempre! Find all posts View Profile Close Achtung]

Holee...

I'm a bit embarrased now. I didn't mean to offend anyone by this post, but it seems to be having that effect. I also didn't mean to cast any negative light on my own personality.

The reason I posted it here was out of sheer curiousity. I had never heard of this practice and was hoping to find out if it is a myth or a reality, if it indeed is a cultural practice or something this man made up in defence of his actions.

On another note I don't personally see anything wrong with the mans actions. If his intentions were to show affection for his new-born baby, I see nothing wrong with what he has done. And certainly do not support the removal of his child. His actions were in striking contrast to those of a "pedophile", he didn't recieve any sexual gratification from his acts. He was merely showing his love for his child. The child, in my opinion, should be returned. The father was unaware of the stigma placed on such actions in the US. If he new otherwise he wouldn't have acted in the manner in which he did (not to say there was anything wrong with how he acted).

Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I'm so close to removing this thread...if anyone has any more objections (at all) I'll gladly edit it and remove it.

Mahnoor and Haqqani: Nothing has happened to me, I'm the same person, guess my curiousity got the best of me. But from your posts it seems as though you think that the removal of the child was warranted. I disagree, I think thats why I didn't think twice before writing the post. I just assumed that most people would disagree with the actions of the Maine authorities. I don't see anything shameful in the actions of this man. Particularly if they are merely cultural practices, which obviusly do not transgress the rights of the child, nor do they harm the child in any way (I'm sure he won't be having psychological trauma at an older age because his father showed him affection as an infant - if the practice continued as the child grew older I would have a problem, but that doesn't seem to be the case).

Achtung

[kashmirigirl Find all posts View Profile Close kashmirigirl]

I’ve never heard of this in Pakistan. I’ve only heard of this custom through Fatima Mernissi’s book "Beyond the Veil" She describes the introduction to sex in morocco for men.

…..One of the common games played by adult females with a male chid is to get him to understand the connection between sidi (master) and the htewta (genitals)…
. ….. The kissing of the child’s penis is a normal gesture for a female relative who has not seen him since his birth. She may also state god protect the man. The child’s phallic pride is enhanced systematically, beginning in the first years of life. And as a boy matures, the fact that men have privileges such as polygamy and repudiation, which allow them not only to have multiple sexual partners but also to change partners at will, gives him the impression that society is organized to satisfy his sexual wishes….

Though this does bring up an intresting point...the image of dessi/muslim's in society.

[hmcq Whats Up Doc? Find all posts View Profile Close hmcq]

kash girl

And as a boy matures, the fact that men have privileges such as polygamy and
repudiation, which allow them not only to have multiple sexual partners but also to change partners at will, gives
him the impression that society is organized to satisfy his sexual wishes….

LOL.. that does remind me of some desi people I know .... Anyway the rest of the practices are certainly most amusing... had not heard of them before... of course... it also brings up the question "is the male socitey making males what they are , or is it the lack of change by women in following thier traditions when it comes to thier male kids even though they know the same tradition punishes them to be second class citizen"....i wonder which has the bigger effect.....would be most interested in knowing other poepels view on this


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Smile at the world and the world will smile back at you

[Nova Find all posts View Profile Close Nova]

Achtung,
Interesting topic..why embarrassed yaar...you say what you wanna say , and give others, who get offended by it, the responsibility to grow up.
Well , ppl differ in interseting ways,,,personally I hadnt heard of it before..I saw a documentary about africa where wooden penises were displayed in the temple..and virgins got the "right of passage", after well..eh..using them in ritualistic ceremonies.
Huge stone penises are discovered in south america , that are thought to be used for worship...
However , in rome you do what romans do, The Afghan gentleman should have familiarised himself with the local practices.
kashmirigirl,
Thank you so much for your input , and more than that, for giving an example to desi woman that anything can be, and should be discussed. Its the perversion in the mind of the reader that makes anything offensive..
I again , wasnt aware of such practices in middle east , but am not surprised in least bit....When a strict system (odd mix of religion and culture, in this case) does not allow expression of normal human urges, ppl develop culturally sanctioned , ways to vent it...

[Jack Handy Find all posts View Profile Close Jack Handy]

Even Hindu mythology deals with erotic sexualitry - the Ajanta & Ellora caves on the Western Ghats and the shiv-linga and its various derivatives..

But most cultures had fertility rites of passage for females... are archaic artifacts of a bygone era..

what is mmore widespread in Sudan , yemen, Egypt and other African countries is cliterdectomy - the surgical removal of the clitoris. This is a pre-islamic practice that is hideous to say the least. WHO alongwith the affected countries has launmched a worldwide campaign to elimnate this practice.

[kashmirigirl Find all posts View Profile Close kashmirigirl]

Hmcq good point.

There are women raising sons who think that way.
However, a mother’s influence can only do so much, especially as men mature and the society is gender separate one.

Plus women gain power in those countries through their sons….the influence they have over them.
I think that hinders them from straying to far from traditional roles.

Nova

Thank you.



[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited March 09, 1999).]